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This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 This topic was originally posted in this forum: Pedal Steel |
Author | Topic: MSA's history......a clearification! |
Reece Anderson Member Posts: 1371 |
![]() ![]() Over the past few days there have been several discussions about early MSA guitars, how they were designed, and who was responsible for them. I’ve received many questions in those discussions, and many more via private e-mail. I’ve decided to post my response in a separate thread instead of answering each question and taking up more space. In appreciation of those who worked with MSA, some whom have passed on, and as past president of the corporation, I have an obligation to present and maintain accurate information relative to the history of MSA. I have done so in the past, and will continue. In so doing when necessary and possible I will provide documented evidence, statements by credible people, a timeline, and a logical premise with which to consider. I’m sure we can all agree time has the ability to erode, distort, and in some cases, erase memory. Considering the fact MSA was born 39 years ago, naturally things can become a little hazy, and therefore need to be examined when a question arises or a comment is made which is in conflict with the truth of MSA’s history. After reviewing existing records, and having conversations with different people connected with MSA in the past, the following is my response to comments recently made on this forum, which I most certainly construe as having been well meaning and intended. It is anyone’s right and prerogative to consider MSA as being produced in “series”. This however was never contemplated or eluded too within the confines of MSA, or anything I have ever written concerning the history of MSA. Everything MSA produced from day one was considered by MSA to be that of an evolutionary process, not defined by “series” relative to a timeline. The seeds were sewn for MSA prior to 1963, however since I was not involved in a business relationship with any of the other parties before that time, I will abstain from comment. I can however say, of the two who were to my knowledge previously involved, and since Danny Shields has passed away, I would consider Tom Morrell as the authority, prior to 1963. MSA was the last name initials of the three men who formed MSA in 1963. Those same three signed on the original “financial assistance loan” with which to begin production, and those same names were also included in “state filing for business” records. Those names were, Morrell, Shields and Anderson. (MSA) Concerning comment about Chuck Wright and his association with MSA. Chuck is a dear friend and an extremely hard worker who loves steel guitar. He was a great steel guitar builder, a talented player, and not only a pioneer of the industry, but an innovator as well. Chuck joined MSA in 1969. It was decided upon his coming here, that he would complete a few orders he had for the “Wright Custom” steel guitar. While here he started production on a new guitar called the Imperial, which MSA sold. MSA had no input into the design of his “Imperial” guitar, nor did he have any relative to the MSA design. I have never heard the term “Stan Bennett design” attached to MSA. Stan Bennett was president of Micro, and I was president of MSA. A short time after meeting we decided it would be mutually beneficial were we to form a new corporation, which we named MSA Micro Inc. Stan is one of my dearest friends, most certainly a man of unquestionable character, faith and conviction, and one of the people I most admire. He would be the first to acknowledge the fact he was not the designer of the MSA guitar. Bobbe S. indicates a time line in which he left Dallas, and he did so prior to Bud Carter’s arrival at MSA in 1964. This timeline has been verified during a recent conversation with Bud. Bobbe so stated: “Some folks we built guitars for were Bobby Garrett, Don Helms, Doyle Grissom, Snazz Wall and that’s when I woke up, moved to Nashville”. I have production records in my possession written in Tom Morrells hand writing, that verify the guitars made for Bobby Garrett and Don Helms were produced years after Bobbe left. The records verify without question that Don Helms guitar is serial number 2-0005 completed on July 28th 1967, and Bobby Garretts guitar, serial number 2-0010 was completed on November 1st 1967. These records and Bobbe’s statement indicate the erosion of a timeline. Again I must reiterate, it is not my intention to be condescending, but to maintain a correct history. We will all agree anyone can make a mistake or get events mixed up which happened almost four decades ago. I was working at McCord Music in Dallas when I made the decision to become involved in building steel guitars. However, immediately upon making the decision to do so, I terminated my employment at the music store and began devoting full workdays to MSA. My doing so was essential to get a new business started, therefore logic will dictate this as being true. In addition to working at the music store 6 days a week, I was also playing 6 nights a week. My playing job then became my only income source until MSA began production. I regret the possibility this response statement runs the risk of being construed as a conflict, or condescending to anyone, when in reality such is not intentionally intended or implied, nor do I interpret any premeditated intent to distort on the part of anyone. I encourage and appreciate questions and comments about MSA either on the forum or privately, and in no way should the necessity of this response be an indication of any change in my positive attitude or demeanor when encouraging your continued questions, comments, and inquiries about MSA or its history. |
Ann Fabian Member Posts: 1730 |
![]() ![]() ![]() 1971 - 1983 |
Bob Carlson Member Posts: 1063 |
![]() ![]() That's some real hard evidence to dispute. I'm going to put you In a hard spot Reece. Are you saying Bobbe worked for MSA, but was never an owner, or that he was never involved with MSA In any way?. Bob Carlson. |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() How do you make a smiley face? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:26 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Huh? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:23 PM.] |
Richard Gonzales Member Posts: 476 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe; Your statement "WHAT DIFFERENCE DOES IT MAKE" It does not make any difference in this day and age. Reading Reece's reason for making this post was to satisfy the many questions he was getting via Email. Being the gentleman he is, I believe he was trying to answer the question to the best of his ability. Reece being president of MSA, would be the person I would seek out to answer that question. He did say that so much time passed that there could be margin for error. You are both admired by the Forum, so let there be PEACE! |
Reece Anderson Member Posts: 1371 |
![]() ![]() My mission statement is crystal clear, as are my intentions and motivations for my statements. Should anyone want to discuss this further on a personal level, I will be delighted to do so. May I assure everyone, peace will most certainly prevail relative to my participation in this matter. |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Richard, thanks for the nice words and please take all this in the manner it was intended, humorous! I really enjoyed our visit while in Mass. How many miles on your pretty Corvette now? Robert [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:28 PM.] |
Richard Gonzales Member Posts: 476 |
![]() ![]() 9,200 mi.in dry weather. Amen! |
Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
![]() ![]() Actually Bobbe, and just for clarification, I believe corporations legally MUST have at least three officers; a president, secretary, and treasurer. The CEO, among others, is an office or officer created by the corporation to run the actual business... the CEO could be the president, but not necessarily (insert chorus of "It Ain't Necessarily So" here ![]() I think in small business corporations, like my wife's Barton Creek Animal Clinic, Kathy is president, secretary, treasurer, and sole stockholder. Okay, go back to the history lesson... Herb out.
------------------ [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 22 January 2002 at 12:17 PM.] |
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
![]() ![]() When was MSA incorporated? |
Andy Alford Member Posts: 841 |
![]() ![]() Did the S in MSA stand for Seymour? |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Only at the very first. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 22 January 2002 at 01:57 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:30 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Kenny Davis,Are you still working for the state of Oklahoma? Do they still let you out days? What time do you have to be back at night? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 22 January 2002 at 01:36 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 22 January 2002 at 02:03 PM.] |
Kenny Davis Member Posts: 779 |
![]() ![]() Sounds like someone needs to revoke someone's "day pass" from the "home"! |
Andy Alford Member Posts: 841 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe, This would be a dull world if you were not in it.Its no wonder that you are the Forumite of any year,and you can play any steel guitar with or with out pedals. |
Kenny Davis Member Posts: 779 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe: What? Why are you raggin' on me??? I have too much initiative to work for the state! You know I love you man - |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Relax Kenny, I just wanted to see if you were awake! I know you don't work for the state, I got my day pass from Norman OK. (know what I mean?) I miss Oklahoma.I guess I really love Oklahoma. I spent four years in Muskogie one night. I played a lot of dances with Merle Linsey,"Famous" Amos Headrick, Johnny Lee Wills, Billy Gray, even played there with Paycheck and Price after I moved to Gnashville! I NEVER ever worked with Hank Thompson! All my good buddys have though, I sort of wanted to, I knew all the arrangments, never got to use them. They didn't work to well with the Connie Smith show. Best wishes Kenny! R.K.S. |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Kenny, Do you still work for the factory that builds manure spreaders? I heard the rumor that you won't stand behind your product, is this true? A man should stand behind what he sells. |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Huh? [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 22 January 2002 at 05:21 PM.] |
Michael Garnett Member Posts: 893 |
![]() ![]() Hey, Mr. Seymour- Got any grapes?
|
bob drawbaugh Member Posts: 636 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe must use the same logic to define a president as he does to define a factory, fuzzy logic. ![]() ![]() |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Bob Drawbough, Wait 'till your neighbers get wind of this , Just kidding, have a good day. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 22 January 2002 at 05:23 PM.] [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:34 PM.] |
Kenny Davis Member Posts: 779 |
![]() ![]() OK Bobbe, I'm back....You know, some of us have to work! Ha! Strange, you must have forgotten about that manure spreading biz...You tried to buy it from me back in the early 60's with "1st Series" stock in a Dallas guitar company! Remember??? Oak Cliff??? I always thought it was strange that you left around the time Oswald was down there!!! Just kidding!!! Anyway, when you goin' to race me??? I'll put either one of my '71 Mach 1's against either of your pentastar weaklings!!! I'm givin' up 89 cubes, but not to worry! Did that Plymouth have a V-Tail??? Or did I confuse it with one of your 3 wheeled machines??? Did M.W. drop off a case of H.A.R. for you to sip on the last time he was there??? Jump in anytime Mike!!! Really, are you sure it wasn't McAlester instead of Norman??? Did you really play with Merle Salathiel (Lindsey)??? He must have had more steel players than Bob Wills had band members!!! I've played with Amos Jr. cause I'm a lot younger than you I guess!!! Connie Smith???I'm JEALOUS!!!!!!!!!!I'm exhausted!!!I can't keep up with you!!!You're truly the Master of Your Domain!!!!(that's what Sienfeld says)You're the best!!!No kidding!!! |
Mike Weirauch Member Posts: 3528 |
![]() ![]() If he's tough enough to sip on H.A.R., no wonder he always has a young girl on his arm. That stuff will make you perpetually hard forever! ![]() ![]() ......For those who don't know, H.A.R. stands for Hard As a Rock embalming cavity fluid. Kenny, that stuff was some mean fluid! |
Kenny Davis Member Posts: 779 |
![]() ![]() ![]() |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Kenny Davis,You are killin me!!! You know more about me than I do!! I had better treat you good! Weirach,I'll get you later, You guys make my sides hurt! Robert!!! |
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe, it seems to me that if you bailed before the company incorporated, you were not a part of the MSA company. That's just my opinion. It sounds like you helped build some guitars in a garage before MSA became a "real" steel guitar company. You say that you were the "S" in MSA, and that you left before Maurice (the "A") came along. Frankly, that makes no sense to me. I wasn't there, and I really don't care one way or the other, but some people do. If you're the "S" in MSA, who is the "A"? ------------------ |
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
![]() ![]() Bobbe said quote:Hey, I remember not being around at that time too! Seriously, what were these guitars called? They couldn't have been MSA's because there was no 'A'. |
Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
![]() ![]() I have a theory: the first "A" was either Milwaukee Braves star Henry Aaron, or if not him, then great Italian film actress Anna Magnani. Both were interested in building pedal steels at that time, I understand. Oh yeah, gotta add these just in case anyone gets TOO serious on us here! ------------------ |
David Wright Member Posts: 1863 |
![]() ![]() I'm with bOb on this one.... ------------------ |
TS MCDONALD Member Posts: 122 |
![]() ![]() David, "My Man", KD, and b0b!!!!! Gentlemen, I agree completely with your statements, perceived assessments, and responses!!!!! "b0b", as you are "The Head InTerLocutor", I am certain that anyone who "Peruses" your most "Astute" analogy of the R. Seymour posts within this thread, much like "The Grand & Magnificient Peregrine",would agree... It is most "Refreshing"!!!!!As "Adolph" once stated, "Vas Ist, Ist"????? Versthense, Meinen Freunde!!!!"Edited by R. Seymour, aka, rks" Ts [This message was edited by TS MCDONALD on 23 January 2002 at 11:38 AM.] [This message was edited by TS MCDONALD on 23 January 2002 at 11:40 AM.] [This message was edited by TS MCDONALD on 23 January 2002 at 11:49 AM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() , We all live and learn! Some of us in diffrent ways than others. [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:38 PM.] |
Herb Steiner Member Posts: 6119 |
![]() ![]() I'm still sticking to my Hank Aaron Theory! ------------------ |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() David Wright, I think I am too! Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:39 PM.] |
BobbeSeymour Member Posts: 5664 |
![]() ![]() Herb, I totally agree on the serious thing. None of this is very serious, and will effect no ones income, happiness, or well-being in anyway in the future. Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 24 January 2002 at 08:41 PM.] |
Jim Phelps Member Posts: 2936 |
![]() ![]() . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 06:58 PM.] |
Bobby Lee Sysop Posts: 14849 |
![]() ![]() If the company was founded before it was incorporated, who took out the original business license? What was the business called before it was MSA Micro, Inc.? I don't mean to be "taking sides". I'm just curious. I started a band called "The Western Rhythm Gang" in 1978. I left the band in 1980, but the drummer continued it with a different set of musicians for 20 years. I couldn't use the name because he was using it, even though I came up with it originally. He is still one of my best friends, and there are no hard feelings at all. I hope that Bobbe and Reese feel the same way. ------------------ [This message was edited by Bobby Lee on 23 January 2002 at 02:06 PM.] |
Jim Phelps Member Posts: 2936 |
![]() ![]() . [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 17 November 2004 at 06:59 PM.] |
Jim Eaton Member Posts: 1036 |
![]() ![]() I'm starting to feel a little bit guilty about my original post asking about the design of the underside of the oldest MSA I'd ever run across. I didn't mean to start a whole big mess between Bobbe & Reece with everyone else "taking sides" & "pointing fingers". Sorry Reece & Bobbe. JE:-)> |
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