The cover pic is actually from 1964, the original KCs recorded with electric instruments back in '65, and overall there's a lot more solo Clarence material from Paxton's studio that sadly wasn't utilised.
The upside is that some cool and rare records are on the set. There's a Dennis Payne track, that's the guy who co-wrote so many cool songs with Red Simpson, and others who were backed by CW.

If this set does well, then I suppose the next Ace/Big Beat reissue will be the complete Gosdin Brothers (1966-73 singles and their 1968 Capitol LP with CW and Paxton).
Forumite Carl Walden might pop up on a few tracks here and there as well as he worked in Paxton and Cotton's studio and is already represented on a previous comp by Ace/Big Beat dedicated to the Paxton sessions by Gib Guilbeau and Gene Parsons.

Apparently all of this has fired up John Delgatto of Sierra REcords and John has his own comp on the way from the same era.
Pretty interesting stuff, thanks for the post Nick.

Of course the New Riders were complete stoners, and Gram and Clarence died before the year was out, in the end the country-rock thing was pretty much a bust, but they (Warners) did push Emmylou Harris in '75, and we all know how that turned out.

Clarence cut a series of tracks in 1973, some of them were issued on a country-rock anthology of Warner artists by Sierra Records. The Sierra record was called Silver Meteor and is long out of print.
I've recently heard that there's a couple more unfinished tracks (scratch vocals, more overdubs intended) from the '73 sessions, but details are scarce.

The album did have a working title, but it was not completed.
It's one of those things, everyone likes to believe there was a whole album in the vault, but it's sadly not so.
Another story that went around years ago was that Clarence White cut an unissued solo LP in 1966, in reality he worked with a series of groups, cut some singles and some unissued stuff in 1967, and that was pretty much it.
That's why the Big Beat CD relies on other artists material so much.

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Regards, Craig

I was wondering, Lloyd, if you and Clarence (as well as who ever was playing bass) were provided with a melody for that song, or just a cord chart. In general, did you get any sort of direction from anyone on that album as far as what to play or how to play it, etc., or was it pretty much left entirely up to you?

What's also very interesting is to listen to the earlier takes of various songs provided on the expanded edition and compare them to the originally released versions. At least in some cases you can really hear how the song progressed from one take to another.

Furthermore, and as I believe has already been discussed here previously, it's amazing to note that the alternate version of "You're Still On My Mind" is listed as take #43(!!)

Interesting stuff!

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 26 February 2003 at 10:24 PM.]

Thanks very much for the info. I agree that the Sweethearts of the Rodeo album is an absolute landmark work, and it's really the main reason I became interested in steel guitar and country music. I've seen where there are plenty of people who feel the same. I think it has a certain timeless quality about it and it seems like I'll never get tired of listening to it (by the way, Lloyd, I'm glad the Byrds didn't restrain you in any way -- the results speak for themselves!).

I'm really glad that the expanded version of "Sweethearts" was released. I think the extra tracks really add valuable insight into the album.

That's interesting, Lloyd, that you and Clarence came up with the bulk of "All I Have Are Memories," yet Kevin was given sole credit. It's quite a nifty little gem of a song.

That's also an interesting tidbit about Bob Dylan and "You Ain't Goin(g) Nowhere." -- I had read somewhere that Bob Dylan made some reference to the words having been sung incorrectly on the "Sweetheart" version of that song, but I had not heard about the issue surrounding the title.

Apparently, all is well between Roger and Bob now because I understand that they toured extensively together within the last few years.

Thanks again for the interesting posts

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 27 February 2003 at 10:32 PM.]

Who's on 'Drug Store Truck Driving Man'? That's my favourite...

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Roger Rettig

[This message was edited by Roger Rettig on 28 February 2003 at 06:39 AM.]

FROM ALL MUSIC GUIDE:

Clarence White was a gifted guitarist who was one of the pioneers of country-rock in the late '60s. Although died young, his work with the Byrds and the Kentucky Colonels, among others, remained celebrated among country-rock and bluegrass aficionados in the decades following his death.

Born in Maine but raised in California, White began playing the guitar at an early age, joining his brothers' band, the Country Boys, when he was just ten years old. The band eventaully evolved into the Kentucky Colonels. Clarence left the Colonels in the mid-'60s, becoming a session musician; he played electric guitar on many rock and pop albums. He also began playing with the duo of Gib Gilbeau and Gene Parsons in local California clubs. Gilbeau and Parsons frequently worked with the Gosdin Brothers, so the duo was able to land a cameo appearance for White on the Gene Clark and the Gosdin Brothers album. Around the same time, Clarence recorded a solo album for Bakersfield International which the label didn't release.

In 1968, White joined Nashville West, which also featured Gene Parsons, Gib Gilbeau, Sneaky Pete Kleinow, Glen D. Hardin, and Wayne Moore. Nashville West recorded an album for Sierra Records, but the record didn't appear until 1978. White was invited to join the Byrds in the fall of 1968. Roger McGuinn was rebuilding the Byrds' lineup after the departure of Chris Hillman and Gram Parsons, who went on to form the Flying Burrito Brothers. Clarence White fit into the revamped Byrds' country-rock direction. He played on the group's untitled album, which spawned the single "Chestnut Mare." While he was with the band, he continued to work as a session musician, playing on Randy Newman's 12 Songs (1970), Joe Cocker's eponymous 1969 album, and the Everly Brothers' Stories Would Could Tell (1971), among others.

Once the Byrds disbanded in 1973, Clarence White continued his session work and joined Muleskinner, which also featured David Grisman, Peter Rowan, John Guerin, Bill Keith, John Kahn, and Richard Greene. Muleskinner only released one album, which appeared later in 1973.

After the Muleskinner record was finished, White played a few dates with the Kentucky Colonels and began working on a solo album. He had only completed four tracks when he was killed by a drunken driver while he was loading equipment onto a van; he died on July 14, 1973. Following his death, several posthumous albums of his work with the Kentucky Colonels and the Byrds appeared, as did various albums that featured his playing, including Jackson Browne's Late for the Sky and Gene Parsons' Kindling. -- Stephen Thomas Erlewine **copyright All Music Guide**

Chandler -- here is a discography for Clarence White taken from All Music Guide. Obviously, some of the entries may be inaccurate -- for example, I don't believe that Clarence played saxaphone or trombone, but I may be mistaken:

Aden Topsiders (2002)Guitar
Skip Battin Skip (1972)Guitar
Marc Benno Minnows (1971)Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar
Alex Bradford & The... Shakin' the Rafters (1960)
Jackson Browne Jackson Browne (1972)Guitar (Acoustic)
Jackson Browne Late for the Sky (1974)Keyboards
The Byrds Younger Than Yesterday (1967)Guitar, Guitar (Electric)
The Byrds Notorious Byrd Brothers (1968)Guitar
The Byrds Sweetheart of the Rodeo (1968)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Ballad of Easy Rider (1969)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Dr. Byrds & Mr. Hyde (1969)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Untitled (1970)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Byrdmaniax (1971)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Farther Along (1971)Guitar, Mandolin, Arranger, Vocals, Producer
The Byrds Play Dylan (1980)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Easy Riders (69/70) (1981)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds Byrds [Box Set] (1990)Guitar, Vocals
The Byrds 20 Essential Tracks From the Boxed (1991)Guitar, Vocals
Gene Clark with the Gosdin Gene Clark with the Gosdin... (1967)Guitar
Gene Clark Roadmaster (1972)Guitar (Electric)
Joe Cocker Joe Cocker! (1969)Guitar
Joe Cocker Joe Cocker's Greatest Hits (1977)Guitar
Joe Cocker Anthology (1999)Guitar
Joe Cocker 20th Century Masters - The... (2000)Guitar
Joe Cocker Greatest Love Songs (2003)Guitar
Rita Coolidge Rita Coolidge (1971)Guitar
Rita Coolidge Greatest Hits [Import] (2000)Guitar
Rita Coolidge Greatest Hits [Japan] (2001)Guitar
The Country Gazette Don't Give Up Your Day Job (1973)Guitar
The Country Gazette Traitor in Our Midst/Don't Give Up (1995)Dobro, Guitar, Guitar (Rhythm)
Delaney & Bonnie Motel Shot (1971)Guitar, Vocals
The Everly Brothers Stories We Could Tell (1972)Guitar
The Everly Brothers Home Again (1985)
The Everly Brothers Heartaches & Harmonies [Box Set] (1994)Guitar
Gib Guilbeau Cajun Country (1975)Guitar
Gib Guilbeau Classic Gib Guilbeau: 1968-1986 (2001)Guitar, Producer
Arlo Guthrie Running Down the Road (1969)Guitar
Arlo Guthrie Washington County (1970)Guitar (Electric)
Arlo Guthrie Hobo's Lullaby (1972)
Arlo Guthrie Last of the Brooklyn Cowboys (1973)Guitar, Guitar (Electric)
Barbara Hill & Chris... L.A. Getaway (1971)Guitar
The Kentucky Colonels New Sound of Bluegrass (1963)Guitar, Vocals
The Kentucky Colonels Appalachian Swing! (1964)Guitar
The Kentucky Colonels Long Journey Home (1964)Arranger
The Kentucky Colonels Kentucky Colonels (1973)Guitar, Vocals
The Kentucky Colonels Livin' in the Past (1975)Guitar, Vocals, Baritone (Vocal)
The Kentucky Colonels Living in LA with Scotty Stoneman (1975)Guitar, Vocals
The Kentucky Colonels... Kentucky Colonels 1965-1967 (1979)Guitar
The Kentucky Colonels White Brothers Live in Sweden (1979)Guitar, Vocals
The Kentucky Colonels On Stage (1984)Guitar, Vocals
Terry Melcher Terry Melcher (1974)Guitar
The Monkees Listen to the Band (1991)Guitar
The Monkees Missing Links, Vol. 3 (1996)Guitar
The Monkees Definitive Monkees [Bonus Disc] (2001)Guitar
The Monkees Definitive Monkees (2002)Guitar
Mother Hen Mother Hen (196 )Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar
Maria Muldaur Maria Muldaur (1974)Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar
Muleskinner With Richard... Muleskinner (1973)Guitar, Vocals
Muleskinner with Richard... Potpourri of Bluegrass Jam (1994)Guitar (Acoustic), Guitar (Electric), Vocals, Harmony Vocals
Muleskinner with Richard... Muleskinner Live -- Original... (1998)Guitar, Vocals
Nashville West Nashville West (1976)Guitar, Guitar (Electric), Vocals, Baritone (Vocal)\
Ricky Nelson Bright Lights & Country Music... (1998)
Rick Nelson Legacy [Capitol] (2000)Guitar
Randy Newman 12 Songs (1970)Guitar
Randy Newman Guilty: 30 Years of Randy Newman (1998)Guitar
Randy Newman Best of Randy Newman (2001)Guitar
Phil Ochs Greatest Hits (1970)
Phil Ochs Farewells & Fantasies (1997)
Gene Parsons Kindling (1973)Guitar, Mandolin
Gram Parsons Sacred Hearts and Fallen Angels:... (2001)Guitar
Earl Scruggs Revue Artist's Choice: The Best Tracks... (1998)Guitar
Archie Shepp Attica Blues (1972)Sax (Alto)
Paul Siebel Jack Knife Gypsy (1971)Guitar
Paul Siebel Paul Siebel (1995)Guitar
Wynn Stewart Wishful Thinking (2000)Guitar
Scotty Stoneman Live in L.A. [Rural Rhythm] (2003)Guitar, Vocals
Doc Watson Vanguard Years Sampler (1995)
Various Artists Rounder Bluegrass, Vol. 1 (1987)Guitar, Vocals
Various Artists Best of Shiloh & More, Vol. 1 (1988)Guitar
Various Artists Rounder Banjo (1988)Guitar
Various Artists Rounder Guitar: Acoustic Guitar (1988)Guitar, Guitar (Rhythm)
Various Artists Guitar Player Presents: Legends of (1990)Guitar
Various Artists Guitar Player Presents: Legends of (1991)Guitar (Acoustic)
Various Artists Son of Rounder Banjo (1992)Guitar
Various Artists Appalachian Stomp: Bluegrass... (1995)Guitar
Various Artists Heroes of Country Music, Vol. 5:... (1996)Guitar (Electric)
Various Artists Rounder Bluegrass Guitar (1996)Guitar, Vocals
Various Artists Christmas Flourish (1997)Trombone (Tenor), Tenor Trombone
Various Artists Appalachian Stomp: More Bluegrass... (1999)Guitar
Various Artists Country: The American Tradition (1999)Guitar
Various Artists Rounder Fiddle Guitar

It's also interesting to note that the above lists Clarence as providing vocals on the "Sweethearts of the Rodeo" album. My copy of that album credits Clarence only with guitar and not vocals. Perhaps Lloyd Green would know whether Clarence did, in fact, provide vocals for that album.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 28 February 2003 at 09:31 AM.]

I also don't know much about the "Live In L.A." record. It's possible that you could get a copy through Elderly Instruments. They seem to carry a lot of that kind of thing. Or, maybe try Sierra Records.

With regard to Terry Melcher, that's an interesting story. I haven't had a chance to read "Helter Skelter" yet. I don't know much about Terry Melcher, but I had always thought of him as more of a producer than anything else. I believe he produced several of the Byrds albums, but I'm not sure which ones.

Here's an interesting tidbit -- on the Byrds' "Sweetheart of the Rodeo" expanded edition CD, at the beginning of bonus track #15, you can hear two of the Byrds discussing the harmony parts of the song, when suddenly a buzzer sounds-off momentarily. Somebody (perhaps Chris Hillman?) then says, "that's Terry Melcher's favorite toy," to which somebody else (presumably Melcher?) says, "sorry about that, I hit it by mistake -- OK, take 11."

However, Terry Melcher is not listed anywhere in the credits of that CD.

The only other thing I know about Terry Melcher was that he was Doris Day's son, and that he was involved with Surf music in the early 60's, maybe with the Beach Boys (?). Also, one of the houses targeted by Manson's gang during it's murder spree was formerly owned by Terry Melcher. This of course fueled the rumor that Manson was out to get Melcher. But, I've never heard anything definitive with regard to that premise.

In regards to Mason Profit, they were on the Happy Tiger label, home to Red Rhodes and The Detours in the late 1960s.

Another Warner/Reprise act was Arlo Guthrie, his 1969 Reprise album "Running Down the Road" is now on Cd via Koch, and featured Clarence and James Burton. It's a pretty solid Guthrie style folk album meets country-rock.
Like Linda Ronstadt's 1969 album, it's really good, but not great. (of course it depends on ones taste, I think the Byrds, Poco and the Flying Burrito Brothers 1969 albums were better).

The AMG CW bio is workmanlike, and accurate to a point.

Eg:

Clarence did not record anything for Paxton in 1966, although the bio suggests that it was around the time that he recorded the album with Gene Clark and the Gosdin Brothers, which was cut in 1966.
Clarence did sign up with Paxton until mid 1967.

Recording a solo album would indicate that an actual solo LP and deal were under way, which wasn't really the case.
Paxton basically got everyone to cut as many tracks as possible, in many cases a couple of different singers were tried out on the tracks. And said tracks were leased out to a couple of different labels in some cases.
If going into a studio and cutting a heap of material indicates recording an album, then sure, Clarence recorded several solo albums.
It also means that Dennis Payne, Leo LeBlanc and many others have 'unreleased' solo albums, box sets, whatever.
Paxton leased out everything to ALshire or other labels, there was only one album ghe issued on his own labnel, and that was a late '69 album by Dennis Payne. The bulk of Bakersfield International tracks were singles or simply unissued.

"In 1968, White joined Nashville West."
No, actually he left the group in 1968, and the Nashville West band (only called that when they played the NW), was Clarence, Gene Parsons, Gib Gilbeau and Wayne Moore.
Sneaky Pete Kleinow and Glen D. Hardin wwere never members, and sat in with the group at most.

"Nashville West recorded an album for Sierra Records, but the record didn't appear until 1978."
Not quite.
There's a bandstand tape of Nashville West circa 1967, which John Delgatto of Sierra Records worked on and issued in 1978, then mastered for CD in 1997. Hardly a proper album deal. I believe Rev-Ola or Cherry Red have distribution on it now, or at least in Europe and the U.K.

There's a couple of Clarence White's as noted, one's a gospel singer.

[This message was edited by Jason Odd on 28 February 2003 at 04:11 PM.]

James Burton and David Cohen (not the guy from Country Joe & The Fish) helped get Clarence into the studio scene, although his early sessions were through friends like the Gosdin Brothers, Chris Hillman, Gene Clark, Gib Guilbeau and Gene Parsons, while he did some acoustic sessions in the early 1960s through his recordings with the KCs and the interest that the group attracted.

quote:

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Somebody (perhaps Chris Hillman?) then says, "that's Terry Melcher's favorite toy," to which somebody else (presumably Melcher?) says, "sorry about that, I hit it by mistake -- OK, take 11."

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