You need to check your facts on the guitars of Lloyd Green. Lloyd DID have a walnut stained LDG with aluminum an aluminum neck. If you think that Rick or myself is lying to you, ask Lloyd yourself.

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After I came up with the padded model Sho-Bud, which initially was to be only for my personal studio use, and requests started coming in to Sho-Bud for a guitar built like mine, the picture suddenly changed.
Early on I had suggested this might be a commercially viable instrument for Sho-Bud to fill the gap between a pure single neck and a double neck. Shot's and David's first response was that this was a looney idea, that is, until they started getting all those folks wanting one. Suddenly it was a brilliant idea! I was back in the fold.
In my contract signed with Sho-Bud in 1973 outlining royalty amount per guitar sold, design, color, etc. it is clearly stated that all LDGs (David Jackson's and my appellation) will (would) be of a dark green color. For those who wanted the LDG model, but in a different color, an additional two letters would be added under the "LDG"; SP. SP stands for special paint, nothing more. I would still receive royalties but the color could be any choice.
There were, indeed, 25 to 30 LDGs built at a time and there may have been a few mixed colors of special orders among them, but all LDGs not green would have been labeled SP.
Now, there are a number of counterfeit LDGs of various colors out there that were built after Fred Gretsch acquired Sho-Bud from the Baldwin corporation. Counterfeit being any that weren't built by the Gretsch Corp. And lawsuits were threatened by Fred although to my knowledge none were ever filed.
If an LDG is of a color other than dark green (not counting the ones which have grotesquely faded from repeated sunlight exposure or guitars that have been repainted a different color and had the LDG re-added) and doesn't have SP under the logo.....they are counterfeits. By the way, any LDG decal that can be flaked or peeled off is also a fake since all legitimate decals were under the finish.
Sometime in the mid 1980s I saw a beautiful Walnut LDG with a medal neck insert sitting on the floor at Bobbe Seymore's store. I played it for a little while and commented to Bobbe how I loved the color and thought the tone might be ok. Without another word he picked up the phone, called Fred Gretsch who now owned Sho-Bud, and told him of our conversation. Fred told him to give me the steel and send him the invoice for payment. I never asked for the steel but I sure as hell took it when offered since I had only had 4 Sho-Buds in my entire career.
I did use it one year in St. Louis and made the statement attributed to me, and I took it to many sessions trying to get used to the sound. But by then Sho-Bud was a different creature, sounding little like the ones I was used to playing. I soon returned to my LDG #1 which I would never part with, and played that for most of the remainder of my "first" session career that ended in 1988.
In 1988 I traded that beautiful, but tone flawed Walnut color steel to Jimmy Crawford, in return for which he built the JCH I played for the ensuing 15 years. I didn't start playing the #1 LDG again until about 3 years ago when I returned to sessions.
I hope this clarifies some of the murkiness surrounding this topic.

Lloyd Green

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Don't matter who's in Austin (or anywhere else) Ralph Mooney is still the king!!!

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Yes, the Walnut steel had SP in the appropriate place, and was under
the
finish.
The only significant record I played that steel on and sounded really
good
was my solo on John Conlee's 1986 Columbia record, "The Carpenter."
Other than that one, I couldn't beg, borrow or steal (steel?) a good
tone from it.
Lloyd G.

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There have been a number of green LDGs floating around with the "SP" moniker. In fact, one is up for sale right now in the Buy & Sell ( http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum9/HTML/001872.html ). Why would they use "SP" for a seemingly standard green LDG?!?

Joe

[This message was edited by Joe Alterio on 21 November 2005 at 04:53 AM.]