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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

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Steelin' away in the ozarks and life,
Scott
www.scottyhenderson.com

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 15 April 2005 at 08:24 PM.]

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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

   1    2    3    knee
E                  F
C            D
A       B
G  F#
E                  Eb
C
A
F

        A    B    C*   D-KL
----------------------------
1  F#       
2  G#  +A 
3  E             +F#
4  B        +C#
5  G#  +A
6  E                  -D#
7  B        +C#
8  E

*The 3rd string 'C' pedal is depressed along with:
2nd 'A' & 4th 'B' pedals for the STD 'B&C' combination.

The middle "9th"(F#) has to be pulled out because of "Palm Pedal" limitations.

The 3rd string 'D' lower could be added with great engineering effort . . .
Would it work if missing? (I noticed it was missing on B0B's chart.)

The 1st string could be alternately tuned to D# or other preference.
The 8th string could be alternately tuned to D or other preference.
They could both have a "Hipshot" De-Tuner machine for a quick change option.

What do you guys think about this?
Any suggestions on the 1st or 8th string pitches?

Thanks,
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 06 May 2005 at 06:18 PM.]

That's a nice basic E9 you got going. You could also retune the E to F# to E to F and try that, too.

Regarding the C6 setup I had before, you could actually combine the 2 raises A->B and C->D on one pedal. You also could certainly drop the low F and stick a G on top - maybe even add a 1/2 or whole step raise on that top G since you open up a pedal with the combination. Having the major triad right there is nice for old country stuff.

Regarding the lowers, I would keep the G->F# lower, and add the low E->F to the knee lever - but you would really be missing that E->Eb quite a bit in the long run.

Your E9 setup looks as useful - maybe more depending on what you like.

The "multiple raises" are all "individual pedals" for each string . . .
to be used only when necessary for the strings that are to be picked.

Which "E" changes are you speaking of here?
The lowest "E"? . . . (I was thinking of a "D" as an alternate here).

Yes. . .
Alternate tunings for the 1st and 8th strings make it accessible for different applications.
This is the area of concern for recommendations.
As well as the 3rd string lower to D#.

BTW, I am having difficulty understanding the aspects of the C6th application.
I am an E (9th or major) guy.
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 02 May 2005 at 07:51 PM.]

I am now thinking along these lines:
 
        A    B    D-KL
-----------------------
1  F#       
2  G#  +A 
3  E              -D#
4  B        +C#
5  G#  +A
6  E              -D#
7  B        +C#
8  E

What do you guys think about this revision?
Any other suggestions on the 1st or 8th string pitches?

Thanks,
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 06 May 2005 at 06:31 PM.]

After reading this thread, I'm not sure about what's possible with your mechanics. But I have a Fender 400 that I have rigged thusly, and there's a lot of music in this (especially the bottom 6 strings):

	1	2	3	4
1 F#
2 D
3 E				D#
4 B	C#			
5 G#		A	F#
6 E				D#
7 B	C#
8 E

So, pedals 1+2 are A chord over an E bass.
Pedals 3+4 are a B chord over an E bass.
Pedal 4 = major 7th chord.
Strings 4,5 with pedal 3 down, transitioning to pedal 3 up/pedal 1 down, then add string 3 = Honky Tonk Women lick.

Ideal on this guitar of mine would be knees for 3 and 4 rather than pedals.

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"From Truth, Justice is Born"--Quanah Parker-1904

Your last chart suggestion did not have a "lower-middle" F# . . .
Only the "higher" F# , that I already have on the first string here.
Have you changed your mind ? ! ?

Would you suggest that I make it a 9 string instrument with two F#s!
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 07 May 2005 at 05:59 PM.]

I really did not have a question about the low ‘E’ . . .
I know that ‘lap-steel’ players would just prefer to have the familiar 'low root' here.

The question was, "is the 'one' higher “F#” sufficient here", as it was in your chart.

I prefer the F “root lower” function (as did Jim Day) . . .
That is not in question here.
I already make the PS-67F that covers that.
I am after perfecting a workable copendant/tuning for and 8-String “Lap-Steel”
with palm pedals, for those that may prefer the D “root lower” function.

Unfortunately,
I cannot do Johns' C6th charts . . .
There is 'second' lower function on the 1st chart.
I can do only 'one' lower function.
At best, I can lower an octave pair together with a lever.
The 2nd chart has both a raise & a lower on the same (5th) string.
No can do!
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 10 May 2005 at 09:12 PM.]

The “Sacred Steel” copedant is “do-able”.
However, I would need to come up with a half-step "stop" for the 6th string D# lever.
That would be an easier thing to do here with a pedal rather than with the knee lever.
BTW . . . Are those two E’s unison on 5 & 6 ?

The other two charts have changes on the 1st and/or 8th strings . . .
As I have said before, the 1st & 8th strings cannot have change functions.
Can either of those other two charts be shifted/adjusted?
So that the 1st and 8th strings are “fixed”?

Yes, "half-pedals" are possible . . .
But, the E to F would be very difficult to execute in combination with any other pedals.
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 12 May 2005 at 06:33 PM.]

Palm -                               Knee- 
Pedals:  1     2     3     4     5   Lever: 
        B-1  'C-1'  A-1   B-2   A-2    F
-------------------------------------------
1  G#   +A 
2  E          +F#                     +F
3  B                +C#
4  G#                     +A
5  E                                  +F
6  B                            +C#
7  E

The 'C-1' pedal is cut back so that it is out of the way to operate the adjacent pedals and is only depressed along with the B-1 & A-1 for the STD "B&C" combination.

It is best to design an assembly that:
Has a "lever" function "in-between" the two "top" & "bottom" pairs of palm pedals . . .
The top B-1 & A-1 pedals are spaced apart, as well as the bottom B-2 & A-2 pedals.
This allows for independant operation.
This might explain my copedant preferences.

A top string can be added for the 8-string version here . . .
What would be your suggestion for the most usable pitch?
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 13 May 2005 at 08:45 PM.]

Palm -                               Knee- 
Pedals:  1     2     3     4     5   Lever: 
        B-1  'C-1'  A-1   B-2   A-2    D
-------------------------------------------
1  D#    
2  G#   +A 
3  E          +F#           
4  B                +C#
5  G#                     +A
6  E                                  -D#
7  B                           +C#
8  E

Again, the 1st & 8th strings can be alternately tuned to another preferred pitch.
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Dan Balde
U-12/8&5, S-7/D 3&1, S-6/E,A & G3

[This message was edited by db on 14 May 2005 at 06:22 PM.]

I would tune it to a C6 like John Poston said. Maybe add a half step raise to the lower E string to get a country sound or simple sus when you want it.