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Author | Topic: Dickey Betts Spinoff: Bob Welch & Fleetwood Mac |
Rich Paton Member From: Santa Maria, CA., |
![]() OK, so Rock is sort of cool here, how about blues? Speaking of getting canned from a group for being too good, while on top of your form and enjoying great audience popularity... The Betts thread reminds me of hearing Linday Buckingham & Stevies Nicks explain on a TV feature show taped soon after F-Mac had exploded into a huge megabuck pop juggernaut. F-Mac had experienced a sudden, acrimonious personnel re-shuffle & a hard left-turn into the pop music "mainstream" (The "Rumors" album era).. Buckingham & Nicks were kicking and whipping upon the sacked old dog, Welsh, stating something to the effect of "We HAD to get rid of Bob Welsh. Geeze...Bob, with his guitar prowess, riveting stage presence, and his claiming a [seemingly] lop-sided portion of the band's songwriting credits...well, it was like all of a sudden it seemed to us that Bob Welsh had become, in fact now WAS Fleetwood Mac. So we [all] felt like we needed a change of direction & focus, and a chance to try out new musical ideas". Indeed, with Bob's passing also went the essence of the band's former musical bag, its long tradition of innovative, from-roots-to-spooky/ethereal* blues sounds, blues-based tradition, and rougher edge. But the new Mac then proceeded to kick some very serious Top-40 "rock" album butt. Hey, you can't knock success. That house-cleaning putsch made for what was probably a several hundred million dollar musical success storyb for the "New & Improved" F-Mac. They never excited me too much after that point, but that's just a matter of unarguable (moot) personal musical preference, (FWIW). I've seen a couple of live "solo" Welsh shows since then, and to paraphrase Charley Daniels, "He ain't good lookin', but he sure can play". Welsh is a monster on the guitar, and I've always liked the sound & feel of his spacey compositions, i.e. "Future Games, Hypnotized, Ebony Eyes"... IMHO, Bob W. was nobody's downtrodden whiner, so he just got up, dusted himself off, and headed down the crossroads to instill a bit of fear & respect in the hellhounds still rumored to be lurking around there. *Ethereal link: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=ethereal The "unusual delicacy and refinement" meaning was a new, but appropriate meaning to me, one that seems to befit the sound of the old "Welshwood Mac" material. |
Geoff Brown Member From: Nashvegas |
![]() Bob Welch never lit me up too much, although there are a few things I like. I always liked the spooky vibe of "hypnotized". However...any discussion of FM, particularly within the blues realm must include the guitar work of Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer. Rippling twin guitar harmonies, blistering solos..for me, that is some pretty ethereal blues guitar playing. |
Jason Odd Member From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia |
![]() In interviews Lindsay Buckingham and the guys who have replaced him have shown a particular dislike for the Bob Welsh era, which I admit I happen to agree with. Bob was part of the group in it's most directionless period, and I'm allowing for the fact that the group has been treading water since 1979 and has done nothing of much note since. After Peter Green spit FM in 1970, the group recorded 1970's Kiln House, where Jeremy Spencer dominated the band's musical direction with a bunch of rocker style numbers in almost Buddy Holly mode. I think Bob's all right, and he helped the group through a period when they seriously needed direction, but in personal preference I'd rate the first two Buckingham-Nicks albums with FM as some of the group's best. |
Glenn Suchan Member From: Austin, Texas |
![]() I don't get the Fleetwood Mac/Dicky Betts conection but as far as I'm concerned Fleetwood Mac after the original line up was never as good and after Kiln House it really stunk. Regardless for the huge "pop" success it garnered. If you don't believe me compare Santana's version of Black Magic Woman with the original with Peter Green at the helm of FM. After that comparision you might question Carlos Santana's originality. Or Listen to "Albatross" which was the first song to knock the Beatles out of the number one spot on British rock charts. "Albatross" is in the tradition of "Sleepwalk" without being a rip-off. Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, and Danny Kirwin should be included with the greats of blues rock guitar for their contributions to early FM. One last listening suggestion is "Fleetwood Mac in Chicago" which was recorded at Chess Studios with Phil and Marshall Chess just before Chess Records went out of business. It includes many of the stalworths of the post-war Chicago Blues world i.e. Otis Spann, Honey Boy Edwards, etc. These are all great recordings which "Rumors" and every FM album since fails to compare with. Pop has it's place but not with the tradition of Fleetwood Mac. BTW: Christine McVie (nee Perfect) co-fronted another great British blues band from the same time. The band was called Chicken Shack and featured the stunning guitar pyrotechnics of co-leader Stan Webb. I felt Ms. McVie's talents were wasted backing up the weak singing abilities of Buckingham/Nicks. I'm outta here.... Glenn |
Jason Odd Member From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia |
![]() Glenn, to be honest I have to admit that these days I find most of the Christine McVie tracks to be the best on the 1970s albums, although I do like a lot of Lindsay's material. Hey what can I say, the guy played with one of the Everly's just prior to joining up with FM. Personally I don't think it gets any better than the Peter Green days, but if we're going to get into that whole bag, I far prefer the John Mayall album that 'Greenie' did, rather than the Bluesbreakers (Beano) album that Clapton played on the year before (1966). I love Clapton's work on that LP. but Green's approach mixed with Mayall's eccentric approach was fantastic! I agree totally about Chicken Shack, another example pf a great Brit blues band which which into rather tedious blues rock, like Savoy Brown, the Groundhogs and others in the 1970s. ------------------ |
Glenn Suchan Member From: Austin, Texas |
![]() Well stated, Jason. Savoy Brown from the days with Chris Youlden on vocals and the horn section was far better than the later "Lonesome" Dave Prevret (sp) power-rock quartet. The same holds true for T.S. McPhee and the early Groundhogs. Aynsley Dunbar's Retaliation and Stone's Masonry featuring the future Nashville guitar great Albert Lee as well as Keif Hartley and Halfbreed all had a pretty honest blues approach. A common thread here? John Mayall and Cyril Davies who "co-chaired" the primal "Chicago Blues" movement in England in the late 50's and early 60's. The list of their combined alumni spans an impressive number of musicians in most of the progressive bands (blues or otherwise) coming out of the UK from the early 60's thru the late 70's. Keep on pickin'! |
Jason Odd Member From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia |
![]() Hey the Aynsley Dunbar Retaliation, their early albums are great, all of them are good though, ol' Keef's stuff is pretty good as well. I liked the jazzier Bluebreakers, I wish the early groups had recorded more with Mayall, but there's still a lot of great albums. When it comes to the beat-R&B-jazz thing in the U.K. I always lean towards the late 1960s Bluesbreakers, but the Graham Bond Organisation have some great material as well, have you heard any of their mid 1960s sides or albums? As a fan of Alexis Koerner (who at times could be pretty bad or excelllent), Cyril Davies, and Mayall I'm particuarly enjoying this thread. |
Tim Fleming Member From: Pasadena, CA. The other Rose City |
![]() Anybody ever hear the Jeremy Spencer solo album (1970ish) on which there is a satire blues cut recorded live featuring a "really really hot" guitarist? Pretty hilarious. p.s. give me Kiln House over anything after. |
Jason Odd Member From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia |
![]() Tim, that would be his first album from 1970, the next one was recorded under the sway of the Children Of God religous group (read: cult) and isn't that good at all. |
Glenn Suchan Member From: Austin, Texas |
![]() Back atcha Jason. I remember the Graham Bond Organisation. In fact I have one of their recordings. The album cover deals with primitive religion (possibly a Druid influence) and has the symbols for earth, water, air, and fire on it. Musically it's o.k. but not very strong. On the other hand, Colliseum with Dick Heckstal-Smith playing soprano and alto sax (ala Roland Kirk) and John Heismann on drums was a much more powerful foray into the jazz-blues-rock thing. You're right Jason, this has turned into an intresting thread. It has nothing to do with steel guitar but intresting none the less. Keep on pickin'! |
Paul Graupp Member From: Macon Ga USA |
![]() With all this heavy guitar conversation going on, I wonder if I could ask a question ? When I was recalled during the Persian Gulf episode, I was sent to Atlanta to help out with the installation of a laser ceilometer at Dobbins AF Base. One evening, at a restaurant in town I heard this fabulous guitar work and later dug up the name of the record which was Chris Issacs and What A Wicked Thing To Do. I thought that was some wicked guitar work done by I never found out who. Now we're in a new crisis and I hear this guitar work on some car commercial and I'm wanting to know again: Who Is This Guy ?? Any info and/or details will surely be appreciated. I've waited a long time !! Regards, Paul [This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 21 September 2001 at 07:30 AM.] |
nick allen Member From: France |
![]() James Wilsey was the lead player on moqst of Isaak's earlier records (I see from AMG he also played steel guitar on the first album!) I believe Danny Gatton also did some work with him... don't know that song though. Nick (FWIW) |
Jason Odd Member From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia |
![]() Glenn, that would be the 'Magik' period of Bond's career, when he was obsessed with mysticism, and magic (I didn't mispell the first time, it's a Crowley thing, Led Zep fans might understand that one).. There's two albums from 1965, I think it's 'There A Bond Between Us' and 'The Spirit of '65' are the titles. |
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