quote:

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Dave, You said: "Poco was like the Eagles farm team". At the risk of gettin' flamed, I say this: Although the
Eagles were a hugely popular band, I like to think that Meissner and Schmidt left to join Poco's farm team. Poco had "mined" a sound that was largely duplicated several years later by the Eagles. Especially the latin influences.
Poco's problem with popularity was that their sound was too traditionally country for pop and too rock-sounding for country. And I think that translating their sound into hard financial return proved to be too difficult of a problem for Epic's marketing people to solve. Clearly, the talent and inovation was there for Poco to be as fabulously successful a band as the Eagles were (are?).

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I have no issue with the evaluation of Poco's commerciality issues... they were an immensely talented group- as witnessed by the successes of some members who moved on... Messina with Loggins, the bass crew at different times with the Eagles, the short lived Souther Hillman Furay band...

perhaps you fear someone might come to the defense of the Eagles as country rock innovators?

I think not... they assimilated and popularized , but did not particularly innovate until "Hotel California" IMO.

just my 2 cents, and I think we are in agreement on the subject for the most part

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"I AM ZUMBODY!"

Zumsteel U12 "Loafer" 8&6 :: Fender T-8 Stringmaster :: Fender Tube Amplification
www.voicenet.com/~vanallen/ :: vanallen@voicenet.com

Please forgive my remarks if I misunderstood your point. My response was not directed at you personally, but to the forum as a whole. Your comparison of the "farm team" just caught my attention because of its accuracy and irony.

I was "spouting-off" because I have always felt that Poco has never gotten the level of recognition that the Eagles have. Inspite of the fact that they predated the Eagles and innovated alot of the style that the Eagles are known for. My remark about being "flamed" was directed more toward Eagles devotees.

I think your point is well taken and very astute. I was just compounding it with my two-cents.

quote:

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what the heck more do you want??

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Intresting stuff, especially for those of us who thought we knew our Country-Rock history!

Steven Stills used to play with Don Felder in 1960! Neil Young used to play with guys from Steppenwolf! Whodathunkit?

BTW, I remember when Leadon left the Eagles he was quoted as saying he "left to pursue a career in music," so I guess we know where he stood on their new direction.

Not long after it came out, the INS found out that Zal Yanofsky (lead guitar) was in the country on an expired work permit. They raided his house one night and threatened him with immediate deportation unless he turned over his pot supplier, which he did. Word got out, and that was NOT favorably received. Even Lenny Bruce said he ought to be forgiven, but he never was and was soon replaced by Jerry Yester-and the band fell apart soon after. Yanofsky amde some solo albums which were actually pretty good, but has vanished. Sebastian disappeared for 2 years and then turned up backstage at Woodstock with a guitar and a bunch of songs. He spent 3 days going on in between acts and jamming with everyone in sight, and released a solo album (on which he was backed on steel by one Buddy Emmons for "Rainbows all over Your Blues", and on which Emmons actually played a Moog Synthesizer on one song!) which kicked off a pretty solid solo career, capped by Tarzana Kid, which contains "Faces of Appalachia", perhaps his finest work.(That album was produced by Llowell George, incidentally)

He currently is working with another jug band and touring the East Coast. It's a high energy act, and Sebastian is fun live. One of my favorite songs is one he plays on an 8 string guitar called "Freezing from the Inside Out". Growing up on the island, he was my favorite singer-songwriter.

john

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Better Late than Never!
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

[This message was edited by JB Arnold on 06 January 2001 at 08:04 PM.]

Rich, by early.. I mean early.
Poco's debut LP 'Pickin' Up The Pieces' with the original line-up (although by this stage Randy Meisner was with Ricky Nelson, so he wasn't credited as a member).
It mixed a lot of country rock meets Buffalo Springfield type rock outs, at times very mellow and simpy beautiful. While at other times they sound like a West Coast version of the Small Faces.. with much better harmonies.

Early FBBS, well te first three albums from 1969 to 1971 are awesome, although I do prefer the debut LP 'The Gilded Palace Of Sin' from 1969.

Well, what I heard, and what got reported thru the musicians I knew on the island was that Zally got forced out by the label, who were convinced that their hot property would never sell another record. Record contracts in those days were slave labor agreements, and while I'm sure they made Sebastian do the dirty work, the label was behind it. The Spoonful were a very hip act at the time, and losing your cache was about the worst thing that could happen. Yester was the wrong guy, and I think John probably saw the end of the road coming at that point. It's a shame, because unlike a lot of those bands, the Spoonful had a solid, commercial and prolific writer in Sebastian and a lot of friends in the industry-they could have gone for a while, and I think we missed something by not hearing them mature as artists. They had great sense of what worked-for instance, on "Summer in the City", they simply couldn't get a big enough reverb on the drums to make them happy. So they moved the whole kit and mics into the stairwell of a 6 story building and played them on one of the landings. Now THAT'S reverb, and that's how they got that distinctive sound on there. In the 60's, that kind of thing was a major event, and cost a lot of $$. The gear wasn't as portable as it is now. You had to have some real pull to get that okay'ed by the label, and the spoonful had that pull, and creative control to boot.
All in all, a sad end to a potentially great story. I still have all those LP's, and they hold up remarkably well today-the litmus test for good material.

I don't think Zally got deported, but there wasn't much for him to do here, so I think he eventually left anyway-as Jason pointed out, he has turned up here and there-with Kristofferson and others. But never as high profile as Sebastian was later.
John

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Better Late than Never!
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

[This message was edited by JB Arnold on 07 January 2001 at 08:52 AM.]

There's Something Happening Here: The Story of Buffalo Springfield - For
What It's Worth
by John Einarson, Richie Furay (Contributor)

Our Price: $15.95

THIS TITLE IS CURRENTLY NOT AVAILABLE. The publisher is out of stock. If you would like to purchase
this title, we recommend that you occasionally check this page to see if it's been reprinted.

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Paperback - 312 pages (August 2000)
Quarry Pr; ISBN: 1550821849 ; Dimensions (in inches): 0.90 x 8.99 x 6.00

Amazon.com Sales Rank: 51,369
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Number of Reviews: 6

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Editorial Reviews
The publisher, Quarry Press , May 31, 2000
Synopsis
"We were good, even great." -- Neil Young

"Stop, hey, what's that sound/ Everybody look what's going down."

These lyrics from the Buffalo Springfield 1967 hit "For What It's Worth" have come to symbolize the turbulent decade of the
1960s, employed in virtually every television documentary, and feature film (including "Forrest Gump" and Oliver Stone's
"Born on the Fourth of July") chronicling that era. In 1967, the Buffalo Springfield -- namely, Bruce Palmer, Dewey Martin,
and Neil Young all from Canada as well as Stephen Stills, Richie Furay, and Jim Messina -- captured the mood of a
generation railing against the establishment and went on to be revered as one of most influential groups in the the history
of rock music.

Hailed as the quintessential late 1960s California band, the Buffalo Springfield spawned several rock music genres, including
folk rock and country rock, with no lesser talents than The Byrds, Flying Burrito Brothers, and The Eagles openly
acknowledging the influence of the Springfield on their own sound. The direct Springfield lineage includes the groups Crosby
Stills, Nash & Young, Poco, Loggins and Messina, The Souther, Hillman, Furay Band, and Neil Young & Crazy Horse.

Told from the eye-witness perspective of founding band member Richie Furay by well-known rock historian John Einarson,
FOR WHAT IT'S WORTH is more than the story of an influential and inspirational group -- it is the story of North American
pop culture and politics in the 1960s and 1970s.

"I think we're one of the most popular, mysterious American bands. Out legacy speaks for itself." --Richie Furay "

I have had the fortune to co-produce Richie's last album and play a lot of shows live with him, and it has been a real treat. Got to hear some great stories along the way, also.

Richie sat in with the current edition of Poco a couple of months ago here. They di an acoustic set with Richie, Rusty, Paul and George, that was pretty awesome.

[This message was edited by John Macy on 07 January 2001 at 05:25 PM.]

John Macy, I envy you getting to play gigs with Furay. I know he preaches now; does he routinely sing in his church or let others do the music? Regards from Philly,
Jimbeaux

Furay's church is in Boulder, has been for a number of years-I have never attended (not the joinin' type) but friends of mine have and say Furay does indeed play and sing some every week. There are rumours around here about every 6 months of a revival of some sort, but that has never panned out, and I began ignoring them years ago as wishful thinking on the part of Boulderite music hangers-on with not enough to do....

An interesting note-Back in New York in about Oh 1972, I was dating Benny Goodman's niece (a hot little blonde who got hip to my act and dumped me pretty quick, but was a fast ride while it lasted) She had lined up some front row seats for Poco at CW Post College (a GREAT Venue back then). We were waiting in line to get in when the word came out that Furay had quit the band, wasn't going on, and the show was postponed a week. We went back a week later (at least I lasted THAT long), and saw an absolutely stunning show, but I don't know who replaced him. I was mesmerized by Rusty Young. This was in the "Good Feelin to Know" time. Just killer. Never did get to see them again like that-saw an incarnation much later with Rusty, and he was great, but the magic seemed to be missing then. Quite an era. Saw the "Untitled" Byrds at Wollman rink in Central Park for 2 bucks at the Shaeffer Music Festival that same summer (absolutely the BEST deal in music you could imagine. I saw the Eagles there for $2 as well right after desperado came out. They brought 18 cellists on for half the show-and the rink only held about 3500 at the most. Sebastian used to do at least 2 shows there every summer as well-that was a time to remember- they don't make venues, OR acts like that anymore.)

This is an easy thread to get carried away on.......

John

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Fulawka D-10 9&5
Better Late than Never!
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

I was going to school at Montclair when I got out of the Army, and I had an apartment in Clifton, one town over from Passaic...WNEW-FM would announce the show, and I'd be at the box office 10 minutes later..if I recall, seats might have been $7 or $8, or maybe as much as $10...

I do strongly disagree, however, with Jason's contention about Joe Walsh: IMO, when Walsh joined the band, they started to get interesting! stronger & more complicated themes in their songs, and killer rock riffin'! I mean, c'mon--yer gonna compare "Life In The Fast Lane" & "Hotel California" to "Peaceful Easy Feeling" & "Desperado" (as good as those songs might be)?

However I agree that the Byrd's "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" is a keeper.
Still, it's all a matter of preference, I'm a Bernie Leadon fan and not a Joe Walsh fan, so I'm biased.

Right you are, me bucko, right you are! one man's meat is another man's...uhhh...personal preference...or something like that.

I definitely wouldn't argue that the Eagles were especially gifted lyricists, but they did kind of sum up the time & place they were from, in certain ways, in both their songs & their offstage lives. I wouldn't go so far as to call Walsh a hack, 'tho: IMO he's a pretty tasteful player, but whether you think so or not one thing about is undeniable: he demonstrates a sense of humor in his playing that comes across immediately. it's this that I especially enjoy, as I think it's a pretty rare thing.

Listening to it today, it doesn't hold up. The title cut is pretentious, and the balance of the cuts are forgettable, except perhaps "New Kid in Town". "Life in the Fast Lane" is a cool phrase but a lame song. It's the Eagles' attempt at being a guitar band-and Walsh was better at that without them. I don't think the pairing did either of them any favors.

John

------------------
Fulawka D-10 9&5
Better Late than Never!
www.johnbarnold.com/pedalsteel

[This message was edited by JB Arnold on 21 January 2001 at 08:15 AM.]

perhaps, perhaps, but you're way off re: MTV. "hotel California" was released in '76, if I'm not mistaken; MTV first went on the air in about '82, and went for almost a year before having an impact on the music industry. also, I can overlook pretention, as long as the music hits me in the gut. 'swhy I still like old Yes: despite their overblown bombasticity & lack of songcraft, at times they come across like a virtuoso garage band (and Chris Squire ranks in my top 4 all-time great rock bassists, with John Entwistle, McCartney & Sabbath's Geezer Butler).

jason-

I could not agree with you more re: Chilton/Big Star. just phenomenal everything: playing, arrangements, vocals, melodies, ahhh!!!! THIS is my kind of band! "The Ballad of El Goodo" has been a staple of my acoustic repetoire for years; it is simply a nugget of pop perfection. As much as I love Cheap Trick, their cover of "On the Street" for That 70's Show adds absolutely nothing to the song. Why the producers didn't use the original is beyond me; they probably could have licensed it for less than the cost of the Cheap Trick version.