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Sho-Bud sound vs. Emmons sound (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Sho-Bud sound vs. Emmons sound (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Sho-Bud sound vs. Emmons sound |
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Lee unregistered Posts: 957 |
posted 10 August 2000 09:41 AM
Hi, all. I was just wondering what, in general, are the differences between Sho-Bud steels and Emmons steels in terms of tone/sou nd? I've been playing steel for the past year or so, and my only experience playing has been on my Sho-Bud Pro III (with a George L E-66). I love its tone, but I was just curious as to how the Emmons differs. Thanks,
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B Cole unregistered Posts: 957 |
posted 10 August 2000 10:32 AM
Like day and night also the push pull is far diffrent then the lagrand. personaly I believe the Fessenden out shines the showbud and the lagrande and it keeps right up with and sometimes out does the P+P and if you remove the E66 pickup and put in a L710 then you will be so much more in love with it you may kick your wife or girl friend out of bed and sleep with it instead |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 10 August 2000 10:59 AM
Now that's what I call giving someone a nice direct answer to a question. An in the same spirit, I would say that the difference between the Emmons sound and Sho-Bud sound is that I think the Godfather is the best movie of all time while others think that Citizen Kane is. |
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Larry Bell Member Posts: 4116 |
posted 10 August 2000 12:29 PM
Jeff:  All seriousness aside, listen to the 'Emmons Guitar Co.' ('Black') album by Buddy Emmons, then listen to 'Steel and Strings' or anything else Jimmy Day did in the 60s or 70s. Many consider the 'Black' album to be the 'essence of the Emmons push-pull sound' and most anything Jimmy Day or Lloyd Green recorded to be 'essence of Sho-Bud'. The Emmons sound (especially the push-pull) is brighter and the Bud is more mellow -- IN GENERAL. Of course you can crank the treble on a Bud and get all the brights you can handle and cut the highs on a push-pull to mellow it out. An Emmons LeGrande is somewhere in between to me, similar to a ZumSteel, to my ears. All guitars are different. Even within the same model and year you will find variation. It's hard to generalize and even harder to really describe tone in words. LTB |
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road runner unregistered Posts: 4116 |
posted 10 August 2000 12:34 PM
mullen, one smooth puppy,but there all good it depends on your style, and the sound you want, |
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rayman unregistered Posts: 4116 |
posted 10 August 2000 01:33 PM
I just switched to a Sho-Bud Pro-II from a pushpull. Both have incredible sound, just different. I grew up on the Sho Bud sound and always wanted one. The Lawrence L-710 pickup makes it sing like a bird. My Sho-Bud was custom rebuilt by Duanne Marrs and plays super smooth. I highly recommend Duannes refitting process for any older Sho-Bud guitars. He is a master rebuilder. |
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Lynn Kasdorf Member Posts: 185 |
posted 10 August 2000 01:44 PM
You know, its funny about tone. To me, the same guitar and amp with the same settings in the same room can sound different from one day to the next. Maybe it is humidity, maybe it is ear wax, I don't know. Tone is such a subjective thing. (can of worms time...) I played the LeGrande and the PP and I swear, they sounded the same to me! No difference in sustain, no basic tonal difference. Obviously they have different pedal&lever feel. But given the nightmare of changing the setup on a PP (this one had something like 8 or 9 levers, and had a Day setup and I play Emmons setup), I personally didn't think it was worth it. I quickly sold the PP! Now, it could very well be that other PP's do have a serious tonal advantage, but I still think it is mostly in the hands of the player! |
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Donny Hinson Member Posts: 9192 |
posted 10 August 2000 02:45 PM
I would characterize the Emmons P/P as a thin, bright, slightly "metallic" sound...(nothing to do with "Heavy metal" music", by the way!) There is a predominance of highs, with a sharp, thin midrange. Bass sound is clean, but lacking in "fullness". On the other hand, the Sho-Bud sound is fuller, and more round, overall. The highs are clean, but not as predominate, and the mids have more body. The bass is quite full. To generalize (in lead players' terms), I would say that the Emmons sound is similar to the sound of a Tele, using only the bridge pickup. While the Bud is more like an SG sound, using only the neck pickup. I'm sure that the long 1" steel bar across the front has something to do with the unique sound of the Emmons. The small changer also has some effect. I actually prefer the Emmons sound because it doesn't get "buried" when the rhythm section is too loud. It "stands out" nicely...very distinct. |
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Greg Vincent Member Posts: 727 |
posted 10 August 2000 03:18 PM
I have both and love both. I'll give you a simple answer, Lee: "Twang" vs. "Growl" Of course there are many exceptions, but this is how I have come to view these two excellent brands. GV |
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VERNONPRIDDY unregistered Posts: 727 |
posted 10 August 2000 03:27 PM
I don't think you can beat a sho-bud sound if it has reg. sho-bud pick ups on it. HANK. |
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Jeff Lampert Member Posts: 2636 |
posted 10 August 2000 04:05 PM
I wonder if anyone has a different opinion? ... hmmm. |
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Joseph Barcus Member Posts: 711 |
posted 10 August 2000 07:02 PM
Picks, Location, location, location ------------------ |
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 10 August 2000 10:58 PM
On new country radio Dan Dugmore plays a Sho-Bud and Sonny Garrish plays an Emmons. |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 10 August 2000 11:08 PM
Larry, I thought Jimmy Day recorded "Steel and Strings" on a Fender, tuned to D9th. The general difference, to my ear anyway, is that the Sho-Bud has more midrange than the Emmons. The Sho-Bud has a lot of that country "twang" to it. It's harder to fit into non-country recordings for that reason. ------------------ |
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KENNY KRUPNICK Member Posts: 1729 |
posted 11 August 2000 12:04 AM
Both are good. It's a matter of what you like. The Emmons p/p has a bright tone,and the Sho-Bud has a richer tone. To give you an example, listen to Buddy Emmons,The Black Album,and then listen to Loydd Greens,Loydds Of Nashville.That will give you a idea of the two. |
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 |
posted 11 August 2000 04:28 AM
Most of the Sho-Buds I've heard (excluding the ones on recordings) seem to either have a bassier sound or if they have the amp set on treble to get a brighter sound it seems tinny. Where, to my ears, the Emmons has a bright and clear but sweeter sound (except when someone sets their amp on all bass and ruins the sound of the guitar). Needless to say I'm not a fan of the Sho-Bud sound. But, it's a personal thing. To ask about the difference in sound is very subjective. If you like a Sho-Bud sound then it's going to be a "great" sound compared to ANY brand of guitar. Sort of like the thread about "MSA Rules". The originator of the thread obviously thinks the MSA is best, his own personal opinion. |
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Larry Bell Member Posts: 4116 |
posted 11 August 2000 06:48 AM
b0b, I thought it was a Sho-Bud D-8, but I could be all wet. If memory serves me, there's one on the liner notes of the CD I have, so that's what I assumed was used. (I don't remember if the notes mentioned what guitar he played, just seem to recall that there was a Bud on the cover) In any case, Jimmy Day's tone -- no matter what guitar he played -- was always reminiscent of Sho-Bud to me. It was like that sound was what he heard in his head. Same is true for Buddy and the Emmons sound. IMHO LTB |
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David Mullis Member Posts: 1413 |
posted 11 August 2000 07:06 AM
Well, y'all know I'm a Sho-Bud nut. I love my old Pro II. She's a little beat up, and the under carriage with the rack and barrel system is a little scary at 1st, but despite all that, she's suprisingly smooth and has tone for days! I'm also an Emmons fan. I started out on an old Push Pull student model and I've got to say it was one of the best sounding guitars I ever owned. I've finally managed to scrape the funds together to get another push pull. I should have it in a week or so and I can't wait to sit down behind it. I guess I have to flip a coin to decide which one to play out. Both are superior guitars. Maybe I'll put 'em on a rotation.  My 2¢ David [This message was edited by David Mullis on 11 August 2000 at 07:07 AM.] |
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John Steele Member Posts: 2469 |
posted 11 August 2000 12:14 PM
Interesting thread. Does anyone else find it kinda strange that Buddy Emmons so seldom recorded on a Sho~Bud, despite his involvement with the company ? -John |
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Tele Member Posts: 965 |
posted 11 August 2000 02:44 PM
What about "Nightlife" ??? I think he played a Sho-Bud D-10 on this recording and to me this sound RULES What did Buddy play on the Steel guitar jazz album? Also a great sound which I always connected with Sho-Bud?? Don't tell me I was wrong !!???? Andy |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 11 August 2000 10:05 PM
Hey Tele,if I remember, Buddy did that "steel guitar Jazz" on a Fender 2000. I laughed when I saw the picture of a Multi-Kord on the cover. They apparently didn't have a picture of the new Fender available..al |
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Steelruss unregistered Posts: 7471 |
posted 11 August 2000 11:58 PM
Al, that was done on an Emmons - however, Chalker played a Fender guitar to record "Big Hits On Big Steel', which showed a Sho-Bud on it's cover. ~Russ |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick Member Posts: 1234 |
posted 12 August 2000 07:35 PM
On the old album, Ernest Tubb Record Shop, Buddy played a Sho-Bud. I loved the sound of that guitar. I think it had 1/4 inch pedal rods. I also like the sound Buddy got on the Emmons guitars. Buddy could make a Supro steel sound great. |
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Bob Hoffnar Member Posts: 4278 |
posted 12 August 2000 10:49 PM
To my ear an Emmons has a more focused sound than a Sho Bud. The overtones don't ring past the 5th overtone so the sustain remains consistant. To me an Emmons has a strong low mid sound. Even in a cluttered mix or a loud bar and Emmons will cut and still sound meaty. A good Sho-Bud has a beautiful caracture to its tone. A subtle sweetness that in the hands of a good player sounds like a little bit of heaven. Strum the open strings of an Emmons PP with no amp and listen for how long it takes for the overtones to cascade. Then check the Sho-Bud out. Bob |
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chris ivey Member Posts: 1105 |
posted 13 August 2000 08:51 AM
i've always liked mr. emmons tone as a point to shoot for, however there was a cut or two in my past record listening career that crossed me up when it turned out to be lloyd green.....so it's the player that makes whatever instrument work. from that point on, and i advise younger players, spend more time playing than shopping and buying! |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 13 August 2000 09:08 PM
You've got a point there Chris. Consider the following for example... Buddy E. on an Emmons push-pull. On the other side of the coin, I'm sure we've all heard people play these same brands and absolutely murder the sound!!! ------------------ [This message was edited by Lem Smith on 13 August 2000 at 09:09 PM.] |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 14 August 2000 07:55 AM
Good point Les. But we must remember a statement Buddy made right here on this forum some time back when asked why he did not still play his Sierra. AS best I recall, he said something like this, "I have a sound in my head that only the Emmons guitar provides". So I must say that, while the player is certainly important, SO is the equipment. God bless, carl |
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Chris Bauer Member Posts: 1195 |
posted 14 August 2000 08:01 AM
Bottom line? Except for all the sonic the differences, these guitars sound exactly the same! |
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Lem Smith Member Posts: 1501 |
posted 14 August 2000 11:21 PM
Carl, while I have no doubt Buddy could tell the difference, I really have my doubts as to whether anyone else could listen to him play three different brands of steels and in a blindfold test, be able to tell any difference. Who knows tho...maybe like Chris just posted...they're all the same, only different! ------------------ |
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Rick Schmidt Member Posts: 1596 |
posted 15 August 2000 12:42 AM
Sometimes my old wood neck sho-bud reminds me of an old Hammond. |
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John Lacey Member Posts: 1843 |
posted 15 August 2000 08:50 AM
"while I have no doubt Buddy could tell the difference, I really have my doubts as to whether anyone else could listen to him play three different brands of steels and in a blindfold test, be able to tell any difference." Lem, I've heard some bad videos of Buddy playing at some steel show, mainly Scotty's Christmas shows on various guitars, namely a Sierra, and an EMCI. Personally, I like his tone better on the EMCI by far because it echoes his Legrande and PP tones more closely. IMHO of course. It also depends on how highly tuned your listening ear is. Now, having said that, I have difficulty telling the guitar differences between the Swing Shift projects. |
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Lefty Member Posts: 742 |
posted 17 August 2000 03:52 PM
If I buy another it will be an Emmons, but I would never sell my ShoBud. Its like a Telecaster and a Gibson ES335, both sound good, just different. The black Emmons album is the Emmons sound, as far as I am concerned. I tried to emulate the Emmons sound by using Emmons strings, and buying a solid state session 500 and using different settings to sound more "Emmons". Now I can appreciate the old sound I had with my ShoBud and a Fender Vibrosonic Reverb. Lefty |
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