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  Carlos Santana-Scale?

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Author Topic:   Carlos Santana-Scale?
Keith Hilton
Member

From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721

posted 16 November 2004 05:32 PM     profile     
Does anyone know what scale Carlos Santana seems to always play out of. It does not sound like the Blues Scale to me. It is a different sounding scale. Thanks
Joey Ace
Sysop

From: Southern Ontario, Canada

posted 16 November 2004 07:04 PM     profile     
Hi Keith,
Santana's work is very much Dorian Mode, with a slight bit of standard Pentatonic scale.

I'm thinking of his early work, such as "Evil Ways", not
later music such as "Smooth".

A good description of the Dorian Mode, as applied to standard guitar can be found here.

Don Joslin
Member

From: Trapped in Minnesota and longing for New Mexico

posted 19 November 2004 03:58 PM     profile     
He's been known to use a lot of Phrygian too - the flat 2 gives a real latin sound.

Don

------------------
Country Music - (kun'tree myoo'zik) n. - Three chords and the
--------- truth.

Sam Marshall
Member

From: Chandler, AZ USA

posted 19 November 2004 04:35 PM     profile     
He uses natural, harmonic, and melodic minors, too. Dorian and petatonic are always good as mentioned earlier.

If he is playing in a minor key and its 5 chord is altered, but definately major dom 7, try harmonic minor to emphasize the 3 and flat 9. He had a hit about 2 or 3 years ago that did this. The 2 chord was often a minor flat 5, which also fits in this scheme.

Sam

erik
Member

From:

posted 19 November 2004 05:17 PM     profile     
Well, does he really play specific scales or just the notes he's used to playing for his style - which could mean whatever sounds good to him? I thought he was self-taught.

------------------
-johnson


Jim Peters
Member

From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA

posted 19 November 2004 08:28 PM     profile     
A very easy way to get the right notes is this: In Dm(Black Magic Woman), use the notes in a C major scale, in Am, use notes in Gmajor scale. In other words, a whole step below the minor 1 chord. These are only the notes, it will not give you the feel, but they work! JP
Marc Friedland
Member

From: Vallejo, CA

posted 20 November 2004 11:52 PM     profile     
Keith,
In addition to psg, I also play 6-string & keyboards.
In order to help you figure out what kind of scale Carlos Santana generally plays out of, I sat down and reviewed the primary notes he plays in Black Magic Woman & Smooth for the intros & the bulk of the solos.

(I guess this is what happens when I have too much time on my hands by the unusual situation of not having any gigs this weekend.)

I find that in both songs, he pretty much uses the same scale.
In Black Magic Woman, the chords used in the song are primarily Dm, Gm, Am & A7. The main notes used are:
D E F G A Bb C C# (The C# is used rarely, typically only when the A7 is in play)
If you take the C# out of the equation this would equal an F major scale, or similar to what Jim said a C scale, but actually a C7 scale, not a C major scale, because of the Bb note used as compared to a natural B note.
Starting with the D as 1, it’s 1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b, 7
I simply call this scale, “D minor”

-- If this song used a “G” chord as compared to the Gm it does have, then I would agree with Jim, because then all the notes used (with the exception of the occasional C#) would be all in the key of C major, D E F G A B C
If this were the case, I would simply refer to this scale as “Rock & Roll D Minor.”

In Smooth, the chords used are Am, F, E7, Dm, & G. (Yes, I know there are a couple of others used in spots)
Again we can use the same formula starting with A as 1.
1, 2, 3b, 4, 5, 6b, 7b, 7 equaling A B C D E F G G#
I guess you can call this a C major scale with an added sharp5 or flat6, but no matter what you prefer to call this scale, to me it’s just “A minor.”

I realize there are many variations and definitions of a “minor scale.” and I understand that people who play a wider variety of music than I do would give them reason to need more detailed labeling, in addition to the fact that music theory requires it. I apologize if my ignorance in this area is disturbing to anyone.
I would guess almost all of the “minor” music I play requires me to play either the “Minor Scale” or “Rock & Roll Minor Scale” as I described above.
I realize this is my own terminology, but its simplicity works for me.

Keith, I hope I was able to express myself clearly enough, without making it sound more complicated or more confusing than it really is.
If you feel I can be of any assistance in this area, don’t hesitate to send me an email or give me a call at 707 644 1667 (California time).

-- Marc

Tim Harr
Member

From: East Peoria, Illinois

posted 25 November 2004 07:35 PM     profile     
Sam Marshall hit it on the head.


Kevin, I really dig that stuff too!

Tim

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