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E knee lever -- left leg vs. right (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
E knee lever -- left leg vs. right (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: E knee lever -- left leg vs. right |
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Jonathan Gregg Member Posts: 178 |
posted 11 July 2000 02:12 PM
I'm a beginner who's just started playing an old ZB E9, and the knee lever setup has the right knee controlling the E string raising and lowering. I understand that the more common arrangement has this happening on the left leg knee levers, but I also know that my setup is not necessarily unheard-of. Naturally I want to adopt the most convenient setup, but if I can avoid changing, it's that much less I have to (re)learn. What say you all? Also, can anyone provide me with instructions on how to use harmonics to tune up? I have a tuner but want to try different approaches. many thanks, JG |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 11 July 2000 03:04 PM
There is no hard and fast rule for knee lever placement. There are many (good) arguments for placing them on different knees, different directions, etc. The Buddy Emmons setup is to have them both on the left knee (LKL raises the E's and LKR lowers the E's), however many others have them split, LKL to raise the E's and the E lower on the right knee. As someone starting out I know you want to know what is the more common, but there isn't a "standard" setup. That is the reason letters have been adopted by many people that write steel tab. e.g. the lever that lowers the E strings a half tone (one fret) is called the "D" lever and it doesn't matter where it is physically located, it's still the "D" lever. There are some pedal setups (copedents) listed on the forum, Carter Guitar Co has their "standard" setup and I think some others on their web site. Look them over and then decide if the way yours is set up is the way you want it. Tuning up is the same. There are many ways and methods to do this - sort of like noses, every one has one and they are all different. My Suggestion is to get the Jeff Newman tuning chart and initially use the tuner. Once you get a little time under your belt then you can consider alternative ways to tune (or you may find your own way that works for you). |
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Earnest Bovine Member Posts: 4687 |
posted 11 July 2000 04:17 PM
Here is one reason why you might want your D and F levers on the left knee: those pulls do not use half tone stops. If you do use half tone stops for some other pulls such as lowering the D# string or raising the F#, they are much easier for the right knee which sits in one spot over the volume pedal. |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 11 July 2000 04:30 PM
I took a poll on this forum several years ago to find out what most players did. I then had one of my SGE staff members who is a statistician run some numbers on it. Over 60% of the respondent players raise the E's on LKL and lower the E's on LKR. This was all on D-10's. U-12's would surely change this I am sure because I believe most U-12'rs lower the E's on the right knee. Some U-12'rs (including myself), still lower the E's on LKR, but we are rare I believe. God bless you with whatever you do. carl |
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ToneJunkie Member Posts: 245 |
posted 11 July 2000 05:25 PM
Jonathan, I am also a beginner, but on a U12 rather than the E9 S10. I am with you all the way on trying to figure out what is standard, or most standard, or fairly common, or least abnormal... ...so as to not form too many bad habits or learn too many wrong things. But it's a jungle out there! Good luck to you! ------------------ |
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Tim Rowley Member Posts: 957 |
posted 11 July 2000 10:02 PM
Then you have a few guys like me who raise and lower their E's on the right leg. On my LeGrande I raise the E's with RKL, to F with a perfect Danny Hullihen half-stop, then F#; lower them with RKR. But on the old push-pull I still raise the E's with LKL and lower them with RKR which is the original setup it came with, all raises on left knee and all lowers on right knee. Oh well. Tim R. [This message was edited by Tim Rowley on 14 July 2000 at 08:33 PM.] |
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Jon Light Member Posts: 6528 |
posted 11 July 2000 10:57 PM
One thing that might render this a moot point is the reputation of ZBs for being difficult to work on. I have no first hand experience but if moving the levers over to the other side is unusually tough then you probably are best off settling for what you've got. Many players, myself included, have changed setups and although there are better things to do with your time than to relearn your standard moves, it's not all that big a deal. You are not making a lifetime commitment. I recommend playing the guitar and not worrying whether you are doing yourself harm. |
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Steve Allison Member Posts: 396 |
posted 12 July 2000 04:41 AM
Hey Jonathon, sit in a chair and take your right leg and pivot it in toward yourself and out away from yourself, (like you would be working knee levers) Did you feel yourself push down with your toe also? Put your most used or most common knee lever on your left leg and you won't push the volume pedal down with that natural reflex motion of your foot. This is just one problem that even the pro's have to overcome when working knee levers. Hope it helps you a little bit in your developing years. |
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Richard Sinkler Member Posts: 2896 |
posted 12 July 2000 06:58 AM
If the ZB has both right and left sets of knee levers, it is really not that difficult to just change the rods around. All it takes is patience and a little understanding of the linkage system. I've always had my E changes on my left knee. ------------------ |
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Dave Horch Member Posts: 628 |
posted 12 July 2000 08:11 AM
I use the standard Emmons set up, as shown at http://www.buddyemmons.com/info.htm . It's as close to a "standard" as you're going to find, IMO. I know there are good reasons for putting the E changes on different legs, but I'll stick with Buddy, thank you very much (plus I'll be able to sit behind 60% {Carl's number} of other guitars and not have to adjust). Also note the naming of the knee levers in this setup. Just as we read left-to-right, these levers are named D,E,F,G left-to-right on the guitar. The story I was told was that Jeff Newman did this, as he added another lever to his guitar, he'd just use the next letter of the alphabet. I know some people call the lever that raises the E's to F the "F" lever. Perhaps some folks call the lever that lowers the E's a "D" lever, 'cause the note is a D#? (not an E flat, the key of E has four sharps, no flats). I've learned to translate this to my setup when reading tab, but I sure wish we could agree on something (sure... like that's gonna happen!). Good luck and best wishes, -Dave ------------------ |
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Pete Burak Member Posts: 2750 |
posted 12 July 2000 10:02 AM
I think the standard setup for an S12U is the Jeff Newman setup. At least thats what Jeff told me.  (I think this is also the Carter standard).I've gone with a psuedo Bill Stafford universal standard myself (pedal 7 on a knee lever). Then there's the Larry Bell standard (pedal 6 on a knee lever). If you are intersted in learning S12U from instructional material I would take a look at both Jeff Newman and Joe Wrights setups at their websites (links are at b0bs links page). I had an S14U that had E raises and lowers on LKL and LKR (Emmons D10 standard). When you played in B6th you locked the E to Eb (LKR) and flipped it up out of the way, or, held LKR enguaged while you play the B6th pedals with the same leg. (tried it, not for me). I learned S12U basics from Jeff and Jeffs S12U book which has LKL E to F, and RKR E to D#. But it doesn't matter... as long as you have the right label on the right knee lever you can interperate other copedents. [This message was edited by Pete Burak on 12 July 2000 at 10:04 AM.] |
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Jonathan Gregg Member Posts: 178 |
posted 13 July 2000 09:13 AM
Thanks to all for the responses. But I'd still like to know some approaches to tuning (E9) using harmonics -- which string to start on (with a tuner), which fret harmonic against which, etc. regards, JG |
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John Drury Member Posts: 779 |
posted 13 July 2000 10:16 AM
Look in the back of the Pedal Steel Guitar book by Winnie Winston. John Drury |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 14 July 2000 05:57 AM
Jonathen, Do a search and look up Ernie Renns website on Buddy Emmons. He sells a recording that tells you how to tune using harmonics. It is my understanding that it is quite good. God bless you in your attempts, carl |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 15 July 2000 06:43 AM
I like the "E" changes on the right knee, and here's why... I use these changes a LOT! I use the A&B pedals a LOT. It made no sense to have my left leg doing 90% of the work, and my right leg 10%. I find keeping the "E" changes and the A&B changes on separate legs much more comfortable, and relaxing. And those "left leg contortions" that I see most players do are a non-issue for me! |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 15 July 2000 07:36 AM
Donny, I would luuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuv to have the lowering of the E's on my right knee. But I can't because of my copedent necessities. So I have to live with it on LKR. It works out ok. That is because it permits me to do so many other things. Adding a 2nd knee left and a 2nd knee right has become a must for me now. Alhough that 2nd RKR is really harder than I thought to get used to. In time I am sure I will. Just strugging with it now. Walk with him, and ALL things will be good, carl |
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Eddie Lange Member Posts: 662 |
posted 18 July 2000 07:14 PM
I like having the E lower on my LKR so that when I rock off my A pedal on to the B pedal, my knee goes the same way. ------------------ |
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