If I'm correct, a major/minor/aug. three-note "chord" is technically a "triad" and it has three "voicings"; ie, CEG, EGC, GCE, etc. CGE would be an "inversion", the notes are out of the natural sequence. We play lots of inversions.

A chord has four or more notes, some may be implied, such as a 13th being faked by four notes, etc. Voicings and inversions apply here also.

An inversion of C major would be any C major chord with E or G in the bass. The C in the bass would be root position.

Scrambling up the notes above the bass is a voicing. Open or closed voicings do not change the inversion. EGCE, ECGC, EGC are all 1st inversion C major chords.

At least, that's how I remember it from school.

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So with the C in the bass, it's the "0th inversion"? Doesn't sound right.

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When the tonic is in the bass, it is called the root position.

And, yes, it's kinda like the way computer guys count -- starting with 0. The zero-th inversion is called 'root position' as Jeff pointed out. A major triad has one root position and two inversions. A major 7th chord (tetrad) has a root position and three inversions. # of inversions = # of different notes in the chord - 1.

More info: http://www.rocknroll.force9.co.uk/music/theory/inversion.html

and I'll take another GIN to go along with Cohen's TONIC.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 14 June 2005 at 04:09 PM.]

Right or wrong, my college music theory teacher would say that the root position is one of three possible inversions of a triad.

Pass the target, please.

[This message was edited by Dave Grafe on 14 June 2005 at 04:53 PM.]

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With just the two basic pedals and the F lever, a steel guitarist can slide between any of the three {what?} of a major chord."

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hmmmmm....

with the third of the chord in the bass it's called a first inversion chord: so how can the root in the bass be an "inversion." I would encourage my students to write "any of the three versions of the major triad," since inversions must relate to a basic version. But that's just my zwei Pfennig.

I should have said "three versions of the major chord, since (oh man, this is getting nerdy!!) techincally a triad is "a chord consisting of three pitches, the adjacent pitches being separated by a third" (New Harvard Dictionary of Music, 1986); in the inversions there are other intervals, hence not triads.

Man! My brain hurts. Skip the dang tonic: I'm heading straight for the gin!

Dan

[This message was edited by Dan Beller-McKenna on 14 June 2005 at 05:38 PM.]

Root position: The root of the chord is the lowest note.

1st inversion: The 3rd of the chord is the lowest note.

2nd inversion: The 5th of the chord is the lowest note

Don't matter WHAT you call it, it'll still sounds the same.

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Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S-12 6x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps

[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 14 June 2005 at 07:48 PM.]

INVERSION ... "Literally, the turning upside downof a chord, interval, counterpoint, theme or, pedal point. A chord is said to be inverted when not in the root position.

CHORD ... "Any simultaneous combination of notes, but usually not fewer than 3".

VOICING ... no definition given.

VOICE ... "Separate strand of music in counterpoint or harmony, also known a "part", or more confusingly "voice part"".

Someone have the Harvard Dictionary of Music? Or other?

Arnold Schoenberg, in his Theory of Harmony teaches ""to invert" means to put the low tone of a chord or interval an octave higher [or] a high tone an octave lower while the other chord tones remain in their places". he illustrates:

with C,E,G, move the C up an octave (the third is now "in the bass")and the chord is in the "first inversion" also known as the "six-three" chord.

Now move the E up an octave (the fifth is now "in the bass"), and the result is the "second inversion" also known as the "six-four" chord.

I think Larry's got a good point: I'm gonna shuddup and go play my steel (where the world makes sense).

On a more serious note: I hope all our Northwest friends are safe and sound re tonights earthquake.

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consider the unique set { 135, 351, 513 }. Is there a word that applies to these 3 voicings and no other?

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There is no one word that I am aware of that applies to just those three. Those three combinations of notes are three possible voicings of a major triad. HOWEVER, possible voicings of a major triad are certainly not limited to those three. As Larry pointed out, you could also have 153, 315, and 531. Both 135 and 153 are root position triads. Both 351 and 315 are first inversion triads. Both 513 and 531 are second inversion triads.

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Jeff's Jazz

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 14 June 2005 at 09:56 PM.]

The 'closed' voicings are the 'cyclic permutations' of pure stacked thirds (sorry, that's a math term - it means that the characters 135 are shifted left, and the one all the way to the left is cycled around to the end, so 135 cyclically permutes to 351 which cyclically permutes to 513 which would then cyclically permute back to 135). The process of 'inverting' a chord is this idea of 'cyclically permuting' the notes, by what I have been taught. YMMV, but there is some logic to this naming convention.

Anything else, by this terminology, is an 'open'-voiced chord. I also agree with Burton that the root/inversion terminology is determined by the bottom note in the chord.

Similarly, if we considered a dom7th chord, there are three closed-voiced inversions, {135b7,35b71,5b713,b7135}, or {root position, first inversion, second inversion, third inversion}. Same deal with the cyclic permutations. Again, opening up the voices leaves much room for different voicings of each of these root-position and inverted chords.

This is just terminology, I don't get too worried about it. It's a way of communicating. The notes on the staff tell you what the chord is, anything else is an interpretation of that chord.

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Open or closed voicings do not change the inversion. EGCE, ECGC, EGC are all 1st inversion C major chords.

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Sorry Burton. I didn't notice your post, which was later confirmed by Dave Mudgett that the three voicings b0b refers to are "closed voicings". Makes sense.

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Jeff's Jazz

[This message was edited by Jeff Lampert on 15 June 2005 at 02:09 AM.]

Re six-three type chord terminology: as Michael explained, this made use of the classic terminology of the day to quickly communicate the structure being discussed/played ... sort of the Nashville notation of the time. It is however a bit ambiguous as it does not separate minors from majors and the likes.

Re computers and music: In order to make "calculations" math based as opposed to lookup table based, I use a simple system (like six-three et al) except that it is based upon halftones; R,3,5 becomes 43 ... R,b3,5 becomes 34 etc. for relative calculations. For specific calculations, the MIDI note numbers go in halftones, so the system embraces the MIDI also.

You are confusing "inversions" with "voicing." The inversion refers only to the note in the bass; it says nothing about the voicing, i.e. whether the chord in in "close" or "open" position.

I agree that an inversion is still a triad.

Here they are:
1. C Major = C E G
2. C Major 1st Inversion E G C
3. C Major 2nd Inversion G C E

Now not disputing what others have said I must correct some information previously mentioned respectfully and please take it that way. Understand I studied Music Education at the University of Tennessee back in the early 80's. The way I was taught then in 1st and 2nd year theory, the way I just presented the order is the only acceptable way of arrangements of the notes.

Use the chart presented above:

1. To build a root chord you use the
Root, third, and fifth of the chord (via)
C E G (Absolute, and the rules say you can't change this. Don't argue with me, argue with those who developed the overtone series and western music theory.

2. To build a First Inversion you take the third, fifth, and then place the root note of the chord above the fifth:
(Example)
E G C

3. To build a Second Inversion you take the fifth of the chord and then place the root of the chord and the third of the chord at the top of the chord structure in that order:
(Example)
G C E

Now why do I say this is true:

Chords are based upon harmonics and overtones. (I know bla bla musical terms)

E C G is not a Second Inversion chord because the rules say you have to sequentially work up the harmonic scale.

A Chord is only 3 Notes composed of the Name assigned to the chord:
(Example)

C E G = C Major
C Eb G = C Minor

Chord theory is an absolute and has never changed to my knowledge, but other concepts of music has. In theory year one you learn:

No Parallel 5th's can move one to another
(Example)

G-----C

C-----F

You see in the above example we are in the key of C and I'm going to F but I'm going from one fifth to another.

In year 2 you learn that you can do what you want.

Now the reason a root chord can't have 4 notes is because it would confuse musicians and that is why they established a rule that required when you go past the third note of the chord you must attach it to the end of the chord name.
(Example)
C Major = C E G
C Major 7 = C E G B

By learning the rules it allows the musician to know what notes are to be played.

You can have Root, 1st and 2nd Inversions not only in major chords but minor as well.

I hope this sheds some light on the subject.

[This message was edited by Dan Burnham on 18 June 2005 at 08:16 PM.]

Even though a root-position chord is technically not an inversion, I have often heard the entire set referred to as the "three inversions of the major triad." I think any musician, no matter how snooty, would accept that.

[This message was edited by Burton Lee on 19 June 2005 at 02:48 PM.]

"Voicing" is longer and more confusing:

"(1) The adjustment of the general tonal quality of a stringed keyboard instrument or of individual pitches to produce consistency throughout (blah, blah)." It goes on, but talks about a piano and a harpsichord and "modifying the shape and flexibility of the plectra."

The second definition begins with this sentence "The adjustment of organ pipes for proper speech, loudness, and modifying the characteristics of the mouth." Unless you are holding your bar in your mouth, I don't see how this pertains.

You always got someone in the wings that opens their mouth and instead of helping they expel their ignorance in one sentence or less.

You people are the very reason why the pros don't participate on this forum.

Don't take my word for it, ask Buddy Emmons, John Hughey, Herby Wallace. According to them you guys got all the answers there is no need for them to reply.

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Steel players do it without fretting

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