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Author
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Topic: Marlin don't sound like a Sho-bud
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Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 18 August 2005 03:38 PM
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HEY RICKY, full of questions!!!Why come this marlin don't sound like a sho-bud???
beautyful wood,strings on solid alum.pullers,keyheads almost the same!!lots of direct wood contact,Driving me crazy man!! rascal should talk,but don't . farris |
Bill Ford
Member From: Graniteville SC Aiken
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posted 18 August 2005 03:59 PM
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Farris,
Not meaning to start a firestorm but,
it ain't a Sho-Bud. What kind of pickup is in it? Try a Bud pickup,I saw a player with a Fender 1000 with a Bud pickup that had the Sho=Bud tone, I think it was the one Weldon traded for his first Bud...Looooong time ago.
Stu Basore, I think was the player.Didn't mean to ramble. Bill[This message was edited by Bill Ford on 18 August 2005 at 04:01 PM.] |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 18 August 2005 05:36 PM
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HEY BILL, no firestorm here man,i just can't see why it don't sound about the same.
They say pickups don't change much,guitar either got it or it don't. Well,i know the wood is fine,about 33yrs old. all is so good,but just don't have the sound.sure i can change pickups ect. but whats the point. pullers are all alum,not pot metal. got lots of direct contact.which i understand is suppose to be fine!!! don't know. farris |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 18 August 2005 07:16 PM
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I only ever played one Marlen, a Speedy West model. It blew away any Sho-Bud I ever laid hands on. Man, that guitar was sweet!
I think that maybe every steel guitar is different.[This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 20 August 2005 at 08:12 PM.] |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 18 August 2005 11:08 PM
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Ok Farris; let me see if I can clear your head a little and enlighten you.
First off; it's spelled MARLEN> as MAR-vin and LEoN-ard(LEN for short) designed the Marlen Custom Steel Guitars and the Speedy West Custom Steel Guitars.
Not knowing which Marlen you are speaking of(but you did say 33 years old)I would guess your talking about the old Single finger Pull-release system?
Oh and so there is more clarity in your asking> I; of course, never said a Marlen sounds like a Sho-bud...ha...>but I have always said its tone/voice is somewhere between a Sho-bud and Original Emmons; to my ears.
Ok here's how it works:
One picks the Strings and they start a vibration and are picked up by a microphone(the steel guitar pickup).
So what are the string vibrating on and what is that material and how is it massed/put together and what and how is it mounted and what are they mounted to(the body) and what is the consistancy and mass of anything connected to the body and how is that stuff mounted and how much mass does it have in relation to how its mounted to what and where.
So hopefully you can now see that a single finger Marlen is completely different in those variables; than a Sho-bud.
It's not just the aluminum fingers and rollers and old birdseye maple; that one would think should sound the same or similar.
Just a small sample of one of the differences of the Marlen from a Sho-bud> without going into the "25 off the top of my head" differences; Is:
The single fingers in a pull release Marlen are of a complete difference in total mass makup. They are machined from solid aluminum stock and are one piece and are of a certain dimensions; as for the Sho-bud; you have an assemble finger with a top and rivoted to two pulling arms; and you can see right there that the makup and mass are completely different> Plus the Marlen fingers are mounted on a two piece assembled bridge with a bigger in diameter Axle and the Sho-bud is a smaller Axle and mounted to a completely different bridge that is one piece; and both the Marlen and Sho-bud bridges are mounted to the body differently in proportion to the body.
Ok Shall I go on?? Or do you get my Drift??
I can certainly tell you 25 more differences; but I'm tired now and tired of listening to my self say this stuff> it's hurting my Brain.
Good night.
Ricky |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 03:16 AM
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Good Morning Ricky,and you are the BEST my Friend,and to believe i even Spelled it wrong!!!knowing better toooooo. Man i love to see you give all the Tec.advice,and you are the MAN. That just goes to show we can't go just but the looks of a guitar huh.I was so amazed,first one i ever played,and i just knew it was gonna sound like a Bud,but WRONG. But it does sound good!!!!
Now,I wonder WHAT I COULD CHANGE!!!ha ha
YEP, I SORTA CRAZY### thanks RICKY farris |
Bob Carlucci
Member From: Candor, New York, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 04:43 AM
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Not to start an argument here, but pickups DO alter the tone of an instument. [ this is all hypothetical, I know Farris doesn't want his Marlen to sound like his Buds] I would bet that a Sho Bud pickup would allow that Marlen to display some "Bud Like" characteristics.. No, it will not make it sound exactly like a Bud, but it will be closer...I had an MSA with a 60's Sho Bud coil tap pickup in it, and it basically split the difference.. That guitar lost some of the MSA muddiness, and gained some of that warm Sho Bud midrange sweetness.. No, not exactly like the 6139 the pickup came from, but several of the characteristics. Gibson over the years has used 3 different types of pickups in thier Les Paul Guitars.. Mini Humbuckers, Full Size Humbuckers and P 90 single coils... If you do not change the amp settings, play 3 identical Les Pauls, each fitted with one of the different sets of pickups, you will hear 3 VERY different tones coming from the same exact guitar.... If you put an old Fender pickup in a Sho Bud, it WILL take on some of the characteristic Fender sound,and vise versa... Pickups are NOT the only "tone maker" on any electric instrument, but IMHO they are a MAJOR factor... My original Carter S 10 had a GeorgeL pickup and the one I have now has a lightly wound Wallace Trutone... They don't sound anything like each other.. 2 totally different sounds from the same brand guitar.... bob[This message was edited by Bob Carlucci on 19 August 2005 at 04:45 AM.] |
Larry Bell
Member From: Englewood, Florida
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posted 19 August 2005 07:10 AM
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If you want to hear what the Marlen sounds like in its best context, I'd suggest checking out Frank Rogers' website and getting that long awaited CD he is finishing up. Frank has been playing that old blue D-10 for as long as I've known him (that's a LONG TIME) and it sounds as good as any pedal steel I've ever heard. I agree with Ricky's tone assessment. There's a bit of the Sho-Bud midrange and there are characteristics that remind me a little of a push-pull but the guitar is 100% MARLEN. Len Statler was a gentleman and master craftsman. It's one of those brands I've never owned that are on my short list to own one of these days.Do yourself a favor and go to Frank's website. Tell him that his biggest fan (ME) sent you.  ------------------
Larry Bell - email: larry@larrybell.org - gigs - Home Page
2003 Fessenden S/D-12 8x8, 1969 Emmons S/D-12 6x6, 1984 Sho-Bud S/D-12 7x6, 1971 Dobro, Standel and Peavey Amps
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Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 07:40 AM
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Don't know how to start!!First i'll bend over and take a swift kick!!!from each of you.I was raised a Baptist,and we don't like to change,we want things just like uncle John did it 40yrs ago!!!hahahaha
I been on the MARLEN this A M for over a hour,and learning to like it!!!It is so clear and sounds much like the sound i been looking for so long. Yep,it is bright,clear,clean,and different!!!!My wife even said you sound the best i have heard you in a long time!But,what does she know!!!hahahahaha OK,i'm learning,there is more to life than just SHO-BUD,but i don't know what it would be!!! I'm working on Alabama Jubliee in G and keep getting on the wrong song!!!I mix it with Just because,Just because, and Down yonder!!! sure need the rythum tracks. Moral of the story is,don't be afraid of change sometimes!!!! farris |
Larry Robbins
Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 01:31 PM
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Hey Farris my Friend,
Im glad your starting to like that Marlen soooo much!! Maybe now you'll let me take that old, broke down,Black SHO~BUD off your hands! Just to help you get some of your money back  Ill give it a good home and treat her better than my wife!....cause if I spend too much more on steel guitars right now, she said she'll leave me! Oh well, I'm sure gonna miss her!he, he,he!
....Good luck with the Marlen, my friend!------------------
73 PRO II, 79/80 PRO III
Steelkings,Fender guitars,Preston covers,
and Taylor(Tut that is)
Reso's
"Of all the things Ive lost in life, I miss my mind the most"
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Larry Strawn
Member From: Golden Valley, Arizona, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 02:56 PM
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Larry R......Sure glad I caught this post, here you are tryin to sneak that black "Bud" away from me!!!! Farris, don't you let "that other Larry" have that Bud, told ya, I got more ex's to trade!! Larry ------------------
Emmons S/D-10, 3/5, Sessions 400 Ltd. Home Grown E/F Rack
"ROCKIN COUNTRY"
[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 19 August 2005 at 02:57 PM.]
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Larry Robbins
Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 05:20 PM
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Larry S.
Uhhh, Errrr, I was gonna tell you
Just as soon as I got it.( but I dont think I have a snowballs chance in H...)
But, hey you cant blame a guy for trying! |
James Morehead
Member From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA
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posted 19 August 2005 05:27 PM
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"Can't get Marlen to sound like a Shobud"
That's all right Farris, I can't get my shobud to sound like a Marlen, either.
( Sorry, Farris, couldn't resist! HA!) |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 19 August 2005 05:52 PM
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quote:
Why come this marlin don't sound like a sho-bud???
beautyful wood,strings on solid alum.pullers,keyheads almost the same!!lots of direct wood contact
maybe the logo is too far to the right...
Promat is known for its terrible tone because of that... Db ------------------
"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 19 August 2005 06:15 PM
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Damir,Atleast the Marlen is a Marlen!! It is not a copy of anything. The promat is nothing more than a pirated Emmons. Quite simply it is a copy except for the name tag, and it cost 3 times the original of an Emmons. |
Damir Besic
Member From: La Vergne,TN
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posted 19 August 2005 10:58 PM
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quote:
"The greatest ignorance is to reject something you know nothing about"
Anonymous quotes
Db
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"Promat"
~when tone matters~
http://hometown.aol.com/damirzanne2/PROMAT.html |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 20 August 2005 12:54 AM
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Oh, I see someone wants to start that tired old argument again, must have just been waiting for the chance. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 20 August 2005 at 01:36 AM.]
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Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 03:15 AM
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quote:
I was raised a Baptist,and we don't like to change
Farris, you slay me.
Guitars don't change, people do!I'm glad you're learning to appreciate the Marlen for its unique tone.
My singing has a unique tone, but I've finally gotten used to it.
I was raised a Methodist, and we sang more quietly in church and it took me decades to sing out. So just think of your Marlen as a reform Methodist. Hope this clears things up! |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 03:56 AM
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Thanks JIM !!!Your so right!!! This is just a real,and Funny debate!!! This is how we learn,find out stuff. No madness,just enjoyable!! Some people can't handle that,they all MAD AT THE WORLD!!Like the old FORD AND CHEVY. thing,can debate it from now onnnnnn. DAM-ER go back to you side of the fence!!! farris |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 05:07 AM
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Well,back on track,kindda let Damer throw it off!!!OK,top 4 strings sounds so tinny,then the larger strings sound so full.
Just playing thru the Peavy 112.I haven't changed the setting on the amp,so i guess its time to play with them some.I'm always studying,i notice the puller mounts are bolted on top of the housing !!!
Wonder what happens if made new mounts like a Zum,and others and went to the wood body?? Well,i would be known as the Junk Yard for steel guitars!!!! farris |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 20 August 2005 06:06 AM
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Damirquote: Confuciucs say "Man from Croatia like promat velly much. Man not from Croatia no like promat velly much. Confucius also say: Woman with dress up, run faster than man with pants down! |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 09:53 AM
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TB you blessed my heart!!!also,seen man with no shirt (NO SERVICE) Woman with no shirt (FREE SERVICE)
I really enjoy my Friends on here!!and all the good information tooooo.This is my kind of topic,laughing and learning together!!!
ONE of the Larrys wanted to buy my SHO-BUD,
but don't remember which one!?????? farris |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 20 August 2005 10:19 AM
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Yeah tb, you've made it abuntantly clear in past threads already what you think of the Promat, to the point that we're all sick and tired of it. Give it and us a rest already. |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 10:40 AM
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Laughing my rump off this morning!!!I set up my OLD brown and sharp screw mach.making some shims out of delrin,What a mess,High Speed machining,using coolant,make a little shim,then look for it in the shoe string chips!!bet i could buy them somewhere for a penny but don't want to go thru all that hassel.oh well,thats the pleasure of being retired huh!!!if you never machined nylon,you have missed a treat!!hahahha farris |
tbhenry
Member From: Chattanooga /USA
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posted 20 August 2005 06:28 PM
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Jim,Damir has also made it abundantly clear what he thinks of the promat. Are you not tired of it too?? We'll I am!! |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 07:12 PM
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YEP,i enjoy messing around on the old steels!and most knows i love them old sho-buds!! I just thought this was interesting as much as the Marlen looks so close to the sho-bud,and still so much difference in the sound!!
I was thinking back in the 1950s the cars,i use to hear one coming and tell you what kind it was.Motors looked simlar ect.but a 1956 ford thunderbird engine!!had that sound. and a 56 chevy 327vet had that sound, they all drove but different
farris |
b0b
Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 08:17 PM
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Gentlemen, please! The topic is tone: Sho-Bud vs. Marlen. It's very rude to hijaak Farris's legitimate topic this way. The Promat discussion is a different topic.  ------------------
 Bobby Lee
-b0b- quasar@b0b.com
System Administrator
My Blog |
Larry Robbins
Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA
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posted 20 August 2005 09:43 PM
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Farris my Friend,
I have never seen a Marlen up close. How does that changer differ from the SHO~BUD?
How does the pull and release work? Might as well learn something if I can!! |
Jim Phelps
Member From: just out of Mexico City
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posted 21 August 2005 12:02 AM
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True b0b, but in the case of Farris having his thread hijacked, I'd think of that as simple karma....  |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 21 August 2005 04:36 AM
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Woah! Everybody pull their trunks up.... |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 21 August 2005 06:59 AM
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CHARLIE,
Man you be crazyer than me !!!!
No need to pull pants up,This is on the UP AND UP!!
Now,thank all u guys for the help and learning about this tone topic.
Tone is very odd to me !!I made a set of notes for Bible school one time for a teacher to play like bells. I used Large BOLTS out of my shop.
ONE BOLT would ring one note,and another bolt that looked the same would ring another note. Some were chrome plated and some were black. Sure the length will change the note toooo. and the better the steel the better the ring.
Well,as i dwell on this,it makes lots of sence why different insts.sound different.
I have two cow bells out in the shop,one was my granddads from many yrs.ago. and the other is a newer one.looks the same, but the old one rings pretty and high pitch.the newer one is dull. and they look exactly the same. this will make us think huh.
i'll stop for now. farris |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 21 August 2005 07:43 AM
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Man,my MIND is going round and round !!I am a Black Smith sometimes,and i have two anvils,one i mount on a large stump.if i set the ANVIL directly on the stump,it doesn't ring. but if i sit it on a rubber mat on top of the stump,it will RING so pretty. but the other anvil,just like the other one 125 lbs. will not ring even on the mat. Different alloys i suppose.
Now,what is the best Floor to play steel on?
Seems carpet would take away!!what about those rubber feet on the steels,good or bad? I had a steel one time,legs kept comming loose,friend said put rubber O rings on them and tighten them down.NOW i wonder!!! and i've heard wood has a ring to it.some more and some less. I know when i heat steel in the forge,and temper it,hardens it and make a completely different pc of steel, tough. What alloy for steels,alum.grades ect,Which is best,a casting allow,or made from bar stock. LATER. farris |
Barry Blackwood
Member From: elk grove, CA
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posted 21 August 2005 07:57 AM
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Farris - it don't sound like a 'Bud 'cause it ain't a 'Bud. Simple. |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 21 August 2005 09:55 AM
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Barry,i LAUGHING,what if i change names on it,call it a SHO-BUD,mabe that will fix it huh ????? ahhahahhahhaaha farris |
Charlie McDonald
Member From: Lubbock, Texas, USA
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posted 21 August 2005 01:28 PM
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Try it. It might work.
It might sound better if you put your own name on it.... |
JOHN COOP
Member From: YORKTOWN, IND. USA
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posted 21 August 2005 01:43 PM
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Farris..Maybe you could put my parts on it. That would give it a "Sporting Chance". Coop |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 21 August 2005 03:12 PM
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John,you are the MAN, i guarantee if your parts were put on that MARLEN,it would be a fine guitar.It already is,don't want to knock it,but it's different.I would bet,if the tail pcs.were changed to sho-bud,and your puller installed,and linkage of yours it would sound just like a sho-bud should!!
Great idea for anyone who wants to get rid of the pull and release linkage.and John is the man to do it tooooooo farris |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 21 August 2005 04:00 PM
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OK; don't do THAT!!!
If you don't want the Marlen Sound...send it here> I want it.
If you want a Sho-bud Sound; get a Sho-bud.
The single finger Marlen is very close to my Heart and I personally would never do anything to make the great Leonard Stadler roll in his Grave. Leave it alone; like it was meant to be played.
If you don't like the way it plays; send it here and I'll set it up properly and you'll never have to mess with it again and then you'll also know it can play as smooth as anything you've ever put your foot on.
Ricky |
Stephen Gambrell
Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA
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posted 22 August 2005 05:39 AM
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Those Marlen pull-release guitars have a tone of their own, that's for sure. I had an SD-10, that was an absolute BEAST to work on, but I got it changed to my setup, made a few changes underneath that Ricky didn't get to (not by his choice), and had a sweet little second guitar. Light, but sturdy, with real good sustain, and SUPER tone. Wish I still had it.
But it was hard to tune, even with Ricky's excellent instructions. Somebody posted an even better set of directions, but only AFTER I'd gotten rid of my Marlen.
Hard to tune, hard to change overhard to find parts for----It really DOES sound like a push-pull ! |
Farris Currie
Member From: Ona, Florida, USA
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posted 22 August 2005 08:16 AM
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OK,this has been very enjoyable topic to me,and thanks to all the friends who joined in with information. I think it time to close her up now. and we have all learned a lots i hope.
Thanks Ricky for you special help tooooo. I promise i not going to tear the guitar up at all. JUST FUNNING AROUND.PLEASE CLOSE IT UP BOB. farris |
Topic Closed
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