Steel Guitar Strings
Strings & instruction for lap steel, Hawaiian & pedal steel guitars
http://SteelGuitarShopper.com
Ray Price Shuffles
Classic country shuffle styles for Band-in-a-Box, by BIAB guru Jim Baron.
http://steelguitarmusic.com

This Forum is CLOSED.
Go to bb.steelguitarforum.com to read and post new messages.


  The Steel Guitar Forum
  Music
  Dickey Betts Spinoff: Bob Welch & Fleetwood Mac

Post New Topic  
your profile | join | preferences | help | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   Dickey Betts Spinoff: Bob Welch & Fleetwood Mac
Rich Paton
Member

From: Santa Maria, CA.,

posted 16 September 2001 11:23 AM     profile     
OK, so Rock is sort of cool here, how about blues?
Speaking of getting canned from a group for being too good, while on top of your form and
enjoying great audience popularity...
The Betts thread reminds me of hearing Linday Buckingham & Stevies Nicks explain on a TV feature show taped soon after F-Mac had exploded into a huge megabuck pop juggernaut. F-Mac had experienced a sudden, acrimonious personnel re-shuffle & a hard left-turn into the pop music "mainstream" (The "Rumors" album era)..
Buckingham & Nicks were kicking and whipping upon the sacked old dog, Welsh, stating something to the effect of "We HAD to get rid of Bob Welsh. Geeze...Bob, with his guitar prowess, riveting stage presence, and his claiming a [seemingly] lop-sided portion of the band's songwriting credits...well, it was like all of a sudden it seemed to us that Bob Welsh had become, in fact now WAS Fleetwood Mac. So we [all] felt like we needed a change of direction & focus, and a chance to try out new musical ideas".
Indeed, with Bob's passing also went the essence of the band's former musical bag, its long tradition of innovative, from-roots-to-spooky/ethereal* blues sounds, blues-based tradition, and rougher edge.
But the new Mac then proceeded to kick some very serious Top-40 "rock" album butt.
Hey, you can't knock success. That house-cleaning putsch made for what was probably a several hundred million dollar musical success storyb for the "New & Improved" F-Mac.
They never excited me too much after that point, but that's just a matter of unarguable (moot) personal musical preference, (FWIW).
I've seen a couple of live "solo" Welsh shows since then, and to paraphrase Charley Daniels, "He ain't good lookin', but he sure can play". Welsh is a monster on the guitar, and I've always liked the sound & feel of his spacey compositions, i.e. "Future Games, Hypnotized, Ebony Eyes"...
IMHO, Bob W. was nobody's downtrodden whiner, so he just got up, dusted himself off, and headed down the crossroads to instill a bit of fear & respect in the hellhounds still rumored to be lurking around
there.
*Ethereal link: http://www.m-w.com/cgi-bin/dictionary?va=ethereal
The "unusual delicacy and refinement" meaning was a new, but appropriate meaning to me, one that seems to befit the sound of the old "Welshwood Mac" material.
Geoff Brown
Member

From: Nashvegas

posted 16 September 2001 02:43 PM     profile     
Bob Welch never lit me up too much, although there are a few things I like. I always liked the spooky vibe of "hypnotized". However...any discussion of FM, particularly within the blues realm must include the guitar work of Peter Green and Jeremy Spencer. Rippling twin guitar harmonies, blistering solos..for me, that is some pretty ethereal blues guitar playing.
Jason Odd
Member

From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

posted 16 September 2001 06:36 PM     profile     
In interviews Lindsay Buckingham and the guys who have replaced him have shown a particular dislike for the Bob Welsh era, which I admit I happen to agree with.
Bob was part of the group in it's most directionless period, and I'm allowing for the fact that the group has been treading water since 1979 and has done nothing of much note since.

After Peter Green spit FM in 1970, the group recorded 1970's Kiln House, where Jeremy Spencer dominated the band's musical direction with a bunch of rocker style numbers in almost Buddy Holly mode.
Christine McVie joined on piano and vocals that year, while Spencer bailed on tour in early 1971.
Christine McVie and Danny Kirwan began to move the band towards mainstream West Coast influenced rock on 1971's Future Games, with new guitarist Bob Welch.
Bob showed a stronger influence on 1972's Bare Trees LP, not long after which Danny Kirwan was replaced by guitarists Bob Weston and Dave Walker, who appeared on 1973's Penguin LP.
Aside from some of Christine's songs, I'd say that this would have to be one of the weakest periods of the group.
Dave Walker was terribly innapropriate for the group's sound, and apparently it was his stage presence (the dude used to front heavy blues rockers Savoy Brown, not a subtle outfit at all), that drew ire from the remaining group, including Welsh.
So Dave got the boot (and did an even briefer stint with Black Sabbath), and Bob Weston departed after the next FM album 'Mystery to Me' in 1973.
In 1974, the 'Heroes Are Hard To Find' album came out, and once again the only sonmgs I felt had any longevity where Christine's songs, they sounded like a caberet act the rest of the time.
Late in 1974, Fleetwood Mac moved to California, with hopes of re-starting their career. Welch left the band shortly after. although many suggest that Welch was asked to stay despite the addition of Lindsey Buckingham and Stevie Nicks.
Instead he departed and formed a kind of hard-rock trio called Paris. The band — which included former Jethro Tull bass guitarist Glenn Cornick, former Nazz drummer Thom Mooney, and drummer Hunt Sales (later with David Bowie's Tin Machine), they put out two flop albums, which had music that ranged from pretty good, to average material.
Bob then went solo and cut some okay 1970s smooth pop, you know kind of like the dross that Boz Scaggs (once a great soul singer) and so many others did faced with the option of going smooth pop or disco.

I think Bob's all right, and he helped the group through a period when they seriously needed direction, but in personal preference I'd rate the first two Buckingham-Nicks albums with FM as some of the group's best.

Glenn Suchan
Member

From: Austin, Texas

posted 17 September 2001 05:23 AM     profile     
I don't get the Fleetwood Mac/Dicky Betts conection but as far as I'm concerned Fleetwood Mac after the original line up was never as good and after Kiln House it really stunk. Regardless for the huge "pop" success it garnered. If you don't believe me compare Santana's version of Black Magic Woman with the original with Peter Green at the helm of FM. After that comparision you might question Carlos Santana's originality. Or Listen to "Albatross" which was the first song to knock the Beatles out of the number one spot on British rock charts. "Albatross" is in the tradition of "Sleepwalk" without being a rip-off. Peter Green, Jeremy Spencer, and Danny Kirwin should be included with the greats of blues rock guitar for their contributions to early FM. One last listening suggestion is "Fleetwood Mac in Chicago" which was recorded at Chess Studios with Phil and Marshall Chess just before Chess Records went out of business. It includes many of the stalworths of the post-war Chicago Blues world i.e. Otis Spann, Honey Boy Edwards, etc. These are all great recordings which "Rumors" and every FM album since fails to compare with. Pop has it's place but not with the tradition of Fleetwood Mac.

BTW: Christine McVie (nee Perfect) co-fronted another great British blues band from the same time. The band was called Chicken Shack and featured the stunning guitar pyrotechnics of co-leader Stan Webb. I felt Ms. McVie's talents were wasted backing up the weak singing abilities of Buckingham/Nicks.

I'm outta here....

Glenn

Jason Odd
Member

From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

posted 17 September 2001 08:06 AM     profile     
Glenn, to be honest I have to admit that these days I find most of the Christine McVie tracks to be the best on the 1970s albums, although I do like a lot of Lindsay's material. Hey what can I say, the guy played with one of the Everly's just prior to joining up with FM.
Personally I don't think it gets any better than the Peter Green days, but if we're going to get into that whole bag, I far prefer the John Mayall album that 'Greenie' did, rather than the Bluesbreakers (Beano) album that Clapton played on the year before (1966). I love Clapton's work on that LP. but Green's approach mixed with Mayall's eccentric approach was fantastic!

I agree totally about Chicken Shack, another example pf a great Brit blues band which which into rather tedious blues rock, like Savoy Brown, the Groundhogs and others in the 1970s.
Like FM, Chicken shack's first four proper studio albums are cool. IMHO..

------------------
The future ain't what it used to be

Glenn Suchan
Member

From: Austin, Texas

posted 17 September 2001 12:41 PM     profile     
Well stated, Jason. Savoy Brown from the days with Chris Youlden on vocals and the horn section was far better than the later "Lonesome" Dave Prevret (sp) power-rock quartet. The same holds true for T.S. McPhee and the early Groundhogs. Aynsley Dunbar's Retaliation and Stone's Masonry featuring the future Nashville guitar great Albert Lee as well as Keif Hartley and Halfbreed all had a pretty honest blues approach.

A common thread here? John Mayall and Cyril Davies who "co-chaired" the primal "Chicago Blues" movement in England in the late 50's and early 60's. The list of their combined alumni spans an impressive number of musicians in most of the progressive bands (blues or otherwise) coming out of the UK from the early 60's thru the late 70's.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Jason Odd
Member

From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

posted 17 September 2001 06:00 PM     profile     
Hey the Aynsley Dunbar Retaliation, their early albums are great, all of them are good though, ol' Keef's stuff is pretty good as well.
I liked the jazzier Bluebreakers, I wish the early groups had recorded more with Mayall, but there's still a lot of great albums.
When it comes to the beat-R&B-jazz thing in the U.K. I always lean towards the late 1960s Bluesbreakers, but the Graham Bond Organisation have some great material as well, have you heard any of their mid 1960s sides or albums?

As a fan of Alexis Koerner (who at times could be pretty bad or excelllent), Cyril Davies, and Mayall I'm particuarly enjoying this thread.
John McVie of Fleetwood Mac was Mayall's bassist for most of the 1960s, and although he was wary of leaving in 1967 for the risky venture of a new group (FM used Bob Brunning as a temp bassist for the early gigs in 1967), he did and those early albums with Kirwan, Fleetwood, Green, Spencer and McVie are some of the finest white boy blues ever.
If pressed I'd have to say that 'Mr. Wonderful' is my fave, the raw sound, the horn section and guest harmonica blended with such a talented group is amazing.
Although the material they cut in Chicago with Eddie Boyd and others, is well impressive.


Tim Fleming
Member

From: Pasadena, CA. The other Rose City

posted 20 September 2001 02:14 PM     profile     
Anybody ever hear the Jeremy Spencer solo album (1970ish) on which there is a satire blues cut recorded live featuring a "really really hot" guitarist?

Pretty hilarious.

p.s. give me Kiln House over anything after.

Jason Odd
Member

From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

posted 20 September 2001 06:31 PM     profile     
Tim, that would be his first album from 1970, the next one was recorded under the sway of the Children Of God religous group (read: cult) and isn't that good at all.
Glenn Suchan
Member

From: Austin, Texas

posted 21 September 2001 05:53 AM     profile     
Back atcha Jason.
I remember the Graham Bond Organisation. In fact I have one of their recordings. The album cover deals with primitive religion (possibly a Druid influence) and has the symbols for earth, water, air, and fire on it. Musically it's o.k. but not very strong. On the other hand, Colliseum with Dick Heckstal-Smith playing soprano and alto sax (ala Roland Kirk) and John Heismann on drums was a much more powerful foray into the jazz-blues-rock thing.

You're right Jason, this has turned into an intresting thread. It has nothing to do with steel guitar but intresting none the less.

Keep on pickin'!
Glenn

Paul Graupp
Member

From: Macon Ga USA

posted 21 September 2001 07:29 AM     profile     
With all this heavy guitar conversation going on, I wonder if I could ask a question ?

When I was recalled during the Persian Gulf episode, I was sent to Atlanta to help out with the installation of a laser ceilometer at Dobbins AF Base. One evening, at a restaurant in town I heard this fabulous guitar work and later dug up the name of the record which was Chris Issacs and What A Wicked Thing To Do. I thought that was some wicked guitar work done by I never found out who.

Now we're in a new crisis and I hear this guitar work on some car commercial and I'm wanting to know again: Who Is This Guy ??

Any info and/or details will surely be appreciated. I've waited a long time !!

Regards, Paul

[This message was edited by Paul Graupp on 21 September 2001 at 07:30 AM.]

nick allen
Member

From: France

posted 21 September 2001 07:48 AM     profile     
James Wilsey was the lead player on moqst of Isaak's earlier records (I see from AMG he also played steel guitar on the first album!)
I believe Danny Gatton also did some work with him... don't know that song though.
Nick (FWIW)
Jason Odd
Member

From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia

posted 21 September 2001 05:02 PM     profile     
Glenn, that would be the 'Magik' period of Bond's career, when he was obsessed with mysticism, and magic (I didn't mispell the first time, it's a Crowley thing, Led Zep fans might understand that one)..

There's two albums from 1965, I think it's 'There A Bond Between Us' and 'The Spirit of '65' are the titles.
Bond on organ and sometimes twin horns, Ginger Baker on drums, Jack Bruce on bass, and I think Dick Heckstall-Smith on horns as well. They were a real hard R&B-jazz outfit, some slower material, but some screaming rocking jazz stuff as well.
John McLaughlin was the guitarist back in 1963, after he left I don't think Bond really bothered with guitars, he filled the sound rather well.
His late 1960s material is a bit hit and miss.

All times are Pacific (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Pedal Steel Pages

Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46