posted 30 June 2001 08:57 PM         

In the SGHOF thread I last posted the following message in response of previous posts that suggest that Bigsby or Harlin Bros. (Multi-Kord) were first:

Harlin Bros. vs. Gibson... I am too young to really make a statement here, but I lean towards Gibson. It seems true that Harlin Bros. must have had a Patent first (I don't have the date nor a copy of the Patent if somebody has it, I'd like to have it) as they did win a law suit against Gibson which forced to Gibson to go back and issue later models with a raise or lower only changer (vs. the previous raise and lower changer).
Based on the little information I have about the Gibson side of the story, the invention was brought to the attention of Gibson by a machinist by the name of John Moore, an amateur player of Winsted, Connecticut (and apparently also guitar teacher in Ohio) before or during WW-II. Prototypes were made at the Gibson factory in Kalamazoo during the war and Wilbur Marker demonstrated the Gibson Electraharp in 1944. Commercial release of the early Gibson Electraharp was officially may have been only after the end of WW-II (?) . As I understand, Alvino Rey was also heavily involved into the whole deal (now, here's one fella I'd like to spend an afternoon noon with, drinking tea and listening to old stories! ).
One fellow Forumite, Al Marcus, with whom I have been so fortunate to be able to exchange a couple of e-mails on this subject, could probably share some more insight, as he played an early Electraharp (right Al?) for many, many years.

I have had much less insight into the Harlin Bros. history. Maybe that's why I still lean towards Gibson...

Anyway, I would really wish we could start a new thread about all this, as this is a very dear subject to me and I would really like to see the "enigma" resolved.

As for metal necks: I think it was fellow Forumite David Wright, son of pioneer guitar builder Chuck Wright (right, Wright?) that not too long ago posted a catalog picture of a PSG that had surprising similarities to a Bigsby (yes, one piece key-head-metal-necks) but was dated some time in the late '40's. Bigsby's first PSG was built for my hero Speedy West sometime in the mid '50's (and didn't actually even yet bear the "Bigsby" logo).

posted 01 July 2001 09:01 AM         

The only way I can top "that one" is with a

Love you man!

JD, I have NO authoratative knowledge of the origin of the PSG at all. I will just share with you what I saw in 1947. My teacher in Chicago had received a Multi-Kord from the factory to "try out". She was extrememly intriqued by this "new" toy. Reasons being; she had invented the "Grande LeTar" several years earlier and had a company in Chicago build it for her.

This LeTar had 6 necks. Yes 6! It was on a large console similar to a marimba body only shorter. And there were 6 necks. 3 in a row like a triple neck Fender and 3 more to the right of those 3 necks. She had to stand up to play it.

My teacher, Latricia Kandel was a finished musician, sight read flawlessly (even symphony music) and played this Grand LeTar for the infamous Paul Whiteman orchestra in the 30's and early 40's.

Because the Multi-kord had six pedals, she was very excited about this pedal steel. She could emulate on one neck, the 6 tunings she had on her large console "Grande LeTar". As far as I knew, this was THE first Pedal steel guitar ever! At least that was the talk in Latricia's studio at that time.

Much later in the late 50's I saw a brand new Gibson Electraharp triple neck with pedals attached ONLY to the middle neck. Upon looking at its mechanism, I was amazed to notice it looked JUST like the Multi-Kord my teacher had received to try out in 1947!. I wondered at the time, "Who stole? Gibson or the Harlen Bros?"

My very unofficial guestament is probably Gibson stole it. I am not sure we will ever know for sure.

On a similar note, history teaches that Adolf Rickenbacher invented the guitar pickup. He even was issued a patent on it in August of 1937. But there is a man on the west coast whose name eludes me now who is supposedly the son of a man who he says IS the inventer of the pickup and that Richenbacker stole it. This man says he has the documentation to prove this.

Who knows? Records back in those days were not kept on discs A similar story has gone on for years between the old "National" company and the Dobro company. Did National in fact invent the resonator guitar? Or did the Dopyera Bros invent it? Each says THEY did!

This conrtoversy has shaded many inventions. AND it is higly conceivable that it could be a natural coincidence. Two people who have NEVER seen each other living hundreds or even thousands of miles apart inventing the same thing at or near the same time. Higly possible since creatures do tend to evolve similarly.

But one thing is for sure: There is NO doubt in my mind IF any one can get to the bottom of it, J D Sauser can. The most thorough and conclusive person I have ever met. And I love him dearly.

God bless you JD (you too Mike), and your precious family,

posted 01 July 2001 11:33 AM         

George Beauchamp, Paul Barth and Adolph Rickenbacker formed Ro-Pat-In Corporation and went into production making electric guitars,"Electro String Instruments, Manufactured by the Ro-Pat-In Corporation" starting in August 1932. George ran the instrument manufactuning and Adolph ran the metal shop.
From The Complete History of Rickenbacker Guitars by Richard Smith

Another very influential innovator was one of our own, Alvino Rey. Alvino was the probably the most 'visable' steel player who wanted pedals and my understanding was that he who convinced Gibson to put pedals on the Electroharp around 1938. It was Paul Bigsby, though who made pedals on steel guitars practical. He delivered Speedy's guitar in Feb 1948. Paul made one guitar a month and at one time had a backlog of 2 years. This opened the door for other manufacturers, like Chuck Wright. Paul made nonpedal guitars before that, the first T-8 going to Joaquin Murphey.

[This message was edited by chas smith on 01 July 2001 at 11:47 AM.]

posted 01 July 2001 02:12 PM         

and one that precedes the Harlin patent by 11 years, the Freeman patent:

US patent # 02122396 ** year: 1938

John Fabian
Carter Steel Guitars
www.SteelGuitar.com

[This message was edited by John Fabian on 01 July 2001 at 02:14 PM.]

posted 01 July 2001 09:38 PM         

So, Speedy's Bigsby was '48. That's a new one to me! Good! Thanks for the correction, Chas.

Carl, the events around 1947 you are sharing with us, still place the Multi-Kord after the cration of the Gibson Electraharp.
The T-8 Gibson Multi-Harp guitar you later saw was a post law-suit model, which could only raise or lower.
I can't wait to see that LeTar on e-bay some day... . Thanks, Carl!

posted 01 July 2001 09:46 PM         

As I was playing lap steel in 1936, at the age of 15, I and old timers like Jerry Byrd (he is about a yr or 2 older than I)saw this all unfolding.

Gibson was first with the Electra-Harp, it had 8 strings and 6 pedals staggered across the left side, with steel rods hooked to the pedals which pulled down a bar across the changer fingers with 8 holes for raising and 8 holes for lowering.

Any string that you wished to activate, you put a screw in the hole , the further down the longer the pull.

It was very simple and easy to change a tuning pull right on the job if you wished.

The pedals pushed hard compared to today's steels. You had to sit a little sideways facing your left. Not too bad.

It was a large cabinet down to the floor on three sides , all birdseye maple with matched walnut inserts in the front and sides. Very beautiful .

I sold mine in 1965 to a teacher John Moore , Cinncinati ,who had a hand in developing it.

Terry McCarty Pres. of Gibson told me after my discharge from the army in WWII where I could get one used as they were out of production forever for that model.They stopped in 1941-42 and never resumed building it.

I bought mine in 1946 from a music store in Schenectady, New York .I paid more than it cost new, and worth it! I saw Alvino Play his and knew what it could do for me.

Alvino Rey had been playing one since about 1939 and he played all the great tunes and big chords that you hear now being played on the C6 neck. Only he did it in E6.

Multi-Kord came out with theirs much later on and it had almost exactly the same tuning head(changer) but they had lock nuts on the screws so they wouldn't move and go out of tune easily. I would say that was a plus.

But they had a foldup guitar with a case and use some cables instead of rods to pull the changer bar, and that was no good , as far as I was concerned. Not stable enough, etc.

A previous post mentioned that Paul Bigsby made the first "Practical" pedal guitar. But actully Alvino Rey was showing the way playing "practical" and very good Pedal guitar, years before Bigsby came out with pedals.

I contacted Paul Bigsby when he came out with his and his tunings possible were very limited.

The Gibson I had could raise and lower any string on any pedal, if you had the leg muscle to push it.

So I used the same complicated tunings that Alvino Rey did to copy his records, etc.

Just like the players do now for the great players of today, such as Paul Franklin, BE, and Reece of course.

posted 02 July 2001 08:20 AM         

You make good points. Also, we now see that the pedal steel guitar dates back as far as 1938! Wow! And who knows sring pullers may have even preceded the steel guitar. In fact I know they did. Doesn't the Harp as used in Symphony orhestras use pedals which change the strings pitch? If so, how far back was this device invented?

So from a strictly mechanical point of view who knows when the first string pitch changer was invented?

I would have this comment. Even though Alvino Rey (and others) used a form of PSG way back, the PSG as we know it, did not begin until the 50's when Bud Isaacs shook the world with his awesome sound on "Slowly".

Plus the incredible things that came along shortly therafter, with the likes of Jimmy Day, Buddy Emmons and Walter Haynes.

"That sound" that most of us love soo dearly was NOT done prior to the 50's. While there are still Multi-Kords (and others) out there, I think it safe to say that what most of us mean when referring to a PSG is the "slowly" sound. NOT the "tuning change" type of PSG as Alvino or Speedy used.

posted 02 July 2001 10:54 AM         

quote:

---

Concerning the modern pedal steel guitar: Buddy has put more into it than almost anybody. He's come up with so many
things, most of which will probably never be known, because he doesn't want to toot his own horn. He told me that
most of it nobody would believe anyway.

---

posted 02 July 2001 03:59 PM         

Using the formica finish. (He wanted a burn resistant finish.)

The standard bar size. (7/8") (When Buddy came to Nashville, everyone was either using a small bar, or make-shift bars made from piston sleeves or whatever gave them a better sound. Buddy had his Dad make three different size bars at Bendix, send them to him, and he passed them out to guys like Jimmy Day, Walter Haynes and Ben Keith. They caught on and it wasn't long before his Dad had to make a few more bars for the other players they hung out with. Between that and the machinists around Nashville, the bar they settled into back then became the standard size for today.)

Pete Drake's talk box. (Neil Wilburn and Buddy came up with it in it's rare form. At a session, I think for Danny Boy, Buddy wanted to have the steel make the words come out. They tried a few different things and finally scrapped the idea for it because it distorted too much. Pete Drake was at the session. Pete obviously solved the distortion problem.)

Connecting the volume pedal to the pedal rack. (To be able to move on and off the stage without having to grab the pedal, too.)

That's just a few. It makes me wonder what all was tried and let go by the wayside, like the talk box.

That's all I'm gonna say...

posted 02 July 2001 08:34 PM         

I sometimes asked myself who came up with that V-Emmons logo and wouldn't be surprised to hear it was BE (again).

Buddy Emmons has done more than what we can suspect. Luckily, he's around and has blessed us with his insight so many times here on this Forum.
But as you said Ernie, he probably won't toot his own horn here... so, Ernie... you do the job OK?
Thanks!

I am still hoping we'd get some more input about the real early stuff:
We've heard from Al about Gibson (thanks Al, I knew you'd bite ). Maybe somebody else can contribute some more about that(?).
Also some "up-close" insight for the Harlin Bros. point of view would be a nice addition.
Then, we'd need to move up to the Bigsby/Wright times (maybe there even are others?).
The uprise and fading of Fender in our field.
And finally the "Nashville" fase of it all: Sho~Bud, Emmons... the "all pull changer" and such. We'd have to talk about people like Buddy Emmons, Shot Jackson, Bud Carter, Zane Beck, Paul Franklin Sr., Duane Marrs... and all the other people.

posted 03 July 2001 06:52 AM         

I do not believe anyone but Buddy could have captured that sound so perfectly as he did. If you have never seen that movie, rent it and after you have seen it, get the two album 1977 ISGC set and listen to how Buddy did that tune. Spine tingling does not begin to descibe its affect.

The use of the Fender echo-plex on "Witches brew" is an incredible feat. If dem aint bubbles comin outa dat amp I aint in Dixie!!

Just two more of this man's unbelievable talents. He truly epitomizes the ole saying,

"When ya think of it, he has already forgotten it!"

Course Jimmy Day would follow that with,

"He aint forgot NOTHIN!"

God bless him, the late JD and all of you,

carl

posted 03 July 2001 12:06 PM         

The biggest problem in the smaller pickup was in having to put fewer winds on it so it would fit under the strings. With the two pickup sounds combined, the notes behind the bar would be of a lesser volume, which diminished the effect I was going for. It was definitely a once in a blue moon effect, but when the time came for it, nothing else came close to the sound.