I know all the drummer jokes, so spare them, I'm serious here.

The guy is very coopertive, and plays well.
He has about 60 songs on our set list. All commercial covers.

A click track in ear bud monitors is not an option, since we don't have ear buds.

Thanks in advance

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Zum U-12 w/True Tone pickup thru a Nashville 112

Strats thru a tweed Bassman

Band Pics
http://community.webshots.com/album/176544894AuXSmi

I have seen drummers use a single ear-piece type of headphone with their programmable metronome. I think that would be a good compromise, giving the drummer a reference. The single ear piece wouldn't look too bulky either.

I have seen (I think a drummer on The Opry, or The drummer) wear actual studio headphones - I am assuming with a click track.

I know you said that in-ears for the whole band were not an option, but I have loved having the click in my ears with Jo Dee. It has really helped develop my sense of timing - and continues to show me how far I have to come!!

Good luck,

David Spires

[This message was edited by David Spires on 20 April 2005 at 11:45 AM.]

1 (and) 2 (and) 1 2 3 4

Seems like the click tracks and metronomes are more of a corrective measure if the drummer is having trouble KEEPING the tempo.

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[This message was edited by Mark Herrick on 20 April 2005 at 12:01 PM.]

Like anything else, if you never do it you're probably not going to be good at it immediately, so it's worth it to practice. What if you've got a sub on drums for a gig?

I agree the ideal would be knowing the songs perfectly and having perfect meter.

Not everyone is blessed with this, but I believe it can be developed, well maybe not perfect but close.

David's comments confim what I've heard from many pro touring players, they use a click.
Club players seem to pride themselves on not needing external help, that explains why many club bands I hear are playing too darn fast.

With the excitement of a good crowd, the adrenalin flows and the tempo follows.

I don't see why a metronome earpiece would be distracting if used discretly.

Our drummer is using light headphones with a programmable click. He has a et list with all tempos written down and programmes the click just before the set, so he just has to press one button to continue to the next song.

He started using the clickseveral years ago after being sceptical for a while. His main problem were some tempo "ups and downs". I think he is really used to the headphones right now (or at least he's not complaining anymore )

Kind Regards, Walter

www.lloydgreentribute.com
www.austriansteelguitar.at.tf

I've listened to bands both amateur and professional count over one measure, and it's uncalled for. Constantly hearing someone saying "1-2-3-4-1-2...", or "1,2...1,2,3,4..." gets old real fast, and there ain't nothing "professional sounding" about it.

Donny,
If it dies, I expect him to be pro enough to continue.
It's the same as my electronic tuner. I don't want to be without it, but if it failed I would be able to continue.

Thanks again, and still looking for more advice.

Our bandleader/female vocalist would sometimes give a little introduction to the next tune while doing banter with the audience, occasionally followed by yelling the count to the song. She was a great singer and wonderful person to work with, but kinda high-strung and invariably would yell out the count at breakneck speed, causing some of the bandmembers to nearly soil their drawers.

Luckily for me, being on steel and regular guitar, I had most of the intros, and if I had a bar or two solo, I'd kick it off at the proper speed despite her tripletime count and the band always followed. Other times we just ignored her count, the drummer clicked the proper speed with his sticks and we went into it. She was good-natured about it.

I think the electronic metronome device or Beat Meter (wouldn't that pretty much be the same thing?) is the best answer in Joey's case. The one our drummer had was programmable, stored the song titles, speeds, everything. I think he could even make setlists in it so it had the songs in the right order.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 20 April 2005 at 05:24 PM.]

A good drummer should be able to come in, and maintain the tempo - AND TO REMEMBER, god forbid, to always PUSH a fast song, and lay back on a slow one, but don't let it DRAG. Slow songs actually MOVE out.

Does a drummer always have to kick off a song? If he can do it and show everyone else that his way is the way, than OK.

Depends on the drummer. I've worked with Tim Hileman and Rick Blumenthal, on
Bainbridge Island, WA. Rick was in the NYC jazz circuit for years, before moving to WA.
He knew drums.

Tim Hileman was from Arizona
when I met up with him, also on Bainbridge, and he was a great drummer, and great singer to boot, with a drop dead baritone. He knew how to count, and knew all the nuances.

But aside from guys like above, I say leave the tempo setting to the singer and or lead person - even accapello [sp].

Chip

Concerning metronomes, we use one quite consistently during rehearsals, but at gigs we should know the approximate tempo.

Pete Burak mentioned a metronome with a light. The implication is that the drummer used the light to bring in the tune. I can see that being effective. However, I suspect that the drummer then ignored the metronome. I can't imagine a drummer forcing a metronome beat through an entire tune, and then another, and then another. I suspect that type of rigidity would soon sound "stiff". My bluegrass band tried to use the metronome through entire tunes. We were frequently distracted by trying to maintain the rigidity. A better exercise for us was to launch into the tune with the metronome. Someone then turned if off. At the completion of the tune, we would turn it back on to judge our speed at the end, and we were consistent enough to keep us happy.

[This message was edited by Bryan Bradfield on 20 April 2005 at 07:33 PM.]

I've been in other bands where someone besides the drummer counted the songs. Sometimes I did it myself. I haven't seen any evidence of any particular instrumentalist being better suited at counting in the songs over any other. All that matters is the count timing is right, with the right tempo.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 20 April 2005 at 07:56 PM.]

They either can or they can't.

Listening to excuses is almost non ending, though I have to admit, I've heard every excuse from the phase of the moon, to the time sound tales to travel across the stage, to "bands can't play in perfect rythym".

It's a group effort, a communication test, and ultimately the drummer's job.

When they do it well, there's no finer feeling of ease of playing.

When they don't, there's nothing more exhausting.

Electronic cues, and devices are a very good point, as long as they're follwed. I'm sure they have some pretty good programmable ones out there.

Good Luck.

I even played, lately, with some adventurous young "bangers", and they thought they could open the song. Not to be. That's why I'm so thrilled, now, that in my life, to date, I have had the pleasure to play with REAL drummers. circa: 1978-1984.

Chipper

Well stated. Now, where does the art get in here????

It gets in, betwen the lines.........

....."Between the edge of darkness and the break of day".....

...."Where the river changes directions"...
"Across The Great Divide"....

ATGD - Kate Wolf.

Chip

[This message was edited by CHIP FOSSA on 20 April 2005 at 09:25 PM.]

I was fortunate to attend a "Tower Of Power" concert in Lindsay last week. Same as James Browm. TIGHT!

The band has been constantly on the road for 37 years. 3 original members (out of 10).

That's not the reality for us Weekend Warriors.

[This message was edited by Joey Ace on 21 April 2005 at 05:11 AM.]

The guy we got to replace him had a Boss Dr. Beat that clipped to his hi-hat stand. By the time we were finished with one song, he had the new tempo dialed in and was kicking it off- had the BPM's on every song written beside the title.

I hear what Jim Phelps is saying about not being so "legalistic" about tempos. I used to agree... but after struggling with the first of these two drummers, I came to understand that the "groove" of some songs only works at a certain tempo... you speed it up or slow it down, and it's not the same. Not only that, but the drummer I'm telling you about would sometimes realize that he was wrong, and then the tempo would wander all over the place- it was maddening. Like the band that Kevin Hatton is describing, we were under a lot of pressure to deliver a uniform, quality product every night. Having those tempos nailed down helped tremendously, and changed the tone of inter-band relationships.

My high school band director used to get the tempos off the second hand on his watch. Why dont'cha try that??

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 21 April 2005 at 07:31 PM.]

Does anyone know of a good drummer in So. California? Im preparing a session and need a drummer out thata way.

Someone close to The San Fernando Valley or thereabouts. Any help will be appreciated.

Reread my original unedited post.

I think technology helps.
Reread David S's post. He states the click he hears in JoDee's band is helping him. David's agreat player.

We should use whatever tools are available to improve ourselves. Don't make them a crutch, but use them properly.