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Author Topic:   Sho Bud adjustments
Nate LaPointe
Member

From: Los Angeles, California, USA

posted 07 May 2005 11:33 AM     profile     
I was contacted by a guy who bought an old 10 string single neck Sho Bud on ebay. He doesn't play so he hired me to help him set it up and teach him the basics. Everything is working pretty well on it except I can't get pedal C to raise the 4th string E up to an F#. It only gets as far as a sharp F but not all the way to F#. How do I adjust it to make it pull further?

------------------
www.natelapointe.net

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 07 May 2005 11:50 AM     profile     
Try this first

Turn almost all the plastic tuner out,
while plucking the string,
if it was in too far,
then the string will decend in pitch with no pedal.

Then hit the pedal and tune it up to pitch.
This happens to me especially when I change strin types inadvertently.

If it still won't go all the way,
try a new string.. look at the Ricky Davis sets gauges in the forum catalog
and use the same gauges.

If this dont' work, look for a string ball or other obstruction in the changer..( you can look for this sooner too...)


If this don't work........
EMAIL RICKY DAVIS.. the master.

He may suggest removing or stretching a return spring.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 07 May 2005 at 11:53 AM.]

Nate LaPointe
Member

From: Los Angeles, California, USA

posted 07 May 2005 09:16 PM     profile     
Thanks for your reply David. This is an old simple Sho Bud(only 3 pedals, 1 lever) and there is no plastic in the changer. I can see very little to even adjust on this thing! There is nothing blocking any movement. My inexperience as a steel tech leaves me lost right now. Any other advice?

------------------
www.natelapointe.net

[This message was edited by Nate LaPointe on 07 May 2005 at 09:17 PM.]

mike nolan
Member

From: Long Island City, NY USA

posted 07 May 2005 09:42 PM     profile     
Nate,
Usually these old Sho~Buds don't change much once they are set up. If this pull worked, then suddenly stopped working, there may be a mechanical problem... something is worn out. It might be the result of putting a radically different guage string on... I always start with a new set of the correct guages before I try to set up an unknown guitar. The Ricky Davis Jagwire set that you can buy here on the forum is a good set for that guitar. If all is in order and you have the correct guage strings, then it is probable that you need to increase the pedal travel. You do that by adjusting the pedal stop. The pedal stop is located near the top of the pedal rod, where it attaches to the cross rod... (at the guitar end not the pedal end). The pedal stop is usually an allen head bolt that you can adjust to let the pedal move farther. Email me if you need a picture of a typical Sho~Bud pedal stop.
Ricky Davis
Moderator

From: Spring, Texas USA

posted 07 May 2005 09:48 PM     profile     
Nate; I can think of 15 different things; mainly because there were about 8 different pulling mechanisms/mechanics on the single sho-bud....so you would either have to show a picture of the underneath or explain what pulling system you have.
There should be a stop screw for the 3rd pedal under there; and maybe you can unscrew it some to give more distance for the 3rd pedal to travel. But if it's barrel tuners behind racks and you tune at the end plate with metal tuners you stick a allen tool in; then I may be more difficult to explain how you need to engage the barrel underneath before you tune the metal tuner; but if your also raising the 4th string a half tone on the knee lever; it gets even more difficult.
Also there should be a certain amount of tension on the lower spring to stabilize the lower section so the raise section can move freely.
Or you may be into the finger; meaning the open string is already compressed by the finger and therefore it's a chase around the block to get that right. I'm only saying this explanation because you said to David that there are no nylon tuners....so it much be barrel tuners. OOOOOr you have a Maverick; with single pulling fingers or one with cables...ha...>but you will have to explain more; or show more> then I can tell you in one sentance how to fix.
Ricky
mike nolan
Member

From: Long Island City, NY USA

posted 07 May 2005 10:12 PM     profile     
Oh yeah,
And everything that Ricky said too....
David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 07 May 2005 11:31 PM     profile     
Nate does it look like this unit in this other thread at bottom?

http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum5/HTML/010141.html



PS do NOT negate the effect of having the right string guauges on a Bud.

I just switched from some old Russ Hicks Jagwires
to some Ricky Davis set jags,
and voila my Bud went right back into working form.

Nothing against Russ's sets, but thay ain't Bud sets, Ricky's are.
The RD's ran out. I had grabbed an old set I hadn't been using since I had added 20-30 pulls.
and my E9 went COMPLETELY pearshaped.
So much so, that it was unplayable with my large copedent.

The right strings and it is just right.

Nickle
E9th Tuning C6th Tuning
----------- -----------
F# .013----------- G .012
D# .015----------- E .014
G# .012----------- C .017
E .014------------- A .020p
B .018------------- G .024w
G# .022w--------- E .030
F# .026------------ C .036
E .030 ------------- A .042
D .034-------------- F .056
B .038-------------- C .070

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 May 2005 at 03:11 AM.]

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 May 2005 at 03:12 AM.]

Nate LaPointe
Member

From: Los Angeles, California, USA

posted 08 May 2005 01:22 PM     profile     
I put a brand new .014 on the 4th string E and still does not get to an F#. The changer is far more primitive than the one in your photos David. The model number on the sticker on the guitar says 6/52. Is this guitar from 1952?? There is no allen stop screw to adjust on this rod. The ONLY allen screw availbale for adjustment is on the RKR lowering E's to Eb's. There was a little black plate that stopped the thing from traveling ALL the way but even removing that , it now hits the wood and doesn't allow it to get to the F#. I wish I had a digital camera to show you the guitar.

------------------
www.natelapointe.net

[This message was edited by Nate LaPointe on 08 May 2005 at 01:26 PM.]

David L. Donald
Member

From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand

posted 08 May 2005 02:35 PM     profile     
More primative than a rack n barrel.. HUH.

Could be a Maverick.
Does it have cables?
If it has cabels and a sort of arc piece to attach them to the pullers,
then It might need some tension taken up undernieth.
Just a guess.

Also there should be a stop for pedal travel with a set screw and stop nut,
maybe that has lossened and moved.

No pics no idea.

Ben Elder
Member

From: La Crescenta, California, USA

posted 08 May 2005 02:51 PM     profile     
While we're waiting for Ricky D. or someone more knowledgeable to weigh back in:

a) that's my (recently-borrowed) ca. 1969 Professional (if it wasn't model 6139 at the time, the later-equivalent model was) in the pics and thread David posted above.

b) I think 6152 (rather than 6/52) is a Maverick (student) model. (This bit of trivia sticks with me because I have an early '60s Gretsch amp with th same 6152 product-model number.) I'm at work now and all my old Sho-Bud flyers and catalogs are at home. Otherwise, I could say for sure.

There were two basic incarnations of Mavericks (that I'm aware of): the first (late '60s?) had solid (usually natural) maple bodies; the later had a walnut burl contact paper "finish". I had one of the natural ones years ago and the mechanism was considerably cruder than that of the 6139/Professional type--or any other pro-type model, for that matter.

I'm by no means an expert and have just gotten the Professional in hand two days ago. I'm starting a self-instructional campaign to restring, clean and adjust it to a sembalnce of playability. (This, after three years of trying to tame a D-10 ZB, a task that would have had even Gunther Gebel-Williams cowering in abject fear: "Nein! Nein! Nicht der farshtunken ZB! I take ein cage full of peestoff hungry tigers any time!" )

[This message was edited by Ben Elder on 08 May 2005 at 03:00 PM.]

Nate LaPointe
Member

From: Los Angeles, California, USA

posted 08 May 2005 04:20 PM     profile     
This has the walnut burl contact paper. No cables, just the metal rods. I don't want to file away the wood, but it's so tempting because I know it'll fix it!
Ricky Davis
Moderator

From: Spring, Texas USA

posted 08 May 2005 05:28 PM     profile     
Oh than it is a Maverick; and I'm sorry, I don't have a clue how those work> I never let them in my house.
So anyone familiar with that student model; can certainly help you better than I> as I only really know "Sho-bud" and "Marlen" and never considered the Maverick to being a real "Sho-bud".
Good luck though.
Ricky
Dave Grafe
Member

From: Portland, Oregon, USA

posted 08 May 2005 05:49 PM     profile     
Okay, Nate, yes indeed you do have a Maverick on your hands, and the funkiest of the lot at that. It should still be a playable guitar, though, so try this:

Using the tuning keys, tune the strings with the pedals down.

THEN use the allen head set screws at the changer end to tune the strings with the pedals up. For the A and C pedals you might need to experiment with the holes on the puller crossbars to get the best balance between all the changes.

AFTER you have tuned the pedals you should be able to tune your single knee with the set screw you have described.

Do keep us posted on your adventure.

------------------
Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion


[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 08 May 2005 at 05:55 PM.]

Delbert Aldredge
Member

From: Willis, Texas, USA

posted 08 May 2005 05:58 PM     profile     
DAVE GRAFE GETS A GOLD STAR!!!...he has correctly identified tuning a "push/pull" mechanism. Most student models and all early Emmons have this system.

ATTABOY DAVE!!!!!!!

[This message was edited by Delbert Aldredge on 10 May 2005 at 02:21 AM.]

[This message was edited by Delbert Aldredge on 10 May 2005 at 02:25 AM.]

Nate LaPointe
Member

From: Los Angeles, California, USA

posted 09 May 2005 12:32 PM     profile     
Dave Grafe, great suggestion, I should have thought of that myself. She's all fixed, thanks for all your help guys!
------------------
www.natelapointe.net

[This message was edited by Nate LaPointe on 09 May 2005 at 12:35 PM.]

John Fabian
Member

From: Mesquite, Texas USA

posted 09 May 2005 12:41 PM     profile     
Tune the F# with the C pedal engaged at the key head. The tune the "open" E using the midppoint adjustment screw on the end plate.

This pull-release mechanism requires you to tune the highest raise at the keyhead and the tune the "open" note at the endplate.

Lowers are tuned at the key head open and then at the endplate when activated.

Chris Allen Burke
Member

From: Signal Hill, CA

posted 11 May 2005 08:20 PM     profile     
Nate,
I am an experienced Sho~Bud repair person in Signal Hill. Call me if you need local help.

562-424-2187
Chris

Dave Grafe
Member

From: Portland, Oregon, USA

posted 11 May 2005 10:54 PM     profile     
THANKS DELBERT, I'LL HANG IT ON THE WALL RIGHT NEXT TO MY GOLD RECORD!!!

I will take your comments to be in jest, but Nate doesn't have a Push-Pull guitar, he started this post looking for help with a mystery Sho-Bud that the other 'Bud folks weren't able to help him with.

I waited in the weeds for a while and I didn't hear any Emmons fans pitching in to help him. Wish you could have been there then and I could have used the time practicing.

Pedal on

------------------
Dave Grafe - email: dg@pdxaudio.com
Production
Pickin', etc.

1978 ShoBud Pro I E9, Randall Steel Man 500, 1963 Precision Bass, 1954 Gibson LGO, 1897 Washburn Hawaiian Steel Conversion


Dave Grafe
Member

From: Portland, Oregon, USA

posted 11 May 2005 11:09 PM     profile     
Incidentally, the Sho-Bud Maverick is NOT a Push-Pull guitar at all, in fact without serious modification it is incapable of lowers altogether.

WHOOPEE, I can come back and edit my message a day later, too!

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 12 May 2005 at 07:33 AM.]

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