posted 09 December 1999 11:16 PM         

[This message was edited by Al Marcus on 12-24-99]

posted 10 December 1999 08:50 AM         

quote:

---

with the Eb knee in, just push the Left knee E to D in and release Eb lever,

---

Better, I think:

With the lever that lowers that E (.030) to D, also raise E (.014) a half step. Then you don't have to release the E -> D# lever to get the E7 chord.

What you lose by this is that you can never play low D and high D# (but you wouldn't wnat to IMHO).

posted 10 December 1999 09:59 AM         

I hear what you're saying, EB, but there are other ways of getting the 7+9 (or the enharmonic 13b9 as you point out) and having the remainder of the E9 tuning unaltered with a low tonic E on 11 and on 4 is preferable for the way I use the universal pedal changes -- particularly on the 'E9 side' of the tuning. I find this way to get the Dom7 more useful than raising B to D. For example, I will frequently use a major chord grip with E on top (4th) and on bottom (8th) and lower the 8th to D. I couldn't live without the E to D alone -- one of those truly non-negotiable changes for me.

Different strokes . . .
(just my opinion . . . I COULD be wrong -- and have been from time to time)

posted 15 December 1999 08:14 AM         

Those that migrate to universal from E9 like to keep the grips and top end strings that they already use.

Those that migrate from C6 like to keep the ability to "lock into" the 6th tuning, ..they would probably like to stick the D(C# if B6) as the top string, and use the top 4 as E, F#, G#, C# in that order.

The choice of top string order is a matter of which was their most active tuning, E9 usually wins for the E9/B6 approach; B(b)6 in the case of the Bb6/Eb9 approach.

For the E9/B6 uni the "change lock" has the following advantages; with the Str 8 B to D change and the E9 top strings the standard E9 grips and rolls exist if the B6 lock is not engaged. If the lock is engaged, the C6 (one of the several) tunings is available and the left knee is free.

Because the knee is free, it may be moved to another set of knee levers to the right of the E9 left knee levers. This makes it easier to reach the 7,8,9, etc pedals with the right leg, and have some added C6 type changes on the new knee levers.Those that migrate from doubles with E9 and C6 necks seem to prefer this set up.

Those that would migrate from an A6 or E6/13 non pedal tuning might prefer the top 5 strings as B, C#, E, F#, G# in that order to keep their A6 and/or E6/13 grips, rolls, and slants.

If they like the looks of "two footing" the pedals, or have nice long legs like Joe Wright, they may opt out on the Change lock.

Joe W does not use the lock (that I know of) and plays the the neck and changes as one large variable tuning. You will note that his setup is not the common E9/C6 changes in the common E9/C6 order.

Bill Stafford seems to have come to the Universal via lap steel tunings to double ten E9/C6 and ended up at E9/B6 with lock, Str 8 B to D pull, extra G# on top, and added knee levers for the left leg when the lock is engaged (B6).

My preference at the moment is E69/A6/B69/13 series, 14 strings, C# for string 12 and 2, E9 top end (except str 2), lock, and changes that allow converting the E69 to EM13, Em13, E13, E13s4, EM13s4, with all 7 tones in each (just adds one pedal to the setup) and without losing most of the common E9/B6/A6 changes. I did not migrate from Double 10's but from laps and electroharp type setups. I sometimes use a P0 to lower G# to G for the Em9 chord series.

Some other variations on the universal theme are the Bb6 basic tuning as played by Maurice Anderson, David Wright, and others, ..Bud Carter uses something a bit different, Pee Wee Whitewing uses Eb9 with a different top end, and I am sure that there are other preferences out there.

Some time ago I did a series of blurbs on the forum attempting to cover the evolution of tunings, ..if you are interested, searching in this "tech" section for "Tunings I" thru "Tunings VIII" should drag them up.

posted 19 December 1999 10:58 AM         

1. To get as near as practical to having at least four tone I, IV, V chords with consecutive intervals on consecutive strings using a single neck, via changes; in my case I chose E7\9, A6, B6\9 for openers.

2. To be able to run diatonic and chromatic scales without moving the bar.

3. To be able to get the b3, #3(s4), b5, #5, bb7(6), b7 and 7 variations to a given chord, on at least one of the I, IV, or V necks without moving the bar.

4. To retain the most common E9 and C6 moves and possibilities.

5. To extend at least one of the musical necks to have the intervals 1,3,5,7,9,11,13 on consecutive strings ==> E, EM7, EM9, EM11, EM13.

6. To get E7, E9, E11, E13, Em, Em7, Em9, Em11, Em13, Es4, E7s4, E9s4, E11s4, E13s4, EM7s4, EM9s4, EM11s4, EM13s4 out of the structure from 5. above without being rediculous about pedals and levers.

7. To have as much of the Curly Chalker C6 and the Julian Tharpe E9 in one physical neck as I could get without violating the other desires.

The result is a 9 and 5 E9(NC), A6(P1P2), B69(L>), EM13(P3), E13(P2R>), Em13(P3P4R>), EM13s4(P3P2), E13s4(P3P2R>).

The A6(P1P2) gives A7(P1P1L^), A6b5(P1P2L>), A7b5(P1P2L^L>), A7#5(P1P2L^L<), and using R< with the above A chords changes them all to minors.

Adding a Pedal 0 can change the E9 chord variations to Em9 chord variations.

Add the B6 lock and 2 alternate levers for the left leg the C6 structure opens up nicely.

Now if I could only play the @%^#*)%$ thing.

posted 25 December 1999 08:21 AM         

The tuning that bob references was to explain the "13 series" added to the E9 of the E9/B6 as I use it. It does not cover the B6 section, nor the Ped 0 for the Em9 chord series. The B6 is obtained via L> which I also have on a lock.

posted 25 December 1999 02:29 PM         

            Lok
s# NC L< L^ L> P0 P1 P2 P3 P4 P9  R< R>
1  F# -  G  -  -  -  -  -  -  -   -  -
2  C# -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -   -  D
3  G# -  -  -  G  -  A  -  G  -   -  -
4  E  F  -  D# -  -  -  -  -  F   -  -
5  B  -  -  -  -  C# -  C# -  -   A# - 
6  G# -  -  -  G  -  A  A  -  A#  -  -
7  F# -  G  -  -  -  -  -  -  -   -  -
8  E  F  -  D# -  -  -  D# -  -   -  D
9  B  -  -  -  -  C# -  -  -  -   A# -
10 G# -  -  -  G  -  A  -  G  -   -  -
11 E  F  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  F   -  -
12 C# -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -   C  -
13 B  -  -  -  -  -  A  A  -  C   -  -
14 E  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  -  F   -  -
Here is the B69 portion of the setup shown with Lok on.
s# Lok L2< L2> P5 P6 P7 P8 R< R>
1  F#  -   -   -  -  -  -  -  - 
2  C#  -   -   -  -  -  -  -  D
3  G#  -   -   G  -  A  -  -  -
4  D#  -   -   -  E  -  -  -  -
5  B   C#  -   -  -  -  -  A# - 
6  G#  A#  -   -  -  A  -  -  -
7  F#  -   G   F  -  -  -  -  -
8  D#  -   -   -  D  -  -  -  D
9  B   -   -   -  -  -  C  A# -
10 G#  -   -   -  -  A  -  -  -
11 E   -   -   -  -  -  D# -  -
12 C#  -   -   -  -  -  C  C  -
13 B   -   -   -  -  -  G# -  -
14 E   -   -   -  -  -  D# -  -

[This message was edited by ed packard on 12-26-99]

posted 26 December 1999 06:43 AM         

s# Lok L2< L2> P5 P6 P7 P8 R< R>
1  G   -   -   -  -  -  -  -  -  
2  D   -   -   -  -  -  -  -  Eb  
3  A   -   -   Gb -  Bb -  -  -
4  E   -   -   -  F  -  -  -  -
5  C   D   -   -  -  -  -  B  -
6  A   B   -   -  -  Bb -  -  -
7  G   -   G#  Gb -  -  -  -  -
8  E   -   -   -  Eb -  -  -  Eb 
9  C   -   -   -  -  -  C# B  - 
10 A   -   -   -  -  Bb -  -  -
11 F   -   -   -  -  -  E  -  -
12 D   -   -   -  -  -  C# Db -
13 C   -   -   -  -  -  A  -  -
14 F   -   -   -  -  -  E  -  -

L2< also works with other pedal changes so it is good to have on a knee lever, ..P8L2> gives an 11 chord using s#10 as root etc.

For those trying to make a connection with E9 via B6, notice the P6 does this from s#11 up (F9 in the case of C6).

Much more here, have a go at it.

[This message was edited by ed packard on 12-26-99]

posted 26 December 1999 01:04 PM         

Great post!

I too have found many pedal/lever combos that cross-over both of the traditional copedents from which the standard S12U was derived.

You say "It's ONE tuning and should be looked at as such."

What is the name of your tuning?

You mention your P1 change and go on to say...
"This is very useful on standard or with the E's lowered."

How does that statement fit with your "It's ONE tuning and should be looked at as such." statement?

PS
For perspective Universalists...
If the change lock is an available option on the brand you choose, I would recommend having it installed as it is a great thing to have in your bag o' tricks, IMHO. (it can be turned on or off in an instant).
It creates an efficientcy of motion and IMHO allows your brain and body to focus more on what your hands are doing.

[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 12-26-99]

posted 26 December 1999 03:34 PM         

It is whatever one wants to make of it; but to explain it to an E9 person one should speak in E9 terms, and to a C6 person, in C6 terms, and to a two octave seven tone chord person in two octave seven tone chord structure terms.

Re change locks, ..use one or not, just as you find fits your needs, ..but if you do not have it, you can not use it so you lose some possibilities that you might otherwise have; just like 12 strings instead of 10, or 14 instead of 12.

For the pickers that like to tweak their 3rds etc, the Uni provides more of a problem than the double necks if they use each neck as a single chord position. A look at just the C69 (B69) section above shows that it is also an A7, F9, etc. just as the E9 section is an E69, A6, B69, and any other full or partial major/minor/modified/stacked chord(s) for which notes are available on the strings. Which 3rds to tweak?

The charts presented were broken into an E9 and B6 section instead of one long chart because I got confused trying to do it as one in the wraping edit/post window, so it got presented as two parts; since it is generally referred to as an E9/B6 universal to differentiate it from the Bb6, D9, Bb6/Eb9 etc. uni setups.

Whatever it is or is not is subject to opinion ("reality is as you perceive it"), but what it gives to some is a lot of pleasure messing with it; I find it more fun to contemplate than my navel.