I wish "Willie Nelson" would learn to sing in time

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Author	Topic: I wish "Willie Nelson" would learn to sing in time
Nick Reed Member From: Springfield, TN	posted 10 November 2002 08:52 AM profile I always liked the classic "Willie" songs recorded years ago. I just got through watching last night's Opry, and I've noticed over the last umpteen years that his song-phrasing and timing on live performances are intentionally ran together. I know this is his signature style of singing, but to me it sounds like $h!t. I've also noticed "John Conlee" following the same pattern. I feel this ruins the character of many of these great old legendary songs. It's got to be a hoss of a challenge for his band members as well. To me, it would be hard to back them up and sound good. I really wish both these artists would sing the songs in time like they originally recorded them so they would sound right. Nick Reed 66 Emmons P/P D-10 66 Emmons P/P S-10 71 Emmons P/P D-10 99 Emmons LeGrande III SD-10 78 Sho-Bud Pro-I [This message was edited by Nick Reed on 10 November 2002 at 08:54 AM.]
Terry Wendt Member From: Nashville, TN, USA	posted 10 November 2002 09:22 AM profile Agreed Nick, The problem with poor phrasing (or unique phrasing) habits (where meter jumping is inherent) is this... like alzheimers it increases radically with age. Poor Willie ------------------ TheEarlyDays.com and appearing regularly... Jimmy Crawford/Russ Hicks... and Buddy Emmons on Bass! aLotOfSpace.com
KENNY FORBESS Member From: peckerwood point, w. tn.	posted 10 November 2002 09:37 AM profile Yeah, Willie sings his "poor phraseing" all the way to the bank. If you listen to the Bass man and Drummer, you will have NO problem playing with Willie. This is a case where You Play YOUR instrument. ------------------ 66 Emmons D-10 bolt-on
Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y.	posted 10 November 2002 10:40 AM profile Willie Nelson made an artform out of bad timing. Just like Tubb did with his singing. The bass player and drummer should have been paid double. Got to agree with you Nick.
Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX	posted 10 November 2002 10:47 AM profile Nick, I just called Willie. He says that although he's not gonna hire you for the band, he wishes you'd play a Carter. ------------------ Herb's Steel Guitar Pages Texas Steel Guitar Association
b0b Sysop From: Cloverdale, California, USA	posted 10 November 2002 10:50 AM profile This has nothing to do with "Steel Players", so I've moved it to the "Music" section of the Forum. I've noticed that as some recording artists mature, they experiment with phrasing more. It's not just Willie. Listen to Merle Haggard or B. B. King, and you'll hear the same sort of thing. ------------------ Bobby Lee -b0b- quasar@b0b.com -System Administrator
Damir Besic Member From: La Vergne,TN	posted 10 November 2002 11:11 AM profile I guess George wasn`t much better with his "He stop loving her today" on CMA got in kinda late.
c c johnson Member From: killeen,tx usa	posted 10 November 2002 12:31 PM profile I am tempted to say what I think of Willies singing but he might ask me how many hits I've had. This type of singing used to run me nuts, timing of fills,etc: then one night at the Wagon Wheel in Austin Jimmy Day told me just to play in regular time and the singer would either phrase his words faster or what ever to stay in time. So far it's worked.
Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.	posted 10 November 2002 12:56 PM profile Yeah, Willie's phrasing was definitely exaggerated! And, Bobby is right...George does the same thing with his 2-letter, 5 syllable words. I think it's natural tendency to think that "if a little bit is good...a lot is better". But IMHO, these stylings become almost a "parody" if they're overdone. (But what the hell do I know?!) It wasn't unintentional, though, and Willie was smiling all the while...almost as if to say "no matter what I do...they still love me!" And he may be right.
Stephen Gregory Member From:	posted 10 November 2002 03:50 PM profile Amen!!! I loved Willie back in the days when Chet was producing his stuff. Back then a little of his unique phrasing was just the right "spice" to go along with his interesting tone and of course his great songs. Now, this "phrasing" has become as if it is a comedians impression of Willie. It is used to such a degree that it ruins the "flavor" of these wonderful songs. Musically and rhythmically his phrasing is totally predictable and not the least bit artistic. Willie, do your self a favor, and listen to some of your old RCA stuff.
Kenny Foy Member From: Lynnville, KY, USA	posted 10 November 2002 04:50 PM profile I think the problem with Willie's singing was there were no monitors and Porter Waggoneer .He was tring to stay with Porter and Poor Porter didn't have a clue to just a few of the words. Also the monitors weren't working, which Vince even acknowledged at the end of his song.He asked John Hughey to save the show which he did. And if you can't hear the music it is hard to sing. Even Willie said it was a train wreck.IMPO
Jeff Evans Member From: Fort Worth (not that other place 30 miles east)	posted 10 November 2002 04:57 PM profile It sounds as if he's using the Unjust Intonation method on his guitar. He also takes mighty liberties with melody. If you haven't heard the Bush version of "Whiskey River" then you really don't know what that song is supposed to sound like. Now that we've talked so sweetly about him, maybe Willie will hire a steel player. ------------------ Jeff Pale Monk of Cowtown "...reguards yo camara exposure nad roconition..." --From an actual Forum post. What language is this? Canadian?
Jim Florence Member From: wilburton, Ok. US	posted 10 November 2002 10:38 PM profile In the La Hayride days, Faron young did that sort of thing. I thought he was nuts, I was very young then, and the older guys would tell us to "Go ahead and play the song, he knows what he's doing and he will be there at the end of the melody line." They were right . I hadn't thought of it at the time, but Floyd tillman had done that years earlier. I've heard that Faron is the one who got Willie started doing that. Jim
Jody Carver Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever	posted 11 November 2002 06:32 AM profile I wished I had Willies Money and talent,ANYTIME,out of meter or otherwise.
ed stewart Member From: Greenwood, Indiana, usa	posted 11 November 2002 06:44 AM profile Willie's reaction at the end of the "Good Hearted Woman" fiasco was very good.--"This is the worst train wreck i've ever been in." Way to Go Willie!!! Always cool when the heat is on.
Jason Stillwell Member From: Soper, OK, USA	posted 11 November 2002 06:45 AM profile Willie's phrasing: you either (a)love it or (b)hate it. I choose selection "b". I saw him on one of those country homecoming shows on TNN: The Nothing Network, singing(?) "Funny How Time Slips Away". By the time it was over I was exhausted just from listening to it--which is ironic, considering the title.
Jeff Evans Member From: Fort Worth (not that other place 30 miles east)	posted 11 November 2002 10:41 AM profile See Willie Nelson, television actor, tonight, Monday 11 November on ABC's Monk.
Glenn Suchan Member From: Austin, Texas	posted 11 November 2002 10:41 AM profile Willie's career went "stratospheric" as a result of his unconventional style. His style when Chet was producing was Chet's style. When Willie Nelson left the "music city" to create his own sound in the '70's he didn't care what Nashville thought. I would venture to guess that it doesn't bother him what the "forum" thinks of his sound now (his phrasing is definately by choice). Willie Nelson has always been an innovator and there have always been folks who didn't care for his latest innovations. I, for one, am glad Willie's music is always metamorphasizing. We need more folks like him in country music. Johnny Bush would probably agree with that, too. Keep on pickin'! Glenn [This message was edited by Glenn Suchan on 11 November 2002 at 10:44 AM.] [This message was edited by Glenn Suchan on 11 November 2002 at 10:47 AM.]
Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX	posted 11 November 2002 10:48 AM profile quote: We need more folks like Willie Nelson in country music. Johnny Bush would proibably agree with that, too I can definitely vouch for that. Johnny called me two weeks ago and happily announced that Willie's duet with Trick Pony is going to be released platinum! Also another live Willie album will have the song, and a new album by Cross Canadian Ragweed will have the song, and one other version that I've forgotten will be released. Johnny has made a good living from that song, which I doubt would never have happened if Willie hadn't cut it something like 19 times! BTW, if you've ever played onstage with Willie, as I have, you would have a complete gas doing it. Just FYI. ------------------ Herb's Steel Guitar Pages Texas Steel Guitar Association
Jim Smith Member From: Plano, TX, USA	posted 11 November 2002 11:12 AM profile quote: BTW, if you've ever played onstage with Willie, as I have, you would have a complete gas doing it. Just FYI. I'll get a chance to do just that this Saturday. I don't have all the details yet, but we're backing up Willie and Hank Thompson somewhere early in the evening, before Willie's gig at Billy Bob's.
Jason Stillwell Member From: Soper, OK, USA	posted 11 November 2002 11:39 AM profile Attaboy, Jim! Sounds cool. I certainly don't completely dislike Willie. Wouldn't mind pickin' a little with him myself (or in my case, trying to).
Joe Casey Member From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)	posted 11 November 2002 12:10 PM profile Sounds like a fun Gig jim sign my name on his guitar will you? ------------------ CJC [This message was edited by Joe Casey on 11 November 2002 at 12:12 PM.]
Jim Cohen Member From: Philadelphia, PA	posted 11 November 2002 12:41 PM profile quote: I wish "Willie Nelson" would learn to sing in time quote: "In time, learn to sing, he will." -- Yoda [This message was edited by Jim Cohen on 11 November 2002 at 12:42 PM.]
Bob Shilling Member From: Berkeley, CA, USA	posted 11 November 2002 02:31 PM profile quote: Willie's phrasing: you either (a)love it or (b)hate it. (a) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! ------------------ Bob Shilling, Berkeley, CA--MSA S10, "Classic"
Janice Brooks Moderator From: Pleasant Gap Pa	posted 11 November 2002 02:42 PM profile quote: I can definitely vouch for that. Johnny called me two weeks ago and happily announced that Willie's duet with Trick Pony is going to be released platinum! Also another live Willie album will have the song, and a new album by Cross Canadian Ragweed will have the song, and one other version that I've forgotten will be released. Sorry I have no interest in the Trick Pony album. Johhny has a right to be happy with royolties but that does not mean I will buy every version for his sake. ------------------ Janice "Busgal" Brooks ICQ 44729047
Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX	posted 11 November 2002 03:17 PM profile quote: Sorry I have no interest in the Trick Pony album. Johhny has a right to be happy with royolties but that does not mean I will buy every version for his sake. Janice, I don't believe he expects you to.
Jim Florence Member From: wilburton, Ok. US	posted 11 November 2002 05:27 PM profile Ain't got time for this, I'm going to watch him on TV. They are about to arrest him. Jim
Jim Florence Member From: wilburton, Ok. US	posted 11 November 2002 06:02 PM profile They did arrest him, but he wasn't the bad guy. The bad guy was a woman. The clarinet player who saved the day looked a little like Herb. Jim
Bob Hayes Member From: Church Hill,Tenn,USA	posted 12 November 2002 09:00 AM profile Nick, You and I don't agree on a lot ol' buddy..But..I've been saying this for years..I think his last GOOD Album..with the Incrediable Jimmy Day which was cut back in the '70's. He thinks a "BEAT" is something grown in a garden..and a "METER" is what the electric and water guys read!!!!!!..AND ANY ONE WHO WOULD PLAY A GUITAR WITH MORE THAN ONE HOLE AND BAD STRINGS AIN'T ALL RIGHT..TOO MUCH OF THAT MEDICINAL rOPE sMOKE.. AND Herb..that was a cheap shot at Nick.... Some day HE MAY COME around too We Carter Players Thinking!!!!!! Grouchyvet
Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX	posted 12 November 2002 09:22 AM profile Bob I trust my friend Nick smiled when he saw the smiley (not Smiley) face on my post. I mean, he (Nick) does play a '66 Emmons, the second-best sounding steel ever made... the first being a '65 Emmons! ------------------ Herb's Steel Guitar Pages Texas Steel Guitar Association
Harry Hess Member From: Blue Bell, PA., USA	posted 17 November 2002 04:22 PM profile Dylan's always changing the timing of his phrasing to. Maybe the rest of us would to if we had to sing a song on about every performance for 30 or so years.
Ray Jenkins Member From: Gold Canyon Az. Pinal U.S.A.	posted 18 November 2002 11:52 AM profile I used to go hear Willie at jam sessions in central Texas,The County Line on Hy 31 beteween Corsicana and Waco,The Coconut Grove and another place by the General Tire plant that I can't think of the name.He sang the songs he had written and sang just like he dose now.Some liked him some didn't.I did.The players had a hard time with him so most of the time he sang by himself.I'm sure alot of the players back in thoes days wish they knew then what they know now.Anyway if the drummer and bassman just keep going,Willie will fall right back with the music,I've never heard him miss yet. Ray ------------------ Steeling is still legal in Arizona [This message was edited by Ray Jenkins on 18 November 2002 at 11:55 AM.] [This message was edited by Ray Jenkins on 18 November 2002 at 02:54 PM.]
Bob Blair Member From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada	posted 19 November 2002 04:49 PM profile Like you say, Ray, some dig it and some don't. I say thank goodness for Willie, and long may he march to his own drummer! We need more originals like him.
Smiley Roberts Member From: Hendersonville,Tn. 37075	posted 20 November 2002 03:02 AM profile Can't remember where I saw this but,I think it fits here. "Life would be pretty boring,if all the birds in the forest sounded the same!" On the "other side of the coin",I,too,liked Willie when he was on Liberty,& RCA. The problem today is,he's such an "icon",that he could žƒå®† on a record,& his "die-hard" fans would buy it,just to say that they had it. For the record,when I was working w/ Tommy Overstreet,we worked a club called,"The El Paso Cattle Co.",on Houston St.,in Austin. Willie "happened in",while we were on stage. T.O.,non-chalantly,announced his presence in the room. Willie just ran up on stage,grabbed T.O.'s guitar,& did about 20 mins. It was a day that I'll never forget. BTW,I had NO PROBLEM w/ Willie's timing.(maybe,'cause I play outta meter??) ------------------ ~ ~ ©¿© It don't mean a thang, mm if it ain't got that twang. www.ntsga.com
Joe Casey Member From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)	posted 20 November 2002 05:14 AM profile Speaking of time, I think it's time to help Willie count his money. That will take a long time ,especially if you have to count all he's made in time.So I guess somebody liked him at one time. What if Willie is doing it right and were all wrong? give it some time, think about it. I think it's time we all took the time to find out what time it is .Anyone know what time it is ? Hey willie what time is it?; ------------------ CJC
Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX	posted 20 November 2002 08:14 AM profile quote: For the record,when I was working w/ Tommy Overstreet,we worked a club called,"The El Paso Cattle Co.",on Houston St.,in Austin. Wow, I had forgotten about the ol' Cattle Co. It was originally a commercial bldg., then, after the EPCC, it became a disco. I have no idea what it's used for now, but I'll drive past next time I'm in town. Right off Lamar Blvd, in dreaded North Austin. ------------------ Herb's Steel Guitar Pages Texas Steel Guitar Association
Boomer Member From: Brentwood, TN USA	posted 20 November 2002 02:43 PM profile Who's Willie Nelson?????
Bob Blair Member From: Edmonton, Alberta, Canada	posted 20 November 2002 03:35 PM profile And speaking of time, Joe, ain't it surprising how it slips away?

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