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Emmons Setup (Page 2)
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The Steel Guitar Forum
Pedal Steel Archive
Emmons Setup (Page 2)
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| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
| Author | Topic: Emmons Setup |
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CT Member Posts: 8 |
posted 01 February 2001 05:34 AM
Can someone tell me exactly what Emmons Setup means? Thanks. ------------------ |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 01 February 2001 05:45 AM
Click here: http://www.buddyemmons.com/info.htm But remember, Buddy often changes his setup). So it just depends. However most of what you see in this link Buddy has had for a very long time. Also, the term Emmons "setup" versus the Jimmy Day "setup" has to do with the A and C pedals (and possibly LKL and LKR). Simply reverse them to get the JD setup. (little history: when Bud Isaacs set the world on fire with his one pedal changing an E tuning to an A tuning (E, B and G# became E C# and A with one pedal). This did not last long. Buddy Emmons "split" this one pedal into 2 pedals. Jimmy Day followed. For some reason Jimmy did it just the opposite than Buddy. From that day to this, players have referred to the tunings as the "Emmons" or "Day" setup.) God bless you, carl [This message was edited by C Dixon on 01 February 2001 at 05:48 AM.] [This message was edited by C Dixon on 01 February 2001 at 05:57 AM.] |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 01 February 2001 11:14 AM
"Emmons Setup" refers to the more common arrangement of the 3 standard E9th pedals. "Day Setup" is the reverse, sort of a left-handed version. These terms generally don't say much about the knee lever arrangement, but Buddy Emmons' LKL and LKR are very common among people who play the "Emmons setup". You can compare them on the links below: Buddy Emmons' E9th Jimmy Day's E9th |
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Bill C. Buntin Member Posts: 642 |
posted 01 February 2001 04:22 PM
More History. Someone told me a long time ago that when Jimmy Day created his first pedal guitar, he got A and C pedals mixed up.He evidently had no written instructions on how to rod and set-up his "new" guitar. I was told that he just hooked up the pulls for A on C and C on A. Not realizing it was backward from what Buddy and Shot were doing at Sho-Bud. The reason I posted this was to inquire, cause I've often wondered what the "REAL DEAL" is there. I bet Ernie Renn knows. The Big "E" knows the real story you can bet. But I would sure like the facts. Pedal Steel Guitar has as many fascinating facts as it does misconceptions. Regards. |
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Moon in Alaska Member Posts: 1155 |
posted 01 February 2001 04:31 PM
I think they both were playing cable rigs at that time. I read that Buddy disconnected the pull which raised both the B and G# and split them. I understand he was in some motel room. The story goes, he called Jimmy and told him. I have no idea if this is really what happened, maybe Buddy or Ernie might tell us the straight dope !! ") ------------------ |
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B Bailey Brown Member Posts: 606 |
posted 01 February 2001 07:30 PM
I heard the same story Moon heard, and I believe if you look in the forum archives Buddy confirmed it. Buddy and Jimmy were playing in different parts of the country and Buddy called Jimmy and told him about the change he had made. He never mentioned to Jimmy “which way” he split the pedals, but Jimmy thought it was a great idea, did the same thing…but, he split them the way that seemed right to him. Buddy rocked from right to left, and Jimmy rocked from left to right. Oh well, they BOTH “rocked” better than everybody else!  B. Bailey Brown |
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CT Member Posts: 8 |
posted 02 February 2001 05:57 AM
Thanks for all the help guys. I love this forum! I was laboring under impression since the 70's that the Emmons was set up different than the Sho Buds I've been playing. I live in a pretty sheltered world here! ------------------ |
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Tele Member Posts: 965 |
posted 02 February 2001 06:35 AM
Didn't Jimmy play a Wright back then? Was that one cable driven as well? and btw, wasn't that one up for sale a few months ago? Andy |
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 |
posted 02 February 2001 07:01 AM
I would like to take a poll: What stars including yourselves use the Emmons' versus the Day setup? I will list what I know. Feel free to add to and correct where I am wrong. Emmons' setup: Paul Franklin Lloyd Green Larry Sasser Doug Jernigan Tommy White Tom Brumley Bill Stafford Pete Drake Neil Flanz Tommmy Roots Winnie Winston DeWitt Scott Sr Jimmy Crawford Herby Wallace Day setup: John Hughey Hal Rugg Weldon Myrick Jeff Newman Curly Chalker I am sure I am missing some JD setups but my mind is a fog this morning. Don't forget to tell us what YOU use. Be interesting to find out. God bless you all, carl |
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Bill C. Buntin Member Posts: 642 |
posted 02 February 2001 07:21 AM
Carl, Lloyd Maines uses Day. Gary Carpenter uses Emmons. If you can get Herb Steiner to post on this. I bet he knows what most of the TX. Guys are doing. 2 other local Steel guys here in S'Ville, TX. both use Emmons. As I do also. I know a few guys who have tunings & pedal setups that don't really classify as Emmons or Day. Along with who plays what, I would be interested in each persons particular likes and dislikes about Emmons vs. Day. Several of my Steel friends in DFW area have just BEGGED me to switch to Day set-up. Thanks. |
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DALE WHITENER Member Posts: 192 |
posted 02 February 2001 07:27 AM
Tommy White uses Day setup not Emmons. |
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P Perry Member Posts: 415 |
posted 02 February 2001 08:56 AM
That's right T.W. does play the Day setup. I thought Jeff Newman played an Emmons setup. This could get real confusing. |
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Tim Rowley Member Posts: 957 |
posted 02 February 2001 04:19 PM
Jim Vest uses the Day setup. |
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slick Member Posts: 560 |
posted 02 February 2001 05:26 PM
I use the Emmons setup,and all Jeff's tab to "Just Jammin" is on the Emmons setup.John Hughey tabbed "look at us" on the Emmons setup.Maybe they play the Day setup but i cant understand why they would play it one way and tab it another,confusing!!! Wayne |
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Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
posted 02 February 2001 07:54 PM
Tab is the same for Day and Emmons setup. The position of the actual pedals is different, but the names are the same. The "A" pedal raises strings 5 and 10, and the "C" pedal raises strings 4 and 5. It doesn't matter whether you play Emmons or Day, the tab is the same. |
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Bobby Bowman Member Posts: 1271 |
posted 03 February 2001 08:51 AM
Terminology and/or definition is important here. Going back to the early and mid '60's may perhaps help to clarify and be more specific in explaining the term/s. If your question about "set up" is a logistical inquiery, that is, arrangement and placement of pedals and levers, then most of the above is correct. However, may I say that Jimmy Day's E-9'th arrangement of pedals and levers, except for the three floor pedals, is not at all what we commonly refer to as the "Day" setup. Now, if your question is more about "method" of set up, that is, the actual way a guitar is designed, built, assymbled and adjusted, then you have to look at the two dominant builders of the time, which was Sho-Bud and The Emmons Guitar Company. Sho-Bud basically had (after they finally settled on design) what is still to this day refered to as an "all pull" system. The pitch raise or pitch lower change of a string/s was done by a "one way direction" pull of the changer fingers (actuators). The "Emmons" set up method was a bit different. It pulled the changer finger for pitch raises and pushed the changer finger for pitch lowers,,,,thus the term, "push pull". Setting up, adjusting and tuning the two systems, from an "assymbly" viewpoint was quiet a bit different from each other. I've just "skimmed" the surface of all that is actually involved, but, it's a general description and comparison of "manual" set up. Thought I'd try to address both sides of the question and answer to your question. BB ------------------ |
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slick Member Posts: 560 |
posted 03 February 2001 05:05 PM
Bobby, Thanks for explaining that to someone who is kinda slow.I should have known that.Duuuh!!! Wayne |
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Bob Carlson Member Posts: 1063 |
posted 14 February 2001 04:32 PM
In a Jimmy Day interview he stated It was a lot easier to have the two pedals you use the most straight In front of his foot and couldn't understand why everyone didn't have them setup that way. I've read where a couple of short people have had the factory set up all their pedals one to the right. Bob Carlson Uff Da! |
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Al Marcus Member Posts: 7471 |
posted 16 February 2001 08:49 PM
I have heard that some sports medical doctors say it is a lot easier and more natural, more flexibility, for your ankle to go the Jimmy Day way. Try it without playing , just sit in a chair and put your left foot in front and rock it the A-B-C way then try the C-B-A way. Most ankles will do better with the Day Way. C-B-A. Another good advantage, is the B-A pedal are one over to the right, which as mentioned , more desirable. After saying all this and knowing better, I use the Emmons setup A-B-C. Why? Because most steels are setup that way. When I sat in on someones steel, it was almost always the Emmons setup.Remember the E to F knee can not be LR on that setup, but could on the Day setup.....al |
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