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 Nashville Number System
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Ron Sodos Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA |
posted 17 June 2004 02:57 PM
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To all the people who think the Nashville Number System was actually invented in Nashville. Check this out. http://www.stevenestrella.com/composers/index.html?ancientmusic.html Or another (even better)http://www.webster.sk.ca/GREENWICH/natbasis.htm [This message was edited by Ron Sodos on 17 June 2004 at 03:29 PM.] |
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Ron Sodos Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA |
posted 22 June 2004 09:59 AM
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I saw Wynton Marsallis in concert last night. He spoke about ancient Greece developing the numbers for 1,4,and 5 tonic, sub dominant, and dominant......  |
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Jerry Hayes Member From: Virginia Beach, Va. |
posted 22 June 2004 11:46 AM
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In the area I live, the number system is virtually non existant. In the LA area all the musicians of any level used it as well as hand signs such as 2 fingers downward being Bb as in the key signature of 2 flats. A friend of mine here took a couple of college music classes and came out with a different slant than what we used to use. For instance, in the key of C if I wanted a D or D7 chord I'd call it a two or two-seventh. What he was taught was a two was a D minor and regular D would be called five of five. I guess this is correct but I like the way I was taught much better. Have a good 'un, JH ------------------ |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 22 June 2004 12:22 PM
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I don't know anyone who believes it originated in Nashville. It's just easier to call it that, than describe it. Same thing with English Muffins. |
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Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA |
posted 22 June 2004 01:22 PM
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What about Canadian bacon, Joey???? I used to be in a band with a lady who had a degree in music. We'd INEVITABLY get into arguments about the "five of five" thing Bro. Jerry describes. She was right, but who wants to holler "FIVE OF FIVE" across a noisy stage, when "TWO" is much more understandable? BTW, Joey, there's : French toast : Chinese arithmetic : Grecian Formula : French ticklers : Greek waxing(ask a lady) And my personal favorite------ "WASHINGTON INSIDER" |
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C Dixon Member From: Duluth, GA USA |
posted 22 June 2004 01:31 PM
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"polish notation" |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 22 June 2004 02:28 PM
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I'm familiar with Nashville Numbers. and fingers pointed up or down to indicate key signatures, but that "five of five" is a new one for me Jerry. Also, the way people I know do number charts, it's assumed that the 2, 3, and 6 are minor, unless otherwise noted. In an earlier post Paul Franklin said where he works they are considered Major unless otherwise specified. Who are ya going to listen to? |
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Jerry Hayes Member From: Virginia Beach, Va. |
posted 23 June 2004 06:37 AM
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I refuse to use the system they use here in Southern Virginia!! Someone will yell out "SEVEN" and that's supposed to be the key of G as it's the 7th letter of the alphabet, A being one, B being two, etc. I don't even acknowlege that system but that's what they all use here. Joey, as far as what Paul Franklin says about it he's correct. That's the way it was on the west coast as well. It's always major unless noted (Example 1 2m 3m 4) would be D Em F#m G and so forth. What session work I did in the old days we'd do some of our own notes also on other changes. Sometimes I'd see a C+ for a C augmented or sometimes just the small letters (aug) after the chord such as Faug. A diminished would either be (dim) or a minus (-) sign after the chord. All in all, I really miss working with musicians who had the knowlege of this as it was more professional and made things a lot easier. What's strange is that I did a session with a song writer/guitarist named Jerry Cole who was a very proficient player having worked the Beach Boys Pet Sounds album as well as the Sonny & Cher TV show among other. He gave us a chart with multiple chord changes for one of his tunes written out in regular chord symbols (ex. C Am Dm G7). We ran through the tune which went up a half step after each verse. After the first run through the bass player (Jimmy Lee Morris) and I both realized that all the changes were the same, it just went up a half. We asked him to hold on for a little and in about 30 seconds we'd each written our own number chart and used it for all the verses and nailed the damn thing on the first try. I don't know why JC did those charts like that being the level of musician he was. The number thing just makes it a lot easier and you can play a tune in any key with the same chart....Have a good 'un. JH ------------------ |
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Joey Ace Sysop From: Southern Ontario, Canada |
posted 23 June 2004 12:07 PM
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Jerry, I never heard of your "Virginia Method". Why not just yell G ? If ya hold up seven fingers, folks will play in C#. Your example of transposing is where the number system shines. Of course I never doubted PF's remark. [This message was edited by Joey Ace on 23 June 2004 at 12:09 PM.] |
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Bob Wood Member From: Campbell, California, USA |
posted 23 June 2004 03:32 PM
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Carl, it could be "Reverse-Polish Notation"! Bob |
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Miguel e Smith Member From: Phoenix, AZ |
posted 25 June 2004 10:18 AM
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Many consider the originator of the number system to be Bach. It is often referred to as figured bass and was in Roman numerals. Although there were exceptions to even those rules, the II (2) was always a minor, III a minor, VI a minor and the VII a diminished. I'm not a historian and I don't doubt there may have been many evolutions even leading up to Bach's period of time. Nowadays, the system is considered major unless otherwise noted. I'm surprised players in the Virginia area don't adhere to the basics most of us now know, because I've worked with many players (jazz also) from NY, Conn., Jersey area that completely understand and use what many call the Nashville number system. They may use slightly different terms (i.e.; instead of a "diamond" for a whole note hold they usually call it a "football"). Some still use a small "m" after a number to denote minor (although it's more common to see a small dash up and to the right of the number itself for minor). Fingers up and down for key signatures are pretty common everywhere I've been. I recently did a session and the producer (a really talented cat) said he had a numbers chart. He did, but it was all in Roman numerals and they weren't easy to read 4-bar lines and blocks of lines per verse, chorus or bridge. I used it but it was very distracting and difficult to make my eyes go back to a certain spot when looking back and forth between the chart and the axe. |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 25 June 2004 05:14 PM
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FWIW, figured bass is a notation system that has nothing to do with which note (or chord) is I, IV, V, etc. [This message was edited by Earnest Bovine on 25 June 2004 at 06:10 PM.] |
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Terry Edwards Member From: Layton, UT |
posted 25 June 2004 09:35 PM
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The Nashville Number System: A number system employed by record company executives in Nashville, affectionately known as "suits", to maximize profit and minimize creativity. The numbers utilized are always preceded by the "$" symbol. i.e. $1k, $4000, $500,000... |
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Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX |
posted 26 June 2004 05:51 AM
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Re: "five of five" I've frequently heard that term and used it, and my high school music teacher called it a "secondary dominant." The guys I played with called it a "2 dominant," as opposed to a "2 minor." Didn't Hoyt Hawkins of the Jordanaires, rightly or wrongly, receive credit for introducing the Nashville Number System to the studio scene there? ------------------ |
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Erv Niehaus Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA |
posted 26 June 2004 06:54 AM
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Why don't you just learn to read music? |
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Earnest Bovine Member From: Los Angeles CA USA |
posted 26 June 2004 07:58 AM
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quote:If no one in your world can write, there's no point in learning to read. |
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Miguel e Smith Member From: Phoenix, AZ |
posted 26 June 2004 09:15 AM
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Ernest, thanks for pointing that out. However, what I wrote was "..It is often referred to as figured bass..". Whenever a conversation is brought up concerning Bach (and maybe this has never happened in your circles), even schooled musicians will say something like "Oh yeah, the figured bass thing". I think the reason is that somebody got that idea and spread it around and it caught on. I write it off as being street education (regardless of where the degrees came from). Mike |
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Larry Robbins Member From: Fort Edward, New York, USA |
posted 26 June 2004 11:24 AM
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I understand the Nashville number system as well as the finger/sign language you guys were talking about a few post back...Why just the other night the whole crowd tried to help me by giveing me the sign for the one chord(finger) Bless thier hearts!  ------------------ |
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basilh Member From: United Kingdom |
posted 29 June 2004 05:30 PM
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Over here the 'Five of Five' is called the 'Double Dominant' Baz ------------------ quote: |
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