Its interesting that in the rock,pop, jazz and classical scene nobody cares at all anymore. I'm not sure about the hip hop scene.

If you found out that a country singer was gay would it affect how how much you like there music ?

Bob

quote:

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Gay from What? -You Know who you Are-

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If getting really drunk and forgetting what happened counts I'd venture to say that there are a long list of 'em already.

Least that's what I've been told.

Me?

One Crazy summer in Cub Scouts 40 years ago hardly qualifies.

quote:

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If I have to "come out" I'm going to be dragging a lot of people with me. -Anonymous Country Star-

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Why would a person wonder that anyhow Bob?

(Just kidding)

Eric "Damn Sure I Ain't" West.

And it's NOT a Silly Topic.

[This message was edited by Eric West on 07 January 2004 at 03:24 PM.]

To "maximize" their fan base?
Yes.

Country, or otherwise.

Ray Charles did as well as he wanted to. The Pointer Sisters made a good run at it with "Walking out the Door" ( or whatever it was) in the late 70s.

I'm waiting for a black, possibly gay, female to walk in and "Clean House". I'd LOVE to see it.

It's been a LONG time coming, but the backlash on the "Old Nashville Machine" is going to get bigger, the longer it takes.

Falls right in with one of my "listed hobbies"...

BTW Dolly dod a GREAT Co-Interview with Melissa Ethridge on one of the channels and did a concert with her. Sexuality WAS discussed, and it was a little "uneasy". I thought Dolly did just fine while Melissa tried to conceal her drooling..

I was wondering how somebody that sings as well as Dolly could stand to be in the same room let alone stage with somebody that sings more like a Frog.

That was all I marvelled at.

Money, I guess....

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 07 January 2004 at 06:27 PM.]

Moreover, music was more or less a "fallback" career for him. Before finally deciding to pursue music full time, and aside from a two-year stint in the Army, he had devoted nearly his entire life to becoming a major league baseball player by playing on various farm teams from about the age of 14.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 07 January 2004 at 07:00 PM.]

I know it's definitely Off Topic, but does anybody else miss his chronic unfettered "heretical" sense of humor?

Well behaved decorum is a trifle over rated. (So is hypersensitive, unsolicited advocacy.)

Jimmy I miss you, though meeting you only once, I hardly knew ye, as they say.....

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 07 January 2004 at 10:14 PM.]

<:0)

IMHO, the artists themselves are the ones who generally choose to make an issue of his/her own homosexuality, or bi-sexuality when they could choose to simply not talk about it. At least I believe that's been the case regarding all of the handful of artists that I have heard who are homosexual/bi-sexual.

If, as you've mentioned, sexual orientation is not important to the music, and given the fact that the issue is known to be so controversial, then why would an artis want to bring it up? The only reason I can think of is that they want to use it to bring attention to themselves and that just makes it doubly revolting.

[This message was edited by Tom Olson on 07 January 2004 at 09:53 PM.]

I've got my suspicions..

Maybe "Steel Players Who Eat Things Twice"....

Hmm.

Now where did I put that sandwich...

EJL

ROTFLMMFAO SIJCD I'm sure.

[This message was edited by Eric West on 07 January 2004 at 10:22 PM.]

Anybody got any "Announcements" to make?

Hmmm?

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 08 January 2004 at 12:14 AM.]

quote:

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The Pointer Sisters made a good run at it with "Walking out the Door" ( or whatever it was) in the late 70s.

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For the LIFE OF ME I can't understand why , to a dog EVERY one of them tilts their head sideways when they don't understand something.

Does it make it look different so they see a "key" or something? Maybe a different "pattern". Why do they ALL do it? They don't talk. They didn't ALL see tht RCA label.

(..... tilts head sideways.....)

OH! I Get it!..

Like I said it's about time for a black woman to come on the scene and make it happen. Maybe even a black woman steel player that sings and plays SHUFFLES like Bobbe Seymore!

Who knows..

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 08 January 2004 at 02:31 AM.]

But, imagine my big burley husband Tommy with a Yorki in his lap? There's a gentle giant in him.

How about John Floyd? I imagine him with a "hunting dog" named Old Blue.

Tony Davis? How about a mischievous Golden Retriever who brings all kinds of samplings back to the house after an afternoon run.

Jim Cohen - A Border Collie. He rounds people up - brings them together. Never bites, but gives the "evil eye" and intimidates through crossword puzzles.

Just a thought.

[This message was edited by Donna Dodd on 08 January 2004 at 02:37 AM.]

Dog Number 12

William Tecumseh Sherman ( I know Steve..)
Plus a black Lab and a Little black Pom.

Hard to say how many more.

EJL

[This message was edited by Eric West on 08 January 2004 at 02:54 AM.]

I admire anyone who can be honest with themselves and the world in spite of forcefull and agressive aprobation from some out there.

Is it an agenda not to want to be persecuted daily for being who you are?

Charlie Pride never had a choice of pigmentaion, but some people think all gays do have a choice. In some cases it was a choice of a preference and in many others choice wasn't even an issue.

If you don't want to be other than normal fine,
if you are already other than normal, why be forced to lie about it if you don't want to.

I will buy an artists work if it is good and for no other reason. I suspect we buy a lot of stuff from people in the closet, and don't care because it isn't any issue.
But make it an issue and some get bent out of shape.
If as a business decision and aritist stays in the closet that is also valid. But not as honest.

I have worked in several fields of endevour; music, video, theater, performance art and others,
with both in and out people.
All treated me with respect ad visa versa, and all were people I trusted not to cause me any grief.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 January 2004 at 03:41 AM.]

My most recent dog is a Malinois/Belgian shepard cross called Tilly.
And she is nice smart and loyal.
But her nickname was Tilt, she has huge ears and was ALWAYS triangulating sounds.
Like on land sonar.
She would even listen to food.

The dog before was Heather a 205 lb Great Dane, No question about house invasion with her.
One listen and people would not even think about trying the window.
She would bark at the classic 6 pane window looking onto the driveway,
and her bark eventually loosened two panes at the bottom...
But a big sweetie.

I don't think either dog was gay, but then they never mentioned a preference.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 08 January 2004 at 03:53 AM.]

quote:

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Jim Cohen - A Border Collie. He rounds people up - brings them together. Never bites, but gives the "evil eye" and intimidates through crossword puzzles.

---

"Gives the evil eye"?? Moi??

I am not gay, but I was raised in a loving home by a gay parent who lived "in the closet" for many years, and who only "came out" to me (but not 'publicly') late in life (although I knew and went thru my own adolescent consternation dealing with the fact). Had my parent been openly gay it would certainly have affected employment opportunities on their career track(the equivilent of a 'fan base'I guess) and jeopardized the ability to keep our household and family together.

I also play music regularly with an openly gay musician. I don't think his sexuality has affected his musicianship in any negative way. In the venues we've played nobody gives a rat's, and I've learned in conversations that he feels more comfortable being himself and 'damn the torpedoes' than he ever did in the closet.

I have also played with several folks who I suspected (or knew) were gay, but who weren't "out", and I believe the closet (not their sexuality) affected their musicianship by virtue of stress and fear of disclosure, with them turning to drugs/alcohol to "deal" with it...

I feel labels like "rug muncher" should not have been used in a serious discussion of the thread topic- it is perjorative and homophobic, akin to using ethnic slurs or anti Semitic language.

I am sure there are others of us who have gay family members, closeted or not, who can understand how I feel about this.

I don't think the artists' sexual orientation is directly relevant to the music they play unless it’s somehow featured or promoted in their songs. Country music being considered, as Harlan Howard put it, "3 chords and the truth", the artists' credibility is at the core if this issue. Country music fans want to believe that the artist believes what they are saying. So choice of material might be an limited. As a case in point, I never got into 14-year-old girls singing about love and commitment.

My favorite, Merle Haggard, has lived much of what he's written into his music and that's part of what makes it of interest to me. If I found out that Hag was gay I’d still consider his music tops. The real question, one I can't answer, is would I ever develop such longstanding appreciation for the musical works of a gay artist. I don't know. So much of country music is love songs and we often connect with the artists on an emotional level. I don't think that connection would be there.

If they want to sing songs promoting a gay lifestyle then I think they'll hit the wall. In the same way that I don't plan to buy Willie's latest song because I don't agree with the message he's promoting.

------------------
HagFan

"Your singing a song about making love to your drummer, Well gay guitar pickers don't turn me on..."

And Charlie Daniels' "Uneasy Rider '88":

"Take me back where the women are women and the men are men..."

Do I personally care, no. Would it affect the "country" fan base, without a doubt.

I wonder what became of that.

As for Charlie Pride,
it is my belief that he made it on the strength of his records with their strong country sound, before anyone noticed he was black.

In those days segration was pretty widespread, especially in Country Music.
But those were the days when you did not know what the band or artist looked like when you first heard the record.

I've heard that Charlie surprized many a DJ when he showed up for an on air interview.

Does this mean a gay artist can't:

Dance with their partner in public

Show normal public affection (peck on the cheek or hand holding) public

Thank their partner on stage for their love and support?

Seems like there's a lot of things that straight people do everyday in public that they take for granted or that they don't realize are statements about their sexual orientation.

"Don't ask,don't tell" sounds too much like "seperate but equal" to me.

I think a gay country star could hit the big time but they would have to be as tactful and
self-effacing (not sure that's the right word exactly) as Charlie Pride was when he had to "come out" as a black man.

I think the ethnic analogy is quite appropriate why? lessee-nature? or nurture?- I am on the side of folks being born "gay" therefore an ethnic analogy seems fair - you can't help how you are born ...(of course I also think certain folks are born to be steel guitarists)

if you think it IS a matter of nurture, that for instance a mother can turn her boy into a homosexual by coddling him, then let's equate it with, oh , say, "redneck."

One ain't born a redneck, but one's raisin' can sure turn a person into one. One may even take a perverse pride in refering to oneself as such.
In much the same way black folks have taken the "N Word" and turned it from an ethnic slur to a cultural endearment among themselves, male homosexuals have taken the derogatory "queer" and done the same. but I am pretty sure lesbians don't call themselves "rug munchers".

Therefore it was and is used as a slur...

anyway, even if the music's good, it still won't matter to the average country music fan... KD Lang proved that much. She made some great country records, recorded with Owen Bradley fer cryin out loud- yet her primary success is among pop fans.

The first band I worked in with her was "run" by a guy named Harlan that was a jerk. He was totally "homophobic", and started making comments, and asked me what I thought of "it" with the idea of making trouble for her. I simply told him that if it "Really mattered" then he would have told me "before I joined the band". That shut him up.

I worked with her in three different bands. She wasn't the "cigarette pack in the t shirt sleeve" gay, she just liked women. More than once I used to have to remind her when swooping on 'Chicks' that "I saw her first". I have some REAL funny stories.

What I found was that the usual pitfall of the "female singer diddling the drummer" or whatever problems were virtually non existant.

UNTIL, I might add she got "healed" with the guitar player. All of a sudden we didn't rehearse, she didn't book the band very far ahead, and STUPID OLD ERIC was the "Last to know". I blew up, of course as my life depended on my music money, and told her I liked her better when she was "gay". Well, they fired me and withing a month, that was the end of that band... Funny I'd kind of "forgotten this".

I remember my "Sh*t Howdy Lesbian Lawsuit" post a year or so ago when we canned her and got fired at one of her girl friends' club jobs, sued them and won.

Here's where my 'rednecketyness' comes in I suppose.

With women, I believe and of the opinion that it is not "abhorrent". In Western Society it is perfectly OK for unrelated women to sleep together non-sexually ( or otherwise I suppose, as "who knows?") in say motel accommodations, where it is not for men. I don't know how they do it in France...

Further, I don't believe that women that are intimate with each other are gay. SO shoot me. I think they're just either slightly confused, when one decides to become a "guy" or just "extra feminine". They rarely do it successfully. It's rough "out here". I know of a couple cases that I won't bore us with. One was a janitor in my first grade school, that nobody knew was a woman, and another was a female tow truck company operator Joey, on Mt Hood that runs a Semi-Wrecker.

One case a grand daughter of an excavator I worked for wanted to become a man. She "married" a stripper named Brandy. I saw her after being gone from the company for a couple years, and she/he looked really bad, skinny and splotchey. I asked her how "it was going". She allowed as how the stripper took all her money and burned her/him in bills, and basically ruined her/his life. I said "Well Karen, they all go nuts sooner or later.. Welcome to the world of men..

I have a "girl friend" that has a "girl friend", and I just don't see "the harm"..

If anything, I think it's "Cute" and to me it's kind of a 'status symbol'. She's actually just a casual acquanitence, but I kind of "pretend otherwise"...

With men I believe it's an unsanitary and despicable act. If I know about it, I don't like it. We had SEVERAL of them in the AF before the "policy things", and we didn't really care nor harass them, we just didn't "hang with them" in MOST cases.

If they make the decision to "let people know about it" I wouldn't work for them, hire them, buy their records, or support them in any way. I have worked for and with child molesters thieves and murderers similarly, and divested myself of them at the nearest opportunity.

With women, like I told Mary Curtis, "As long as I don't look out and see a bunch of crew cutted women with packs of camels in their t-shirt sleeves, I could care less."

Besides who among us red blooded guys wouldn't....... (nevermind)...

Guess I'll get shot now....

Oh well, things were going slow here anyhow..

EJL

PS. Keep in mind that MANY times you'll see straight women dancing with each other, and if you care to check, often "gay" ones, in the most red neckety bars. Nobody seems to notice. Back East the old "Paul Jones" line would have plenty women together in it.

Guys?, Anbody remember Stalag 17?. I've seen more than one two man tap dancing, Irish Jig, or Clogger deals, even in the local truck stop.

As far as "gay couples" doing this "Support Thing" "onstage". Go ahead and try it Adrian, theres a lot more Gay Truckdrivers then you think..

[This message was edited by Eric West on 08 January 2004 at 01:23 PM.]