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Author
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Topic: String Tension Again>what gauges?
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Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 23 March 2005 10:57 AM
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Ok I get a ton of Emails; mainly about Sho-buds and Marlens, and I welcome the chance to help of course>no worries.
Many of the emails are trouble-shooting; why this isn't doing that and how to get this or that(you get my drift) and most everytime the answer is "String gauges". Everytime they tell me what String gauges they are using; it is 99% of the time; the gauges designed for a Emmons or Zum or any long scale Pedal steel(over 24" scale).
They said; well that's what came in the pack of pedal steel strings I bought; or that's the string gauges I've always use.
Folks the Sho-bud and Marlen and MSA and Fulawka(and possibly the steel YOU are playing if you just measure it..ha) are a 24" scale; which is a shorter scale than the other popular pedal steels; that most string packs gauged towards. Having the proper gauge strings for a shorter scale pedal steel is important for string tension/sustain and playability between unison pulls and the texture of strings to get the full range of sound and string separation.
The Jagwire string set that I have gauged are specifically for that. Danny Hullihen(God bless him) gave me the opportunity to gauge a set of strings that I prefer; because everyone knows I play a 24" scale Sho-bud and previously a 24" Fulawka. Folks have wondered how come my steel sustains longer than their same steel guitar> "String Gauges" I say.
"How do you get strings to pull and sound so evenly together"> String Gauges I say..ha..and so on. quote:
But Ricky; Lloyd plays a Sho~bud and his string gauges are different from yours
Yes that's true; and it's because Lloyd's LDG is a very very special one with a longer scale than the normal Sho~bud...ah....ha..
So please take this as brotherly advice> Use the proper string gauges for the scale length of your pedal steel and all the sudden; everything will work perfectly  
http://pedalsteelmusic.com/strings.html#rd
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Ricky Davis
Rebel™ and Ricky's Audio Clips
www.mightyfinemusic.com
Email Ricky: sshawaiian@austin.rr.com
[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 23 March 2005 at 11:02 AM.]
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Mike Wheeler
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 23 March 2005 12:46 PM
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OK, Ricky. I read you loud and clear. the only problem is ......how do I figure out the correct guages for my Fessy's 24.25 inch scale?Is there a chart or formula somewhere? ------------------
Every day is a Great day,
Mike
(aka Sideman) |
Lee Baucum
Member From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier
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posted 23 March 2005 01:35 PM
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Mike - I think just about all of the standard sets of strings are gauged for 24.25 inch scale guitars.Lee, from South Texas |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 23 March 2005 01:56 PM
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Yes Mike; Lee pretty much answered your question.
I would go with the Tommy White or Russ Hicks set; or the Lloyd Green set for stainless.
Ricky |
CHIP FOSSA
Member From: Monson, MA 01057 U.S.A.
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posted 23 March 2005 02:52 PM
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Ricky,How do you exactly measure the neck scale. It is the length of the neck we're referring to here, yes? And does a 1/2" really make that much differnce? Thanks... cf |
db
Member From: Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA
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posted 23 March 2005 03:01 PM
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There are string gauge calculators out there . . .
(entering; pitch, octave, scale length & string type for equalizing/optimizing "tension"). . .
Like: http://www.greenmanhumming.com/html/StringCalc/stringCalcX.html
or simple guides like b0bs':
http://www.b0b.com/infoedu/gauges.htm ------------------
Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3[This message was edited by db on 23 March 2005 at 03:12 PM.] |
CHIP FOSSA
Member From: Monson, MA 01057 U.S.A.
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posted 23 March 2005 05:04 PM
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bump |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 23 March 2005 05:15 PM
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Chip you measure from the top center of the middle roller(nut) to the top center of the finger(bridge).
As there are many variables in the sound and sustain of a instrument; The scale length is one of them for sure and yes there is quite a bit of difference by every 1/4" when your pulling certain string tensions with a pulling mechanism.
Ricky |
Lem Smith
Member From: Fulton, MS. U.S.A.
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posted 23 March 2005 05:15 PM
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Chip,
You measure from the center of the rollernut to the center of the top of the changer finger.Thanks for the string info Ricky. I'm going to try some of your signature sets. I'm currently using some Jagwire JayDee Maness strings, which do sound good, but I don't get the sustain that I should with them...at least to my ears anyway. Lem |
Grant Johnson
Member From: Nashville TN
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posted 23 March 2005 06:23 PM
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I'm going to try a set out as well. I always felt like my strings may be a bit too light. This makes sense as I use heavier guaged strings on my Gretsch than my tele, which has a longer scale... |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 23 March 2005 08:39 PM
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There ya go guys; Now we're Talkin'.
You will consider it the best advice I've ever given you; when you change over.
Ricky |
Bill Miller
Member From: Gaspé, Québec, Canada
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posted 24 March 2005 04:08 AM
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My Carter has a 24 inch scale so I was just checking the owner's manual to see what string gauges they recommend. For E9 they list the following: .012, .015, .011, .014, .017, .022, .026W, .030W, .034W, .036W. I'm using those gauges except for my third string G# where I use a Jagwire .011.5 for a bit more body. This is an interesting thread and it has me thinking I should try the Ricky Davis Jagwire set to see how they work on my guitar. Until now I hadn't even realized my Carter had the 24 inch scale. I would be interested to hear some input from John Fabian regarding how this relates to Carter guitars or whether they approve or disapprove of going to heavier strings. |
CHIP FOSSA
Member From: Monson, MA 01057 U.S.A.
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posted 24 March 2005 04:15 AM
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Thanks Ricky and Lem......I used to know this exactly. years ago, but
like everything else, it got hornswaggled when life butted in. Thank ya again, ya roostahs..... "I say, ah say......that gal reminds me of the road from Houston to Dallas....no cahuves".... cf[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 24 March 2005 at 10:21 AM.] |
Lem Smith
Member From: Fulton, MS. U.S.A.
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posted 24 March 2005 04:30 AM
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You're more than welcome, Chip. I too can relate to what yer saying. I've forgotten more than I ever knew in the first place, about most things anyway!  |
db
Member From: Bethlehem, PA 18015 USA
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posted 24 March 2005 05:26 PM
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That calculator is very useful!
The only "quirk" is that you have to enter the reference pitch: 440, 880 or 220
depending on where the actual string pitch is; at, above or below A 440.
There are many string type choices: of course - plain or wound, but also Steel, Nickel, Bronze, Brass . . .etc.It is a great tool for equalizing tension on unusual tunings and different scale lengths. ------------------
Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3
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Hans Holzherr
Member From: Ostermundigen, Switzerland
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posted 25 March 2005 09:17 AM
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Here's the link to my own .xls string tension calculator: http://homepage.hispeed.ch/updowncat/string_tension.htm
For some reason, it doesn't work online. You have to save it to your hard disk first.
Sometimes it freezes Excel for unknown reasons, but when not, it's useful.Hans |
Larry Robbins
Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA
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posted 25 March 2005 03:27 PM
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Hey Ricky,
I know you dont endorse a "stainless" set but, would you suggest those same gauges in stainless?Thanks for all your help, my brother! ------------------
Sho-Bud ProII, Pro III custom,
Fender Steelking,Hilton pedal,Tut Taylor "Virginian"
[This message was edited by Larry Robbins on 25 March 2005 at 03:28 PM.]
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Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 26 March 2005 12:13 AM
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Larry> Yes.
Ricky |
Tony Dingus
Member From: Kingsport, Tennessee, USA
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posted 26 March 2005 06:20 AM
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Thanks for the info Ricky. I never thought that would effect the string gauge. Thanks again.
YOU DA MAN!!! Tony |
Jim Dunaway
Member From: Seaford, Virginia, USA
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posted 26 March 2005 07:10 AM
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Ricky, your comments may be the answer to my problem. Several months ago I decided to pull my 73 Pro I out of the attic and try to play steel again, after many years. The pickup was shot so I installed a new Jerry Wallace Truetone and Jagwire Lloyd Green strings, bought an old Nashville 400, set it all up and it sounds awful! Could the string guages be the problem? I have no idea what I used 25 years ago. Bad string rattle on 3rd and 8th strings. I can,t imagine the pickup or the amp being the problem.JimmyD |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 26 March 2005 10:54 AM
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quote:
set it all up and it sounds awful! Could the string guages be the problem?
Jim the answer to that question is NO.
There are many factors of what makes up the sound; and I wouldn't count out the other factors you listed; but there may be more> I don't know because I don't know your amp(what settings) or the pot in your volume pedal; what the truetone was wound to; what cords your using and I can think of 12 more things that would possibly inhibit the sound.
Ricky |
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