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Push-Pull vs. All-Pull? pros/cons (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
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Push-Pull vs. All-Pull? pros/cons (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Wanted To Buy |
| Author | Topic: Push-Pull vs. All-Pull? pros/cons |
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 15 February 2000 12:09 AM
My favorite steel is my Franklin but I must say that the Legrande III is a great steel. I borrowed one for a week and really liked it. There is a reason that so many pros use them. I don't think that pickups have to much to do with it though. The E neck had a BL 710 and the C neck had an Emmons single coil. Both necks sounded just like an Emmons. If any of you collector guys feel guilty about having too many PP's I'll get one of em back on the bandstand for you  Bob |
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Bobby Bowman Member Posts: 1271 |
posted 15 February 2000 12:40 AM
Slim, I will voice an opinion or two and would hope that they are a benefit to everyone. Let me say first off, that I like both systems. My heart lies with the push pull probably a little more just for reasons of my experiences with them. I have played, worked on and built many more all pull systems than I have push pull systems. I should have an all new, all pull guitar to show and play at the upcoming Dallas show. My new double changer, keyless push pull is still a month or two away. I'm very excited about it to say the least. I think you will be too. Now, about guitars----all pull vs push pull. In my opinion, there is nothing better than a push pull guitar that is properly set up. It can be very easy action and relatively fast in most cases. There are some exceptions, but that can be true on any guitar, all pull or push pull. On the other hand, an all pull that is properly set up is every much as sweet a playing guitar. The secret (which is really no secret at all) to a good playing guitar is in the set up and adjustment. All pull guitars can be a little more forgiving in this area, but still need to be "feathered" just as a push pull needs to be in order to play to its' full potential. The big plus, as I see it, for the all pull system is the ease of the "split tuning" or "primary lower" feature. The big plus for the push pull system is in its' "transfer feel" of one note or a group of notes to another note or notes. For me that is more important than the "split". The all pulls are a little easier to work on to the "untrained" mechanic as a rule, or even to many of the "trained" mechanics probably. As to sound, tone and sustain, I think a player should trust his own ear for that purpose. As to tuning, staying in tune and returning to true pitch after a change, I've seen good and bad in both systems in everybodys' (manufacturers) guitars, even when they come off the same assymbly line. At its' best, a pedal steel guitar is a very finicky and fastidious instrument and subject to change its' behavior from one night to the next. But, isn't it so wonderfull what beautiful sounds can come from such a terrifying and unpredictable beast? Whichever or whatever guitar you choose to play, you need to learn the "feel" and "response and feedback" of that particular guitar. This generally just doesn't happen or happen over night. It takes a bit of "getting used to" each other and a considerable amount of dedication to your instrument. Hope all of this helps a little. Hell, a book or two could be written about all of this and all that it entails and still not cover it all. I just tried to skim the surface a little. BB (I mis-spelled a word or two and hopefully have corrected them)  ------------------ If you play 'em, play 'em good! If you build 'em, build 'em good! [This message was edited by Bobby Bowman on 15 February 2000 at 12:51 AM.] |
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Frank Estes Member Posts: 2451 |
posted 15 February 2000 08:16 AM
One has to try out a push-pull for themselves before determining if it is for them and one that is not a "basket case." Seymour's Steel Guitar Nashville is a great place to try these out. I wish I had done this when I bought my first new steel guitar in 1980. As for speed, I never noticed a push-pull slowing down Tommy White! I have never heard the tune "Nervous Breakdown," but from what I hear, it is incredibly fast, played by Paul Franklin on an Emmons Push-Pull. It is on a Jerry Reed recording. Sonny Garrish has done plenty of recording in the studio and from what I hear, he always uses an Emmons push-pull. He used a black one on an awards show a few months ago. Bruce Bouton used a push-pull for his C6 work on "Long Neck Bottles." He may have used an all-pull on some of the other songs. He will tell you when he will use the push-pull on a session. Mike Johnson played Emmons push-pulls on those TNN talent shows like "You Can Be A Star." I saw that red guitar he used at Carl Dixon's first Atlanta show. He sometimes used a rosewood push-pull on that show. Those guitars really "cut through" even on primative TV speakers. Given that Hal Rugg recorded his "Altered Ego" album around 1978, it is real safe to say that he used an Emmons push-pull on that. Bobbe Seymour's Live CD is recorded with a 1971 Emmons push-pull through a Sho~Bud amp and is a monster recording, especially for you country "purists." To think he recorded that live in front of Chet Atkins and other guitar greats, is amazing. Doug Jernigan recorded the "Uptown to Country" (Diggin Doug) album using a formica Emmons push-pull in 1970. Of course, there is Mr. Buddy Emmons who never missed a thing using an Emmons push-pull, the guitar he co-designed. You better believe when Buddy gets called in to do a session with a "real" country singer, that he is most likely to take "the blade" with him. For me, there are Emmons push-pulls and then there are the rest. Frank ------------------ |
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Jim Cohen Member Posts: 8715 |
posted 15 February 2000 08:30 AM
Bobby, that was a truly beautiful statement, full of experience and wisdom, and excellent spelling to boot. Thank you. See you in Dallas. jc |
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Dan Tyack Member Posts: 3552 |
posted 15 February 2000 09:47 AM
Hal's 'Alter Ego' album was recorded on a Franklin, I believe. The point on the 'speed' of an all pull isn't that you can necessarily play faster, it's more of a feel thing. An all pull can feel faster. I find it really hard to play a PP or a Legrande, because I am used to the action and feel of my Franklin. I can play faster on a Franklin, which is not to say that I can play faster than anybody on an Emmons (which is obviously not true). The tone thing is totally subjective, some people prefer the sound of an old PP Emmons, some people prefer a different sound. On the objective side, there are some copedents that simply won't work on a PP Emmons (e.g. Paul Franklins setup). ------------------ |
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Moon in Alaska Member Posts: 1155 |
posted 15 February 2000 11:55 AM
I think it is interesting, to say the least, we have to go to the CARTER web site to see how an EMMONS push pull works !! ------------------ |
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John Lacey Member Posts: 1843 |
posted 15 February 2000 02:40 PM
Moon, actually you don't. I also have that animation on my Emmons site. http://www.cadvision.com/laceyj/guide.html |
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Steve Stallings Member Posts: 2065 |
posted 15 February 2000 05:40 PM
Wow......have we been here a few times before or what! I personally feel that the all pull guitars are much easier to work on. I'm not knocking PP guitars. I used to have a D10 PP Emmons which was a pretty cool guitar. I just prefer the action of my AP, as well as the ease of maintenance. I gotta remark...this is possibly the most civil of these threads since the forum started. Tyler, I hope you get a guitar which speaks to you. You know, the guitar which upon viewing or playing says "take me home". In a couple of weeks you could drive up to Dallas and do all the tire kicking ya want. Good luck with what ever you decide. ------------------ |
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