|
 The Steel Guitar Forum
 Music
 Gibson Loses Trademark Appeal (Page 2)
|
| This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 |
next newest topic | next oldest topic |
| Author | Topic: Gibson Loses Trademark Appeal |
|
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA |
posted 19 September 2005 09:38 PM
profile
"Will Mr. Werbin's pathetic boot-licking be enough?" A REAL nice comment, about a VERY nice gentleman running a music store---seems to be a rarity, doesn't it, Rick??? |
|
Rick McDuffie Member From: Smithfield, North Carolina, USA |
posted 20 September 2005 04:13 AM
profile
Steve, here was a man trying to do something to grow his business by breaking his dependence on the "traditional" product lines. Gibson didn't like it, so they sued him. Sue Elderly Instruments? That probably IS the moral equivalent of suing your mama. Read Mr. Werbil's remarks; his response is to say "we didn't mean it." Obviously they DID mean it, and you can't blame them for trying to sell a good quality banjo on which they can make a reasonable profit (as opposed to the Gibson stuff that ALL the other catalog/internet guys have, and which they're probably being forced to sell for a few dollars over actual cost). I know what I'm talking about here- for years, I competed effectively with Elderly and all the others on internet sales of Taylor Guitars, and watched my profit margin steadily evaporate. Sold a LOT of fine guitars, but I just didn't make any money. You can't fault Elderly or any other retailer for trying to develop some proprietary lines that will make them a profit. It's just unfortunate that (1) Gibson is trying to intimidate and strong-arm a long-time friend and loyal supporter like Elderly and (2) that Elderly is folding up under pressure. Caving in to them will be like giving a drink to an alcoholic. Elderly has the reputation and strength to tell Gibson to stuff it, and keep on truckin'. I wish they would. I may have a Mom n Pop operation in a one-horse town, but at least nobody tells me what to do! [This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 20 September 2005 at 05:15 AM.] |
|
Keith Cordell Member From: Atlanta |
posted 20 September 2005 05:29 AM
profile
American made is only good when the American company is not putting the screws to the American public. Gibson strongarms its dealers, treats the buying public like millionaire idiots, and has lowered the quality of the product while pricing has gone totally through the roof- largely due to its ongoing partnership with GC. I long ago gave up on the idea that an American company can force loyalty down our throats simply due to location. The American automotive companies spent 25 years getting their butts kicked before they figured this out; now their pricing is comparable to or competitive with the foreign makers. For the first time since the '70's, I drive a Chevy. Of course, Honda and Toyota cars are currently being built here too, so the lines are being blurred. Gibson has been so aggrieved by PRS as a result of their own blunders. Take a stock PRS at $2000 and it looks better than anything Gibson has ever built. Better quality woods, hardware and design. A PRS sounds pretty much like every other PRS, which has both positive and negative connotations, but at least they are consistent. You can play any 10 new Gibsons and you might find 2 that are reasonably decent, at a higher price than the PRS. Gibson needs to wake up- treast your best customers like patsies and you might end up getting spanked. |
|
Drew Howard Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A. |
posted 20 September 2005 06:39 AM
profile
If I want a Gibson I'll buy a Gibson, etc., etc. Sounds like some lawyers got a little alpha over there at Norlin HQ. I used to hang at the Kazoo factory in the '70's, a wonderful place with long-time employees. Drew ------------------ |
|
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA |
posted 20 September 2005 06:42 AM
profile
First of all, Keith, I was one of the old guys who actually BOUGHT a PRS, along about '88 or '89, when they were hand-built by Paul and his "Merry-Prankster-ish" crew up in Annapolis. That was one of the most beautiful, well put together, best playing guitars I will ever own. But tone? WHAT tone??? The guitar had ABSOLUTELY NO TONE!! And since this guitar was built back when Paul was accessible, even to a clown like me, I had several phone conversations with him, and he tried to "build" tone into that guitar. It NEVER happened, the guitar sounded like an unplugged lap steel, and I went back to Fenders and Gibsons. The Les Paul which I now own, was bought NEW from a "mom and pop store," Rick. Jackson Music, Grand Island, NY. Great bunch of folks to deal with, have fun with, and, this weekend, go visit! Price? $1667.00, including case and shipping---This when Musicians' so-called Friend was selling the same guitar for 1999.00, shipping NOT included. This is getting sorta off-topic, but one reason the mom and pop store is dying, is because of the way customers are treated. When a call is made to M.F., EVERYBODY is the same, as long as they're holding that plastic. Most local stores seem to have forgotten customer courtesy, and those that haven't, are THRIVING, at least in my area. I don't want to order gear through the mail, but I WILL NOT be treated rudely, looked down on, or talked down to, just because somebody is trying to sell a kid an over-profited guitar, and a series of lessons at the local music store. I think I've paid more dues than that! As for the Gibson vs. PRS suit, I'm glad it's over, as I have stated. When is Gibson gonna go after the mandolin builders who are making F-5 shaped mandolins? And what difference does it make, if a buying public knows which is the better instrument, and buys accordingly. Wasted court time, and bad press, as witnessed by this thread. And, BTW, have any of you played any new Gibsons? Does Fender have more integrity, with their "relic'd" series of Strats and Teles, already beat up, for 3 times the money? Rick, are you a Fender dealer? Got any SRV Strats? You know, the ones that came out with AFTER SRV's death? You guys who see Gibson, Fender, Martin, and the other major manufacturers as lovely folks, trying to build nice instruments for wonderful people, are deluding yourselves! Leo's dead, Orville's dead, and Martin would rather sell a John Mayer (WHO???) model to the kids, and turn their backs on the 'grassers and country guys who put 'em on the map. More about endorsements in the next installment. |
|
Keith Cordell Member From: Atlanta |
posted 23 September 2005 03:26 PM
profile
Yeah, I remember us having that discussion about PRS. I don't particularly care for the PRS sound either, but then there isn't a guitar on the planet that has humbuckers that I'd be interested in; just a personal preference for single coils. One thing about them though, guys that like 'em really like 'em. And the are very consistently what they are. Whereas Les Pauls and SG's coming out of the factory these days have errors in the finish almost every time, much less interesting appearance, and are extremely inconsistent tonally. And I agree totally with you on the big box retailer vs. Mom and Pop issue- but that is the way things are going, and if the Mom and Pops try to compete directly with these guys they will get creamed. There are lots of small shops, though, that are doing quite well by NOT going directly against these guys. Midtown Music in Atlanta is a good example, carrying only quality used instruments, very high end new stuff (Fender custom shop teles and Strats) and boutique amps and effects that the big guys can't be bothered with. |
|
Kenny Drake Member From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA |
posted 26 September 2005 10:46 AM
profile
It's not all about litigation. John Paganoni is a close friend and co-worker of mine. He alone makes some of the finest mandolins around and Doyle Lawson is one of his more famous customers. There are only about 44 Paganoni mandolins and all of them are fashioned after the Gibson F5. (google "John Paganoni") Many think his work is far superior to that of Gibson, and years ago John got an exclusive written permission from Gibson to manufacture F5's, so long as he doesn't use the Gibson name or logo. John says he asked Gibson not to use his name on their instruments either. FWIW |
|
Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA |
posted 26 September 2005 02:31 PM
profile
Kenny, you're right about the Pagononi's! GREAT mandolins. The last couple of times I've seen and talked to Doyle, though, he was playing a Gibson "Doyle Lawson" mandolin. There was a guy in Georgia who was building "Lloyd Loar" F-5's, down to the Gibson logo, and Loar-signed label! They were awesome mandolins, and the guy also built mandolins under his own name, but he got a threatening letter from Gibson, and the "Loars" stopped---before I got one  . |
|
Kenny Drake Member From: Leesburg, Virginia, USA |
posted 27 September 2005 12:19 PM
profile
Steve, et al; I spoke with John Paganoni today. He's had permission from Gibson to build F5's since 1970. He's built a total of 49 Paganoni Mandolins but hasn't built one in three years. Recently two of his mandolins changed hands on the market, selling for $15k and $17.5k. Doyle Lawson owns four, and the good news is that he may begin building again early next year. He's got a few roughed out backs, tops and necks waiting to become mandolins. Contact Doyle if you'd like to own one but be prepared to wait. Also, among his personal instruments is a mint 1923 LL, which is a "July 9" just like Monroe's. A rare and valuable bird indeed. |
This topic is 2 pages long: 1 2 All times are Pacific (US) | next newest topic | next oldest topic |
 |
|
Contact Us | The Pedal Steel Pages
Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.
Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46