|
 The Steel Guitar Forum
 Music
 HORNS on the Opry, Why all the silence?
|
| next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: HORNS on the Opry, Why all the silence? |
|
Jerry Bruner Member From: Albany, NY |
posted 06 August 2001 07:46 PM
profile
Personally, I THOROUGHLY enjoyed Dale Watson's performance on the Opry, and I agree that Mr. RICKY DAVIS was AWESOME and he looked like he was REALLY ENJOYING it. However I am partially amused and partially disgusted with the SGF as the silence is deafening. The "hardliner traditionalists" moaned and groaned when there was SLIDE GUITAR on the Opry, but their voices are totally SILENT about HORNS. Now I do not think horns are country instruments at all (although they do make their way onto hits like "Ring of Fire" for instance) but horns ARE a part of its cousin WESTERN SWING. Now since Watson is a Texan and I guess Texas is probably the state where western swing flourishes the most.... then it's really not out of place on a Watson record. And this was a treat as I don't think he tours with a horn section or a piano in his band!! (As long as he has RICKY in his band I'll be happy) But I just felt the need to sound off because of all the "IT AIN'T COUNTRY" that was hollered at the slide guitar, yet deafening silence about the horns. I bet you if Reba played the Opry (fat chance) and brought a sax player there you could hear the hollering ad nauseum, but if Merle brought a sax player (does he stil have one in his band?).......... not a word would be uttered. I just hope we don't have to wait years before another Watson appearance on the televised portion again. Go Ricky.... Go Ricky.... Go Ricky..... |
|
Earl Erb Member From: Old Hickory Tenn |
posted 06 August 2001 09:12 PM
profile
Seems to me if my memory serves me,Marty Robbins beat em' all to the punch in the horn department.When Marty started performing "Carmen" on the Opry in the early 70's Roy Acuff blew his top when Marty showed up with a brass section.Bill Anderson has performed the Opry with horns in the past.I played the Opry from 1968 to 1976 and I remember when the drummers finally got to sit behind a full set of drums around 1971.Roy fought that for years saying country music was a snare drum and high hat.The staff drummer was Harold Weakly and thats all he could play.Roy finally gave into the pressure of changing times.My point is that I was there when it started and I'm not bothered by horns now.  Skeeter Davis-1968-69,Jim Ed Brown-1970-76 [This message was edited by Earl Erb on 06 August 2001 at 09:15 PM.] |
|
Jody Sanders Member From: Magnolia,Texas |
posted 06 August 2001 09:51 PM
profile
Two of the best country-western swing bands that I ever worked with had horn players. Butch Keith was a great trumpet and Vernon Drozd was a great sax player. I worked a gig with Gene Watson with a horn player. Gene had a top ten song that had a horn player on the record. The lead player played trumpet on that one song. Jody. |
|
Jack Stoner Sysop From: Inverness, Florida |
posted 07 August 2001 03:58 AM
profile
 "slide" it out of here |
|
Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 07 August 2001 05:03 AM
profile
I forgot about those trombones until you mentioned it. I was so impressed by Ricky and Dale. They did not get in the way so I guess they were good. Maybe somewhere there's a Trombone Forum that is raving about these guys. They fit the music. I have no problem with them. I also enjoyed Leroy's Slide Guitar a few weeks ago. -j0e- |
|
Geoff Brown Member From: Nashvegas |
posted 07 August 2001 06:36 AM
profile
Earl, those are great stories and facts you mentioned in your post. I'll bet you have a lot of 'em |
|
Earl Erb Member From: Old Hickory Tenn |
posted 07 August 2001 07:21 AM
profile
Hello Geoff,I have a few but it takes something like this to get the memory bank going. |
|
Leigh Howell Member From: Holly Ridge, NC, USA |
posted 07 August 2001 07:42 AM
profile
Slide Guitar, and Brass, is like comparing apples, and oranges!! : Leigh |
|
Ray Jenkins Member From: Gold Canyon Az. Pinal U.S.A. |
posted 07 August 2001 08:15 AM
profile
Come on Earl,more stories. I'm serious,we really do want to hear them. Ray ------------------ |
|
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 07 August 2001 08:34 AM
profile
Hmmmnnn....I'm trying to remember, what was it that "Boots" Randolph played? |
|
Earl Erb Member From: Old Hickory Tenn |
posted 07 August 2001 11:02 AM
profile
SAX! and that's my final answer.We're talking about the Opry and Boots was never a member of the Opry.As a matter of fact,I can't remember him ever being invited to perform on the Opry. Ray...I don't know if I can tell that one.  BTW. Ray,where in the heck is Mark? I haven't seen him on line in months.  [This message was edited by Earl Erb on 07 August 2001 at 11:58 AM.] |
|
Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 07 August 2001 01:34 PM
profile
Lawrence Welk had a steel guitar, so I guess it's OK for the Opry to have horns! And another thing... [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 07 August 2001 at 01:41 PM.] |
|
Earl Erb Member From: Old Hickory Tenn |
posted 07 August 2001 01:50 PM
profile
Two reasons Donny, 1.Covers up bad technique. 2.Don't want to sound like Cousin' Jody. |
|
Theresa Galbraith Member From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA |
posted 07 August 2001 03:01 PM
profile
I don't think it covers up bad technique at all. It adds another flavor to pick from and hopefully, someone will like it and want to buy one. I believe musicians learn from other instruments. Theresa [This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 07 August 2001 at 03:02 PM.] |
|
BobbeSeymour Member From: Hendersonville TN USA |
posted 07 August 2001 03:10 PM
profile
Is Ray Price Country? He had horns all the time I played with him,and drums, and piano, and a hard jazz guitarest,AND vibraphone!(and me!). We did the instrumental, " BLUE EMMONS" and steel was written totally out!I had to sit there and listen to horns and strings play my steel guitar instrumental!Sorry, but he wasn't very country in '69 -----79. I went to work with Dean Martin during this period and that was more country than Price was. BUT, I really did love the music Ray did and I loved the band,BIG BIG BIG! I even worked with Robert Mitchem for a little while,"Little Ole Wine drinker Me", but I'm sure no one remembers this. Horns don't make or break country music is what I'm trying to say,STEEL DOES! Bobbe [This message was edited by BobbeSeymour on 07 August 2001 at 03:22 PM.] |
|
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 07 August 2001 03:28 PM
profile
I can't remember ever working in a western swing group that didn't have at least a trumpet and sax!(but of course that wasn't country) [This message was edited by Gene Jones on 07 August 2001 at 03:31 PM.] |
|
Earl Erb Member From: Old Hickory Tenn |
posted 07 August 2001 04:38 PM
profile
Theresa,I guess you have to play guitar to understand what I'm trying to say...I HATE SLIDE GUITAR! |
|
Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 07 August 2001 07:38 PM
profile
I think Johnny Cash started it all with that "Ring of Fire" song! Seriously though, I think the Western Swing groups added the horns after swing (a la Dorsey and Goodman) started getting popular. Originally, "Western Swing" groups were a lot more "Western" (cowboy-music) than they were "Swing", weren't they??? |
|
Andy Volk Member From: Boston, MA |
posted 07 August 2001 07:44 PM
profile
I thought the horns were great and added to Dale & Ricky's performance. |
|
Janice Brooks Moderator From: Pleasant Gap Pa |
posted 07 August 2001 08:25 PM
profile
Donnie I thinks it's the opposete. Bob Wills had more instaments on the original San Antonio Rose then Glenn Miller had for In the Mood. Just compare the Essentasls on Columbia verses the new MGM collection. ------------------ |
|
Tim Rowley Member From: Pinconning, MI, USA |
posted 07 August 2001 09:27 PM
profile
If you all will remember, when Bob Wills and the Texas Playboys played the Grand Ole Opry at the Ryman Auditorium following WW II, Opry officials informed him that "there will be no drums nor horns". So Bob told the boys "pack up, we're goin' home". Then the Opry officials backed down and allowed the band to perform with horns and drums. This was the one and only time that Wills and his band played the Opry, and may well have been the very first time horns and drums appeared there. At any rate, some considered it musical heresy, but then again it's common knowledge that Bob Wills NEVER considered his music to be "country", he just played what his fans wanted to hear. Nevertheless Bob Wills was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame in 1968, horns notwithstanding. Roy "no horns allowed" Acuff and Tex Ritter announced his induction. That night they referred to Wills as a "folk hero" among other things. Hmmm... Tim R. |
|
ESnow Member From: Berryville AR USA |
posted 08 August 2001 12:30 AM
profile
I think horns have always really added to Merle's sound. Don Markham plays a sax ride with such great taste and you can listen to Gary Church trombone ride on Twinkle Twinkle Lucky Star. A real good horn player that knows when and where to play can compliment a band. |
|
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 08 August 2001 03:54 AM
profile
Reference an earlier post....."cowboy" music was what Gene Autry and Roy Rogers did. "Hillbilly" music was what was played on the Opry in those days. Neither was on a western-swing playlist. |
|
John Floyd Member From: Somewhere between Camden County , NC and Saluda S.C. |
posted 08 August 2001 04:09 AM
profile
The Main reason that No one has complained that the Horns were used in very good taste, Complimented Dales Song. I don't think any instrument should be excluded from the Opry, If it is used in Good Taste and it Fits Musically. quote: I'm with Earl on this one. BTW ------------------ [This message was edited by John Floyd on 08 August 2001 at 04:13 AM.] |
|
John Kavanagh Member From: Kentville, Nova Scotia, Canada |
posted 08 August 2001 01:11 PM
profile
I guess the short answer is that nobody on this forum would be real upset if it looked like Western Swing was making a comeback. I really like slide guitar, by the way. |
|
erik Member From: |
posted 08 August 2001 06:25 PM
profile
Aren't the horns a Mexican influence? Anyways, Tommy Overstreet had horns in most of his songs. Sounded good to me. As far as [ed]slide[ed] guitar goes: You need some sort of driver to amplify the tone. A Fuzz/Overdrive pedal achieves that. [This message was edited by erik on 08 August 2001 at 06:29 PM.] |
|
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 09 August 2001 04:10 AM
profile
......."but then again it's common knowledge that Bob Wills NEVER considered his music to be "country", he just played what his fans wanted to hear. Nevertheless Bob Wills was inducted into the Country Music Hall of Fame".......... Wills never considered his music to be "Rock" either, but he was also inducted into the Rock & Roll Hall of Fame. His music apparently influenced many musicians and styles during his career! |
|
Jerry Horner Member From: Tahlequah, OK, USA |
posted 09 August 2001 04:41 AM
profile
Don't get a burr under your saddle Gene. You need to watch your blood pressure. Jerry |
|
Ray Jenkins Member From: Gold Canyon Az. Pinal U.S.A. |
posted 09 August 2001 06:40 AM
profile
quote [BTW. Ray,where in the heck is Mark? I haven't seen him on line in months. Earl, I'll call him this morning and have him give you a holler.Come on with the stories. ------------------ |
|
Gene Jones Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA |
posted 09 August 2001 07:39 AM
profile
Jerry.....My definition of a "good" western-swing horn player was someone who could & would play in any key, even "E", without complaining! How about you? |
|
Jerry Horner Member From: Tahlequah, OK, USA |
posted 09 August 2001 08:29 AM
profile
You are right Gene. The names of Arlin Kaywood and Gary Bloxsum come to mind. Even though I like a horn or two in western swing bands, I prefer to have the "Opry" shows country and that means plenty of steel guitar. There are a lot of the younger steel players that don't have a clue as to what we are talking about as far as horns and western swing. That don't make them bad people, they just haven't been around that style of music and I admit that most folks favor one style over the others. I know I do. Jerry |
|
Robert Williams Member From: Carmichael Ca. 95608 |
posted 09 August 2001 09:32 PM
profile
I'm sure you will all agree that in 1944 Eddy Arnold was pure country? On December 4 1944 Eddy recorded a song called"Mother's Prayer". It had a Trumpet in it along with the steel and the fiddle. As I think back the trumpet was a fairly often used instrument in country music in the 40's. That same session produced "Mommy please stay home with me", "Cattle call', and"Each minute seems a million years" but the trumpet was only heard on the one song. Horns aren't new to country. |
|
Mike Weirauch Member From: Harrisburg, Illinois**The Hub of the Universe |
posted 10 August 2001 12:05 AM
profile
The best slide guitar is one with 6 broken strings!
quote: ......not if we're lucky! |
|
John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA |
posted 10 August 2001 08:49 AM
profile
Slide guitar, played poorly, is like steel guitar played poorly--it sucks. However, sometime take a listen to Sonny Landreth, who IMNSHO is the true master of slide guitar--totally unique--flawlessly intonated--not a cliche in his musical vocabulary. He is a truely inspiring musician, and would most lilely change your mind about slide guitar. His new CD on Sugar Hill is really great... |
|
Ron Page Member From: Cincinnati, OH USA |
posted 10 August 2001 12:51 PM
profile
I didn't get to catch Dale's Opry performance. If I'd check in here more often I wouldn't have missed out. DITTO to ESnow's post. Merle and Don know how to use horns in creating and complimenting Merle's music without diluting his musical identity. If this were easy more artists would be able to do it. I can't think of any other country artist who has consistently featured a sax for about 20 years now; doesn't mean there are none, just none that I can recall. IMHO, like the rest of the Strangers, Don's best job as a backup can be found on "Live at Billy Bob's Texas". |
|
Dave Van Allen Member From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth |
posted 13 August 2001 08:19 PM
profile
If we're talking credntials and authenticity, is Jimmy "The Singing Brakeman" Rodgers COUNTRY enough??I just recently heard a cut , one of Jimmy's "Blue Yodels" , I ferget what number,that had LOUIS ARMSTRONG on it.... I say that's a pretty good precedent. |
All times are Pacific (US) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
 |
|
Contact Us | The Pedal Steel Pages
Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46