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John Lennon Lap Steel
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Bar Chatter Archive
John Lennon Lap Steel
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: John Lennon Lap Steel |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 28 October 1999 07:08 AM
Would you please identify the manufacturer and the model of the lapsteel played by John Lennon ------------------ [This message was edited by Peter McCormack on 11-25-99] [This message was edited by Peter McCormack on 11-25-99] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 28 October 1999 07:45 AM
http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/9629/JLLAP.jpg I don't know what's with the "8 string" yellow sticky. I only see six strings. I'm not expert enough to know the guitar. ------------------ [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 11-25-99] |
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CHIP FOSSA Member Posts: 2536 |
posted 28 October 1999 08:53 AM
Peter, b0b..... from the looks and shape of the body I'd hazard a guess it's a HOFNER. Sort of looks like the bass that Paul M. played with the Beatles,; and it was a Hofner. Just a shot-in-the-dark guess.....CF ------------------ |
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Brad Bechtel Moderator Posts: 2792 |
posted 28 October 1999 10:16 AM
According to this fan's web site, it's a Hofner 5140 Hawaiian Standard. ------------------ |
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Dave Horch Member Posts: 628 |
posted 28 October 1999 11:18 AM
Interesting... What's that thing he's using for a slide? Kinda looks like a shotgun shell. I'm not trying to make a sick joke (honest!). I'm truly curious if it's just something he picked up or whether it's a legit kind of slide. Any ideas? ------------------
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 28 October 1999 11:41 AM
Whatever he is using as a slide, it must be dangerous. Look at the plaster (bandaid) on his left index finger. ------------------ |
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Jim Cohen Member Posts: 8715 |
posted 28 October 1999 12:04 PM
Is that the guy who used to be in Paul McCartney's old band? |
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Mike Perlowin Member Posts: 6731 |
posted 28 October 1999 12:14 PM
Can you just imagine (no pun intended) where the steel guitar would be today if the Beatles has used one on Yesterday instead of the string section? |
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Gerald Ross Member Posts: 2101 |
posted 28 October 1999 12:34 PM
Thats not a bandaid on his left hand it's a reversed thumbpick. Look at the way he's holding the bar. There's no way the bar could be securely held unless the 'blade' of the thumbpick was being used as a 'wall' or brace for the bar.  Inovative guy. Notice the right hand blocking technique. Crude yet effective. [This message was edited by Gerald Ross on 10-28-99] |
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Dave Horch Member Posts: 628 |
posted 28 October 1999 12:34 PM
Mike, you are sooooo right!! I thought to myself what even the last two bars would sound like on steel. Very nice mental sounds. Heck! I'll bet you could figure something close out for those bars and share it with us. Would you try, please? But hey, if they used a steel on Yesterday, then the Byrds would have gotten jealous and had to put a steel on "Hey Mister Spaceman". Come to think of it, that would have sounded cool too! And Pete; That's no bandaid, it appears to be a thumb pick on the wrong finger and wrong hand (then again John was known as an innovator, or did someone just play a cruel trick on him? "Here, young feller, you'll need one of these things too!") [This message was edited by Ringo on 10-28-99] [This message was edited by Dave Horch on 10-28-99] |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 28 October 1999 01:09 PM
Thanks for the correction on my last post. I guess I don't get out much. This thread has been great fun. By the way, can anyone confirm with certainty that this is a Hofner 5140 Hawaiian standard lap steel. ------------------ |
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Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 |
posted 28 October 1999 01:49 PM
Instead of a shotgun shell, might that be a fuse? Eleanor Bigsby, la la la la, la la.... [This message was edited by Jon Light on 10-28-99] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 28 October 1999 02:15 PM
I think it's a lipstick tube. |
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Mike Dennis Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 28 October 1999 02:43 PM
It might be a cigarette lighter... The song was "For You Blue" writen by George Harrison...sort of a folk - blues number.
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 28 October 1999 03:32 PM
Perhaps an early Smith Melobar. I understand that these instruments were made in the mid 60's. A new model with 8 strings is at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/9629/smithmelobar.jpg Maybe a stretch, but what the heck. ------------------ |
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Dave Van Allen Member Posts: 5369 |
posted 28 October 1999 04:16 PM
I have a "Roy Smeck" bar made of brass with a bevelled edge that would reflect the light in such a way as the oicture... just a thought
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Mike Perlowin Member Posts: 6731 |
posted 28 October 1999 05:32 PM
Dave H, there is already a great steel guitar recording of Yesterday on the Suite Steel album. (Buddy Emmons, J.D. Maness, Red Rhodes, Sneaky Pete and Rusty Young) I don't know which of those guys did it, but whichever one it was, they did it right. If you don't have the album, you really ought to pick it up. Tom Bradshaw is selling it on tape. |
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Mike Perlowin Member Posts: 6731 |
posted 28 October 1999 05:35 PM
BTW, I only count 6 strings in the picture. |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 28 October 1999 05:52 PM
It looks to me like Lennon's either holding the bar backwards, or he might be using the "wrist", or piston pin from a truck engine...I used these myself many years ago. And Mike Perlowin...that was "Sneaky Pete" Kleinow playing "Yesterday" on the Suite Steel album, and it was an 8-string, single-neck Fender, and it had 8 or 9 floor pedals, and he didn't use a volume pedal, and yes, he used both feet on the pedals, and he didn't always use picks, and he sometimes played barefoot, and well...Pete was just very different! |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 29 October 1999 05:50 AM
Smith Melobar cannot rule out that is was one of theirs, but it certainly wasn't a stock item. It is to be remembered that a similar instrument was made for the Rolling Stones by Smith Melobar in the 1960's. If I knew how to post the lap steel at http://www.geocities.com/TimesSquare/Arcade/9629/smithmelobar.jpg to this forum you would see the similarities. Can anyone assist in posting this photo? ------------------ |
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Jim Cohen Member Posts: 8715 |
posted 29 October 1999 06:41 AM
Doesn't look similar to me. 
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Bob Farlow Member Posts: 895 |
posted 29 October 1999 07:08 AM
To me, the slide looks like an old style Bic cigarette lighter. The first ones were round. |
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scott murray Member Posts: 751 |
posted 29 October 1999 09:34 AM
On 'Suite Steel', "Yesterday" was done as a duet with Sneeky and Buddy Emmons. Sneeky did "Blackbird" by himself, and with all the fingerstyle picking, it sounds like a standard guitar at times. Red Rhodes did "Something" on that album too. Lots of Beatles covers! There's a Burritos album with interviews on the inside, and Sneeky accuses the Beatles of being the first to play "country-rock", with tunes like "I Don't Want to Spoil the Party" and "Act Naturally". There's a picture somewhere on the net of Pete Drake jamming with George and Ringo. |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 29 October 1999 01:20 PM
A reply from Gibson customer serice "It's not a Gibson but our guess is that it's made by Valco who manufactured under many names like National, Supro, Silvertone (Sears). It may be Oahu as well, tough to tell from that picture." The hunt continues. ------------------ |
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Brad Bechtel Moderator Posts: 2792 |
posted 29 October 1999 04:15 PM
It's definitely not a Valco made instrument. Why does anyone have trouble believing it's a Hofner? I don't have much information on the Hofner line of lap steels, but the 1950 Hofner shown on page 136 of "The Hawaiian Steel Guitar and its Great Hawaiian Musicians" compiled by Lorene Ruymar has the exact same bridge components, from what I can tell. I'm pretty certain the 'steel bar' is a cigarette lighter, too. I remember the early butane lighters looking like that. Remember this song (For You Blue) was recorded in 1969! ------------------ |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 29 October 1999 05:33 PM
I agree with you completely Brad. Just looking for the documentation to back up the claim of the Hofner 5140 Hawaiian model. I would love to see the picture that you describe posted. Thanks for your interest. ------------------ |
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Mike Dennis Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 29 October 1999 09:27 PM
What's really cool is... John Lennon made The Steel Guitar Forum " ya, ya, ya, yaaa~~~ lookin' through a glass onion" [This message was edited by Mike Dennis on 10-29-99] |
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Mike Dennis Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 29 October 1999 09:40 PM
PS Jim... thanks for posting a picture of my red Melobar CC-8... yes I've got one just like it... use it all the time... love it. Mike |
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Joe Herchel unregistered Posts: 1387 |
posted 30 October 1999 06:49 AM
Great photo b0b! wrt: Ringo stated in a recent interview that he overheard one of grandkids say to a friend, "My Granpa used to play drums in Paul McCartney's backup band." ------------------ |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 30 October 1999 07:10 AM
Eric Shoaf writes "Interesting. I haven't seen a steel like that before, but I would guess it could be a Framus? The only way to know for sure would be to consult old catalogs. I know that it is *not* a Gibson, Fender, Rick, Epi, or any of the Valco or Regal made steels from Chicago." Of course the definitive search continues. ------------------ |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 30 October 1999 08:07 AM
Well the ship has just arrived. Steve Russell writes "In a late 60s Bell Musical Instruments, I finally came up with the info. - "Hofner Model 5140 Hawaiian Standard. Cash Price £33.0.0. Solid wood body. Lustre mirror finish, shaded sunburst to rich brown. Standard scale inlaid frets with position dots. Plated metal tailpiece with string guard. Fitted with Nova -Sonic double pole, single coil pickup. Tone and volume controls. Steel screw cog, brass worm machine heads. Complete with lead." (By the way, the "rigid style case with plated fittings and carrying handle" cost a further £7.0.0.) The picture in the catalogue looks identical to Mr Lennon's instrument. You have been correctly informed, I reckon, that it is a Hofner 5140!" Brad: The next time you comment on something like this you have my attention. It really took you nanoseconds to come to this conclusion much earlier. I am hoping that we could get a photo posted, just to compare the instruments side by side and learn something new about Hofner lap steels. Q.E.D. ------------------ [This message was edited by Peter McCormack on 10-30-99] |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 30 October 1999 08:12 AM
One last word. I wonder who has the catalog of 1960's butane cigarette lighters. Postive ID, anyone? ------------------ |
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CHIP FOSSA Member Posts: 2536 |
posted 30 October 1999 08:19 AM
If anyone has ever followed the Beatles from day one will know that HOFNER guitars were a big choice in late 50's/early 60's England. American made guitars were not easy to come by back then, but Germany and other Euro countries had no problem. Even when I visited England in 1976, many musicians I ran into grilled me for hours on the latest American artists of that period. A tour of their record stores showed that they were about 10 years behind what was goin' on in the U.S. FWIW...........CF ------------------ |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 30 October 1999 08:35 AM
Sorry Chip, you were really first off the mark weren't you. Hofner was a good bet based on history. By the time "For You Blue" was recorded the Beatles had used many other guitars, besides the Hofner line, and I just wanted to be sure. Your point is well taken. ------------------ |
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Mike Dennis Member Posts: 1387 |
posted 30 October 1999 09:42 AM
The early disposable butane lighters had a metal bottom and top. What we are looking at there is the bottom of the lighter. John was a heavy cigarette smoker... |
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Dave Boothroyd Member Posts: 714 |
posted 31 October 1999 01:16 AM
I was in a shop in Doncaster UK last year and they were selling new Hofners like this. The shop had bought up all the spares from the Hofner factory sale and were assembling new lap steels from the old parts. As I recall the price was not outrageous, though I was not tempted because it didn't seem to offer any improvement on my homemade singing plank of wood. ------------------ |
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Brad Bechtel Moderator Posts: 2792 |
posted 02 November 1999 08:55 AM
 This is the Hofner lap steel in the book to which I referred. It's not a good scan; you should go buy the book!  ------------------ |
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 02 November 1999 09:23 AM
Thanks Brad. Your efforts are most appreciated. Yes I should buy the book. ------------------ |
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Stephen Candib New Member Posts: 1 |
posted 02 November 1999 09:18 PM
Peter you sly dog, now I get it. Cool forum, btw. Time to get my head out of archtops and into steels. For the delectation of all involved, regarding the Lennon lapsteel: Yes, by 1970 Selmer had catalogued this lapsteel as a 5140. In the early '60's they catalogued the same instrument as a 379. Hofner catalogued the instrument as a Model 111 way back in the late '50's.
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Peter McCormack Member Posts: 21 |
posted 03 November 1999 04:26 AM
Thanks Steven, the information continues to grow. Does anyone out there have a photo of the 5140 Hofner Hawaiian? |
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