Author
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Topic: 3rd string breakage on all pull guitars
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Richard Plummer Member Posts: 235 From: nashville tennessee Registered: AUG 2000
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posted 18 February 2001 06:15 AM
I used to own a push pull emmons about 4 years ago.I noticed that I hardly ever had any 3rd string breakage.I owned before that a 1983 Zum.I noticed it was notorious for breaking strings,sometimes as little as 3 days depending how long I played. What is the secret for the lack of string breakage on a push pull to and all pull guitar? Emmons Legrande 3 users,do you go through 3rd strings quite a bit? Is this possibly a problem with maybe length on the neck to why there is frequent string breakage?Does Emmons Legrande 3 and even push pulls use a slightly shorter or longer neck length? Have the new Zums cut down on the frequent 3rd string string breakage? Richard
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Richard Plummer Member Posts: 235 From: nashville tennessee Registered: AUG 2000
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posted 18 February 2001 06:22 AM
Sorry for the double post.I didnt see it appear so I clicked again. 
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 From: Duluth, GA USA Registered:
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posted 18 February 2001 06:42 AM
My Emmons' P-P broke 3rd strings right and left. Rarely could I keep one on. So did my Sierra. So does my LeGrande II. I find it very interesting that some say their guitars do not break 3rd strings. Both Emmons' had a 24 and 1/4" scale and the Sierra had a 25" scale. But the Sierra was keyless which supposedly is suppose to lesson string breakage. Well, the Sierra broke them all the time. Worse than both Emmons'. My Excel Super B does NOT break strings. I have had it almost a year and still have the original 3rd string. This is characteristic of Excel's new changer. Same thing on the Anapeg. They simply do not break strings. This is due to the fact that their changers do NOT bend the strings to raise and lower. Instead, they pull the string in a straight line. God bless you, carl
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Dennis Detweiler Member Posts: 1700 From: Solon, Iowa, US Registered: DEC 98
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posted 18 February 2001 06:44 AM
I always concluded there were/is a few factors that cause breakage? The scale length and the radius of the changer finger. The old late 60s ShoBuds had a longer radius finger which made it look cam shaped and this caused less roll(bending) of the string. So caused less wear and breakage. I had one of those guitars and never broke the 3rd between changing the whole set. I have had 2 MSAs and had to change the 3rd after 3 nights of playing because it always broke on the 4th night. I own a 1983 Zum now and still change after 3 nights. Never owned an Emmons, so I don't have any theory on it. Dennis
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Larry Bell Member Posts: 4116 From: Englewood, Florida Registered:
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posted 18 February 2001 09:02 AM
I'm almost to the point of deciding there's very little rhyme or reason. I think the string god sends down a thunderbolt whenever he/(she?) decides to and out comes the peg winder.  I play my '69 S-12 push-pull on 2 or 3 gigs a week and it breaks 3rds and 5ths OFTEN. Sometimes they only last a couple of gigs or a couple of days. I changed all the strings about six weeks ago and the 3rd and 5th are still going. Definitely a record for that guitar. (now that I've mentioned it, one will probably break the next time I hit the B pedal) I know there's a lot of inconsistency among individual strings, even of the same manufacturer, bought at the same time. Many of us have mentioned going through two or three 011s before one will even tune up to pitch without breaking. Some strings may be slightly stronger at those stress points (like where it comes over the finger). Carl's right. Some mechanisms are more prone to breakage than others. My Zum broke far less strings than either of my late 60s Emmons guitars, but I still think there's some black magic in the equation.  LTB[This message was edited by Larry Bell on 18 February 2001 at 09:04 AM.]
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Jack Stoner Sysop Posts: 8119 From: Inverness, Florida Registered: DEC 99
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posted 18 February 2001 09:16 AM
3rd strings break. You change it and go on. I've found no "magic" cure for that. I know Carl says his Excel does not break strings, however I have a two friends with Excel's (keyless), one a relatively new one and one is an older model but they will break them and it doesn't matter what gauge.I did a job yesterday at Silver Springs park with an Opry Legends package show (we were the opening act) and the Nashville steeler, Jay (sorry Jay I forgot your last name), uses 3rd string and 5th string breakage as a guide to when to change sets.
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Pete Burak Member Posts: 2750 From: Portland, OR USA Registered: OCT 98
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posted 18 February 2001 09:34 AM
From the discussions we've had here on the forum over the years it seems that 3rd string breakage is more "string batch specific" (some string manufacturing product runs will never tune to pitch before breaking), "guitar imperfection specific" (burrs in either the changer finger or tuning key post), and "technique specific" (the ol' heavy heavy hand method ), than it is "brand specific". If you do a search for "string breakage" you'll find several threads of discussion and troubleshooting technique. [This message was edited by Pete Burak on 18 February 2001 at 02:13 PM.]
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Dennis Detweiler Member Posts: 1700 From: Solon, Iowa, US Registered: DEC 98
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posted 18 February 2001 09:55 AM
Yes and then the theory of which guage of 3rd breaks less. Some have the opposite results, but I have tried .012 and can't get through one nite of playing without it breaking. I tried .011 and it will break sometime into the second nite. I use .010 and can get 3 nites out of it. I've tried several brands of strings. Some brands break more often, but GHS seem to last as long as any of the other popular steel guitar brands. So....????? I gave up on finding the ultimate brand with the ultimate playing life. I think that some of us use the A and B pedal with our style of playing more than others. Or maybe some are on the C6th neck more than others? Those of us playing a U-12 are probably going to break the 3rd more often? Lots of if's and but's here. Dennis
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C Dixon Member Posts: 5912 From: Duluth, GA USA Registered:
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posted 18 February 2001 11:33 AM
Jack,There are different Excels. Unless they are "Super B" models, they will break strings just like ANY other PSG. The Super B's have a changer that just do not break strings unless the string is defective, of course. Bill Stafford has never broken a string nor have I in the case of the third string. I did have a defective 4th string that broke. I knew it was defective from the first because it always had that "zwiing" sound when strings are about to break. Also, I broke the 1st string. But in this case it was raising the string a whole tone on a knee lever that was used much too much to withstand that kind of pull. So I deleted that pull from the knee lever. Other than that, NO breakage in almost a year now. The standard PSG (no matter who makes it), is prone to breakage simply because the string is being bent to achieve raises and lowers. The Excel (Super B) models, and Anapegs to NOT do this. carl
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Steve Feldman Member Posts: 2983 From: Millbury, MA USA Registered: DEC 99
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posted 18 February 2001 12:34 PM
My Emmons PP breaks 3rd strings all the time. My other all-pulls hardly ever. And I've tried everything from polishing the top of the changer to using 0115 or 012 gauge strings. Like it was said above, that's just the nature of the beast for some guitars.
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