I think Chet A was quoted many times as saying that "maybe he took things a little too far uptown" BUT his job was to sell records - or more specifically, to produce records which people would buy (and they did - Jim Reeves, Eddy Arnold, etc, etc, etc)

Also, his personal tastes in general seem to have leaned towards easy listening/soft jazz...

And while his productions may not appeal to you (Mike) - or me - or many others - that's a long way from saying they are "Bad"
(I can't STAND opera, but some people seem to find it "acceptable")

I think Chet A was a professional, in whatever he did - and when he produced, he did the job he felt he was being paid to do.

It's pretty clear when he felt personally committed to, and enthusiastic about, the music he was producing...

Back in the early-mid 1960's, Jim Reeves bored me to tears. So did Eddy Arnold. I dug Bill Monroe, Flatt and Scruggs, Ray Price, Ernest Tubb, Buck Owens, Bob Wills, and Hank Thompson. My bluegrass band played material by Price, Tubb, Owens and Thompson, as well as standard hillbilly fare.

Perlowin and I made music together in the early 60's, so I know what he's talking about.

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If "they" thought that frailing b@njo and Bill Monroe-style vocals would sell, that's what you'd hear...

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Not so sure 'bout that, hoss. Look at the "Soundtrack to 'Oh Brother, Where...'" Huge sales, number one album in the US, big displays in Best Buy, Wal-Mart, etc.

...and, ZERO RADIO AIRPLAY!

The music is sold by lawyers (and CPA's, MBA's, demographic analysts, etc.) and the fools who fiddle in the middle of the station are gone. (thanks for the great lyrics and truths to Michael Murphey)

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 04 July 2001 at 08:46 AM.]

Maby Chet did do what sold records to the masses, but the minority never had a voice such as internet communications.

It's interesting to note that a couple weeks ago Trisha Yearwood was NR 1 on the album charts with opening week sales of 47,000.
Lonestar just took over with 100,000 but I
don't see any other big HNC types releasing new albums very soon.

GO CONVINCE THOSE MISGUIDED FANS

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Perlowin and I made music together in the early 60's, so I know what he's talking about.

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For those who don't know, Herb and I went to high school here in L.A. and played in a bluegrass band together 40 years ago. Herb played mandolin, I played bass. Herb went on to become interested on country and took up the steel, and I got into blues and rock and became a hippy. Herb moved to Texas, I stayed in Los Angeles, and we lost touch with each other. Then in 1980 after I took up the steel we reconnected after not seeing each other for somewhere between 15 and 20 years.

The steel guitar brought us back together and rekindled our friendship. Pretty cool, don't you think?

Nick, I didn't take your comments personally. Don't worry about it.

But if Atkins's butchering of the music can be justified by saying he was only doing his job, and the records sold well, Couldn't the same be said for today's producers? We complain about today's artificially manufactured music, but isn't that just what he did back then?

One of the most frustrating albums in my collection is Duane Eddy's "Twang a Country Tune." Decent guitar playing by Duane Eddy, spectacular steel work by Buddy Emmons, and the Anita Kerr Singers schmaltzing it all up and completely ruining what otherwise could have been a very nice LP. I don't know if Atkins produced this album, which is on RCA Victor, or not. (There are no producer credits in the liner notes) but his influence and the countrypolitan sound is all over it.

If you, as a professional player, are having success, recognition, making bucks, or whatever your individual definition of "being successful" is, you will probably put up with a lot of discomfort, or ignore it, and focus on the good parts of what you're doing. And go home to a nice home, in a nice car, and consider your future comforts and security. In short, the American dream, and who's to say that particular musician isn't deserving of all that?

Chet was doing his job. I don't despise him for it, or anyone else for producing music I don't particularly care for. I just don't buy the music, but it's not Nuremburg! And he was a very cool guitarist, and his approach to chord melody is something that many a steel guitar player could use.

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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

It's not what's happining up top that makes a song "Country", it's what's happening at the bottom - the beat and the bass. Many of those Countrypolitan songs had it. There are many songs today that do NOT have it, they have a rock beat.

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I'm rich because the American public has a taste for $#!&.

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NOT!!!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 04 July 2001 at 04:17 PM.]

I'm not knocking Chet, but I really have a problem with a lot of the Nashville product and especially RCA's middle of the road approach through the 1960s and 1970s.
Having said that, I love a lot of the Chet-Elvis 1950s sides that came together, it took rockabilly into another theatre and sound, real rock and roll to rival Memphis, but with some polish.

I have to agree with Mike on the whole Duane Eddy's "Twang a Country Tune" album, the
totally whitebread Anita Kerr Singers suck the life out of it!
Other labels like Decca really wallowed in MOR style warbling and vocal drivel, it's all a matter of taste, but all of Wynn Stewart's Nashville sides would be so much better without the oohs and aahs.

Every time I see an elvis live video from the 1969-1977 period, I always think how much better it would have been if they hadn't swamped the actual band with the orchestra and if those singers were simply not there.
I guess when I hear female backing I want it to sound like the Ikettes and not Anita Kerr & Co.!
Must be the stomping soulman side of my musical taste.

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The Young Steelkid

[This message was edited by Eddie Lange on 05 July 2001 at 06:41 PM.]

Waylon, don't get me started there, his first Nashville records were terrible, folk-country Waylon, give me a break. It was two years of bad records before 'Mental Revenge' which is a killer record.

You kind of missed my point, didin't I say that the darling of the West Coast Ken Nelson actually did 'those' sort of productions?
And on that topic; before Earl Ball hit town the Capitol Nashville material was seriously syrypy.

Billy Sherrill, Jack Clement and Bob Ferguson where awesome, great guys who didn't spend a lot of their formative years in Nashville, Billy and Jack where creating great Memphis sides for years.
I look at those three as helping to reinvent and create a real solid Nashville sound, between 1968 and 1972 they could do no wrong, fantastic, stuff, Tammy Wynette, Dolly and Porter, etc.

I'm not knocking Chet as such, but for me, the 1958 to 1966 period in Nashville was a real low point, sure there where some great records that used a pop crossover, Johnny Cash 'Ring Of Fire,' Patsy Cline, and plenty of others sure.

Larry, if you're a fan of Chet's guitar playing (which I am too), but don't know about his production side, then perhaps you should stop and read this properly, we aren't mocking, attacking or down playing Chet's guitar playing abilities or persona.
We're talking about a certain trend where the wonderful edge of country music was muffled with stilted production and overly listener friendly fluff.

Eddie I understand your point, but most of the records you mention are post 1967, (not Gentleman Jim Reeves obviously), which is kind of when they pulled out of the true 'Nashville Sound' era into the Countrypolitan era.

I love Billy Sherrill, I dig his R&B, soul, rock, country and rockabilly productions, but his post-Behind Closed Doors work tends to leave me wondering where the magic went.

the thing is with Chet, is that he was a main figure in the creation of the Nashville Sound, so his name is bound to come up.

"But I do not admoire him as a producer. I hate the countrypolitan sound, with it's lame backgound vocals by the Anita Kerr singers, and it's use of strings instead of steels and fiddles. I think the style robbed country music of it's character, and turned it into a cross between real music and something you'd hear on an elevator. I think it is dull, lifeless, phoney, dishonest, and utterly devoid of any musical value.
I think as great a guitarist Chet was, as a producer he made some very bad records."

I can read, I realize that no one is putting down Chets playing, but my point is: "What is the point of putting down ANY aspect of his life and career". This is a rediculous thread and I dont even know why I am responding to it, but it just irritates and hurts me to see ANY BODY say ANY THING negative about Chet.
Again I say, WHAT IS YOUR POINT AND WHAT IS THE PURPOSE OF YOUR POST. It seems to me that you saw too many nice things being said about CHET and you, Mike, just had to bring up negavite. I am attending the Chet convention in Nashville next week and it will be my 7th year in a row. I can promise you that negative comments about his production will not be made there !!

I know for a fact as well as guitarists and fiddle players performed on the artists recordings in New York it was Chet who convinced Sholes that the sound captured by studio musicians such as George Barnes,Tony Mottola, Bucky Pizzerelli etc was not the sound Chet was after.

It put me out of business at RCA as far as any future recordings ,,the sound Chet was after simply was not happening here in NY
regardless of how great the musicians mentioned above were.

He was in favor of the Hank Garlands, Grady Martin's and the true sound of country,,,how could anyone fault Chet for doing what the RCA corporates wanted. Many wanted to "dress" up country music,,the die hards
objected as did Chet,,,he had no choice in the matter.

Iam from the Eddy Arnold,Red Foley, Ernest Tubb scene,,,Iam not in favor of what has happened to what they refer today as "new country,,,,but it sell's and thats what it is all about.

I imagine that Chet's name continually popping up simply reminded Mike of those productions that he and I seem to share a strong dislike for.
I may point out earlier that Chet was in on some of the finest Nashville rock records that Elvis ever cut, but the whole point is that it's a matter of taste.
I much prefer old timey, bluegrass and Woody guthrie type music to the whole Nashville Sound era, and we are allowed to say these things.
If you think mike's and my timing is bad, fair enough, but when one gets retrospective about a career, I have no problem with being critical about it.
I don't get into much Nashville sound material, but I don't think much of Lawrence Welk either, too uptown and smaltzy... see that's an opinion, it's different to some other people's on the list, but if it wasn't for people wanting to break away from certain established sounds then there would be no progression.
I feel that like now, country music was generally in a dead spot.

Anyway, this could go on forever...

But as I said before, I think that when he produced those records, incorporating middle of the road elevator music instrumental backgounds and those lame background vocals, he compromised the integrety of the music.

One of the things I like about country music is it's honesty. I think the countrypolitan sound was musically dishonest. Maybe Chet was doing what the company told him to and would have preferred to make more authentic records. He certainly wouldn't be the only producer pressured by the suits at a record company to add certain elements that the graphs and charts from the accounting department say would increase sales. (Pete Anderson said that he had the same problem when he was with Warner Brothers.)

But whoever is responsible, I think that the countrypolitan sound of the 60's does a disservice to the music.

If my opinions offend you, than I will have to live with the knowledge that I've offended somebody. (I assure you that you are not the only one.) But I call them as I see them and will not hide my opinions or thoughts because some people might not agree with them.

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 06 July 2001 at 11:44 PM.]

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I'm not knocking Chet as such, but for me, the 1958 to 1966 period in Nashville was a real low point, sure there where some great records that used a pop crossover, Johnny Cash 'Ring Of Fire,' Patsy Cline, and plenty of others sure.

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Jason,
that time frame (1958-1966) knocks out some of the best music Nashville ever recorded. All the best Ray Price stuff was cut during this era. Ernest Tubb had Buddy Emmons, Bobby Garrett, Buddy Charleton and Leon Rhodes in his band and on his records. Charlie Walker cut some great shuffles. Loretta Lynn was becoming "THE" country girl singer. George Jones, Kitty Wells, Wilburn Bros., Porter Wagoner, Little Jimmy Dickens.........
Most of the time I agree with you but on this I'll have to respectfully disagree.

Tubb and Price aren't particuarly good examples of what I mean, sure Ray did some uptown violin drenched numbers, but in the period we both mentioned these gents where using their road band on sessions, which would hardly qualify as Nashville Sound type recordings, I'd say they were going against the trend.

Is Chet Countrypolitan dishonest, but Billy Sherrill Countrypolitan honest? I noticed a 60s cut-off date in a previous post. I can't believe anyone can listen to the George Jones recording of The Door and say it is merely elevator music.

"Country" comes in many sytles. Some people can accept a little variety in their music. Too much of one thing can become tiring, even if it is in it's purist form.

OK just put yourself in Atkins shoes for a second. 1964---Beatles and other British groups have hit and virtually every radio playlist in America immediately stops playing
pretty much anything that your Mom and Dad listened to. Jazz artist got NO airplay. The country scene was a small market anyway---it got smaller REAL fast. NO young people listening to country at all!!!! Mom and Dad driven out of pop music. What does Atkins do???---he saves RCA Nashville, his job and country music in general by giving your Mom and Dad something to listen to by some of the greatest country artist you will ever hear.

Perlowin hates the Anita Kerr singers but you need to transport your butt level consciousness back to 1963. Your Mom and Dad had listened to the HiLos and the Four Freshmen and other spectacular vocal groups. This was a familiar sound to them. Atkins just used what they had listened to before the British bomb. What YOU hate THEY liked. Millions of records sold---Eddy Arnold and other RCA artist on network TV every weekend--GET IT!!!!! A producers' job is not to cater to purists who would just as soon not buy any records unless they were done by the Carter family or some other non electric absolutely raw unadulterated country/hillbilly group. His job is TO SELL RECORDS!!!! Say that one thousand times.

I hope your dog dies Perlowin. You bad mouth Chet Atkins before he assumes room temp---What a sleazy deal!!

When you produce ONE record that sells a million copies THEN you get to bash Chet.

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I hope your dog dies

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...Mike is entitled to his opinions.

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This is getting ugly. Bobby please close this thread.

Dan Hatfield, I meant nothing against your mother personally. I'm sure she was a fine woman and a loving mother, and that you love her very much. Please accept my apologies if you were offended by my opinions.

[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 07 July 2001 at 11:29 PM.]