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  Faith Hill - Tim McGraw...country?

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Author Topic:   Faith Hill - Tim McGraw...country?
Kirk Hamre
Member

From: Birmingham, Alabama

posted 02 November 2005 08:29 AM     profile     
I just listened to "Like we never loved at all" single...this is country?...sounds like pure Pop to me. "Mississippi Girl"...does anyone remember Bob McDill, he wrote a song in 1980 called "Song of the South", Alabama recorded it. "Mississippi Girl sounds like a "Song of the South" rip-off to me...anyone agree? Oh and lastly, Janis Joplin would be devastated to hear Faith's pop-ditty verson of "Piece of my heart"...what happened to Nashville...country capital of the world? All I hear is pop-garbage out of that place. Where are the up and coming George Jones, Merle Haggard, Gene Watson, Waylon Jennings, Mel Street, Charley Pride, David Allan Coe, John Anderson, Moe Bandy, etc. musicians of today???
Oh, and another thing Nashville, dump all those stupid videos you produce, you waste time, intellect, and money. What happened to real musicians, playing real music, with real instruments??? The video has become the primary art while the music is just some secondary exercise that is added later to round-out the video.
I just had to get this off my chest...the whole thing really infuriates me. Young listeners today are really getting riped-off. I try and introduce real music to young people as much as I can...they're certainly not going to hear it on radio or any of these fraudulent country TV channles.
Tony Prior
Member

From: Charlotte NC

posted 02 November 2005 08:37 AM     profile     
I would say that it is a serious attempt to be labled as a COUNTRY STAR by playing POP songs.

No different than Wynonna playing the Opry this past weekend..

Her Opry appearance was not even a good POP set..

Her set did not, in my view, even come close to blending with the rest of the show....

Me, I personally think she is talented, a fine singer..but has totally lost her way..

But I also think she believes she is more popular than she actually is...

Faith and Tim...

they can pretty much do whatever they want..


for now...probably a few more years...

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 02 November 2005 09:12 AM     profile     
Kirk, I'm glad you got that off your chest, and you have lots of company here on the Forum. But you're stuck in time. In the '30s, country music was Jimmy Rogers, the Carter Family, and Uncle Dave Macon. In the '60s it was George and Tammy - completely different sounds. Country music is not just the music you remember from your youth. For everybody else, including historians, the press and the market place, country music is what is made in Nashville, bought by country music fans, covered in country music magazines, and played on country music stations. Today it is Tim and Faith. Yeah, it's pretty much modern pop-rock, sung with southern accents (more or less). But they don't play it on the rock and hip-hop stations, because everyone but old country fans like you and me instantly recognize it as country. If I have the local pop-country station playing when my teenage girls get in the car, they recognize a Nashville product in three notes and change the station to rock or hip-hop. It doesn't matter to them if it is Tim and Faith, Kenny Chesney, Grandpa Jones, or George Jones - it's all country to them.

You don't have to like it, but you can't say everything pre-'70s is country, and everything after that is not. There are many eras in country music. But to everybody else country music is always what is made in Nashville and played on country stations.

I understand what you are saying, and I respect your preferences (and mostly agree with them probably). But all you are really saying is that you like the older styles of country music, and don't like the latest style. It is great to try to show young people what they are missing in the old stuff. But if your attitude is that the stuff from your youth was the greatest, and their stuff today is "garbage," you are being patronizing to them, and they will recognize it and be turned off.

As for Janis Joplin, she was a southern rocker. I think she would have loved Faith's rocking country version of Piece of My Heart with Paul Franklin tearing it up on pedal steel. It's damn good music (the best thing Faith ever did). So was Janis' original version.

Bob Smith
Member

From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA

posted 02 November 2005 09:14 AM     profile     
Im sure everybody here knows by my posts on this forum, that I enjoy alot of the current country radio stuff. I think its full of great guitar and steel playing.(i never listen much to song lyrics) I doubt, if anybody here, wants to start insulting the guys that play their instruments on most of these tunes.How about the new Joe Nichols song, " Tequila Makes Her Clothes Fall Off", does that qualify as a "real' country tune?I t sounds like one to me. I wonder too ,where Wy Judd fits in . think she might appeal to the christian end of the scene?
Theresa Galbraith
Member

From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

posted 02 November 2005 09:20 AM     profile     
"Piece Of MY Heart" sounds country to my ears. I prefer Faith's singing over Janis Joplin's any day.

Kirk, I agree Faith's new cd is more pop than country. Atleast, she uses steel!

[This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 02 November 2005 at 09:21 AM.]

Kirk Hamre
Member

From: Birmingham, Alabama

posted 02 November 2005 09:32 AM     profile     
Yes, Paul Franklin's steel work is first class. Unfortunately, if the steel guitar was removed from these songs, there would be very little recognizable country flavor...all you would have left is pop. I recognize there is a huge market for pop music in this country and the average listener is not very discriminating. I guess I'm a tough sell. I just wish they would call it pop and not country.
Chris Forbes
Member

From: Beltsville, MD, USA

posted 02 November 2005 10:42 AM     profile     
Wynonna Judd fitting in on the Christian end? What about her DWI? I think that wouldn't endear her too much to the Christian crowd (of course, the way she sang before that world series game wouldn't endear her to any fan of good singing, ugh!).
Theresa Galbraith
Member

From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

posted 02 November 2005 11:05 AM     profile     
You guys are tough.
Charles Davidson
Member

From: Alabama, USA

posted 02 November 2005 09:36 PM     profile     
As my favorite Dale Watson song states[Country My Ass]He nailed it,no doubt about it!!!!
Craig A Davidson
Member

From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA

posted 03 November 2005 03:48 AM     profile     
Hey Chris, God forgives you know. That's how it is with Wynonna. One DWI won't send you to Hell.
Erv Niehaus
Member

From: Litchfield, MN, USA

posted 03 November 2005 07:15 AM     profile     
My God is even big enough to forgive Jimmy
Swaggart. In fact, I am in the process of tabbing out his first recorded song, "God Took Away My Yesterdays". The only place I could find the music was in one of his song books. Bless his little heart!
Erv
Chris Forbes
Member

From: Beltsville, MD, USA

posted 03 November 2005 10:55 AM     profile     
Craig, I know that God forgives, but what about the hypocrites that walk the earth with us? Will they be as quick to forgive? (and Lord knows I'm not trying to say I'm perfect, I'm faaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaar from it!!)

[This message was edited by Chris Forbes on 03 November 2005 at 10:56 AM.]

Keith Cordell
Member

From: Atlanta

posted 03 November 2005 11:11 AM     profile     
Yikes, Theresa... Faith Hill over Janis? I gotta stay out of the music section.
Kirk Hamre
Member

From: Birmingham, Alabama

posted 03 November 2005 11:23 AM     profile     
Yikes is right...the Faith Hill version of "Piece of my heart" has all the soul surgically removed. Probably not her fault, just another arrangement the record company manufactured for her. I heard in an interview that Faith had never heard Janis sing the song prior to Faith recording it.
Theresa Galbraith
Member

From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

posted 03 November 2005 02:01 PM     profile     
Yes, Faith over Janis any day!
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 03 November 2005 02:47 PM     profile     
Well I don't think we have to try to rank Janis and Faith and their respective backup musicians. They did completely different versions of the song. Janis had soul, but voice? And Big Brother and the Holding Company today would be considered a decent garage jam band, but not that special. The Piece of My Heart album was a classic for its guts and originality, not its outstanding musicianship. But Faith and her version is all pro. Like Dolly, you can get distracted by her looks if you want to, but she has pipes. Yes, I've also read the story that she had never heard the original. All the more credit to her performance. And the pickers on her s**t kickin' version of Piece of My Heart are the kind of seasoned pros that John Sebastian took his hat off to in Nashville Cats. Yes their version is way slicker than Janis and Big Brother, but that also makes it thrilling in a different way. I wish Faith would do more of that kind of stuff, and less of the overly dramatic ballads.
Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 03 November 2005 03:54 PM     profile     
Faith Hill couldn't carry Janis's Southern Comfort bottle. Not even in the same class artisticly. Janis would eat her for lunch.
Theresa Galbraith
Member

From: Goodlettsville,Tn. USA

posted 03 November 2005 04:03 PM     profile     
David,
I too wish Faith would do more of that kind of stuff.


I'm laughing out loud Kevin.

[This message was edited by Theresa Galbraith on 03 November 2005 at 04:04 PM.]

Mike Winter
Member

From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA

posted 03 November 2005 04:25 PM     profile     
Faith's better lookin' though.
Mark Eaton
Member

From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA

posted 03 November 2005 04:27 PM     profile     
Mike-whether you realize it or not-you are the master of understatement.

------------------
Mark

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 03 November 2005 10:00 PM     profile     
How 'bout Janis and Faith doing a duet? Mutt and Jeff. And how 'bout Paul Franklin sitting in with Big Brother and the Holding Company. Someday in Heaven.
Charlie McDonald
Member

From: Lubbock, Texas, USA

posted 04 November 2005 03:39 AM     profile     
No kidding, Theresa. Tough crowd. Glad I don't play country; couldn't stand the bloodshed.
Ron Sodos
Member

From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA

posted 04 November 2005 02:41 PM     profile     
Lets face it the whole country music industry has gone down the tubes. Personally I would like to take Tim McGraws leather hat and shove it up Faith Hills.........@#%&*
Lee Baucum
Member

From: McAllen, Texas (Extreme South) - The Final Frontier

posted 04 November 2005 03:02 PM     profile     
Sorry for the off-topic interruption, but up at the top of this topic, Bob McDill's name was mentioned. He's written bunches and bunches of hit songs.

Click Here

Bob Carlucci
Member

From: Candor, New York, USA

posted 05 November 2005 04:43 AM     profile     
Quote :Personally I would like to take Tim McGraws leather hat and shove it up Faith Hills.........@#%&*

Wow.. is that legal in Nashville?...

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 05 November 2005 04:16 PM     profile     
Just for some perspective, here's yesterday's music news from Musician's Friend:

quote:
1957, Jerry Lee Lewis' single "Great Balls of Fire" is released on Sun Records ... it will be his highest-charting hit, reaching second place on the pop chart, third on the R&B chart, and number one on the Country and Western chart ... it shares the top five of all three charts with the Killer's previous single "Whole Lot Of Shakin' Going On" ... even though "Fire" outpaces it on the charts, "Shakin'" sells more records ... both tunes spend time at first place on the Country and Western chart

The idea that "real country music" only consists of ballads and shuffles, with no rockin', is beyond quaint.

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 05 November 2005 at 04:16 PM.]

Dale Bessant
Member

From: Gatineau, Quebec, Canada

posted 05 November 2005 04:47 PM     profile     
Well I'm happy they are making a great living from music (Iwish I was) but being a traditionalist I dont have any of their music in the house.....
Bob Smith
Member

From: Allentown, New Jersey, USA

posted 05 November 2005 05:18 PM     profile     
Why doesnt this topic get closed . Pretty sorry, sick and disgusting to say the least. I hope no ones daughter has to read this rotten garbage.
Joe Casey
Member

From: Weeki Wachee .Springs FL (population.9)

posted 06 November 2005 07:31 AM     profile     
Is anything today the same as it was 20 or 10 years ago? Even during our turn in the so called barrel we had to keep up with the times then and all the changes to stay popular and working.What works today would not have worked during our era. And what worked for us will not float the boat now. There are still great country music fans to support what was. But not enough to over power what is. Enjoy and support whatever comes along now that pleases you,and allow the fact someone enjoys buying also what pleases them. Recently Martina released a Country CD that is as the name states "Timeless".Marketing is watching the sales... If one wants to make a statement heres one that can be made by opening the wallet. Country music at one time had the 30 year old and up crowd. Now the target is the buying age which is teens and up. Kids at one time would smirk at the word "Country". Now they are into it and remember they will get old too and change as all must.

------------------
Smiley 23-9 Crank&pull&push pro model Deluxe with auto voice tuner and string changer.500ft.roll.

Dave Mudgett
Member

From: Central Pennsylvania, USA

posted 06 November 2005 08:18 AM     profile     
We've been around and around this topic before. I'm not a big fan, to say the least, and it's not what I call country music. But I'd rather not take generic pot shots.

Apropos "Piece of my Heart", my issue with Faith's version is that the feel and vocal delivery just don't match the lyrics. When I hear someone say "take another little piece of my heart, now baby", I don't expect them to sound happy and upbeat about it, and the vocal delivery here screams "lightweight", to me. The band can have all the chops in the world, and it won't fix that. Janis' vocal delivery and Big Brother's screaming-guitar approach fits much better, to me.

The fact that Big Brother was not, technically, a great band is beside the point. That was well recognized back then, and is the reason they got ditched. Personally, I always felt that was one of Janis' downfalls, and numerous bios have argued this line - that she personally needed the cameraderie and musical/emotional support of a band like this, rather than a band of hired guns. I was at her last public show at Harvard Stadium - the band was great and so was she - but it did sound more like a singer with hired guns - and I missed the older style. Another in a long line of demonstrations that, to me, music is not primarily about chops, but emotion.

Kevin Hatton
Member

From: Amherst, N.Y.

posted 06 November 2005 07:12 PM     profile     
Wow Dave,Right on! You hit it right on the head. When Janis was singing you felt the pain through the emotion. I whole heartidly agree with you about the Big brother band. I think that their rawness was exactly what Janis needed behind her. They reeked with emotion and feel behind Janis. After they were ditched she sounded "New York". Watch Janis sing "Cry baby" in the movie "Festival Express". Faith Hill would never have a clue. Janis LIVED it though alcohol, heroin, pain, and camraderie, and when she let loose on stage you could feel it in your heart. It was like a panther being let out of its cage. Thats a legend.

[This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 06 November 2005 at 07:13 PM.]

Dave Mudgett
Member

From: Central Pennsylvania, USA

posted 06 November 2005 07:34 PM     profile     
quote:
It was like a panther being let out of its cage.

Kevin, you're right about that. I saw her pre- and post- Big Brother. Either way, she was a sight to behold. Channeling Bessie Smith, Big Mama Thornton, and Koko Taylor. I was right up close both times - she blew my head off.

I was pretty surprised a modern-country-style singer would try to do a major-league cover of "Piece of My Heart". I suppose if it had been a real "heart" singer, it might have worked. I think it could be done effectively by someone with a major quaver to their voice - perhaps Patty Loveless or somebody like that - as a slow country burner. Just my opinion. But hey, Faith and her producers went to the bank with that tune - who am I to argue?

Bob Carlucci
Member

From: Candor, New York, USA

posted 06 November 2005 10:13 PM     profile     
I like Faiths version better ONLY... ONLY because of of Pauls great steel work... other wise it was a lightweight and If Faith LOOKED like Janice, it never would have even been played.... bob
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 06 November 2005 10:32 PM     profile     
Well, I heard Janis sing live back in the day. My point was not to compare Faith in any way to that. She did a completely different version. She never even heard the original. My point was simply that Faith did a damn good version - one of the best things she ever did, and Paul Franklin's steel work was a big part of it. When I first heard it on the radio, I thought, "What a great new version of that great old song." I loved it. It never occurred to me to belittle Faith and Paul by comparing them to Janis and Big Brother. And it never occurred to me that this was in any way worse than rockin' country songs in the past, or that it was in any way unworthy of being called country music. Sorry I can't work up more negativity, but hey, life is short. You take your pleasures where you may.
Charles French
Member

From: Ms.

posted 07 November 2005 06:24 AM     profile     
quote:
I prefer Faith's singing over Janis Joplin's any day.

I rest my case! (previously stated tastelessly)

quote:
Yes, Paul Franklin's steel work is first class. Unfortunately, if the steel guitar was removed from these songs, there would be very little recognizable country flavor...all you would have left is pop.

Kirk, many feel if a recording has a top notch steel player or any revered player that all is well. I completely agree with you that Mr. Franklin is first class. He's as good as it gets! I could probably get any top session player in the world to play on my recording if I dusted dem good enough. Sure nuff the band would sound great altho the same could not apply to me.

quote:
When I hear someone say "take another little piece of my heart, now baby", I don't expect them to sound happy and upbeat about it, and the vocal delivery here screams "lightweight", to me. The band can have all the chops in the world, and it won't fix that. Janis' vocal delivery and Big Brother's screaming-guitar approach fits much better, to me.

Dave, I was trying to convey these sentiments above. You just said it a lot better!!!

quote:
I like Faiths version better ONLY... ONLY because of of Pauls great steel work... other wise it was a lightweight

See, I told ya so!

quote:
It never occurred to me to belittle Faith and Paul by comparing them to Janis and Big Brother

Leave Paul out of this. You won't find a remark that belittles Paul on this planet. If you find one, just point me in their direction. And when my brother gets off work, he'll get what's he's got coming.

SIDEBAR--> Ya'll ever noticed that every dance band in the world does a lame A$$ version of "I Feel Good"

Funny, you never hear any of them attempt "Cold Sweat"

Altho I would love to hear Faith's version!

quote:
David, I too wish Faith would do more of that kind of stuff

Now that's Great!

P.S. I've never even heard Faith's version of this song.

But then I wouldn't have had to hear Pat Boone doing "Tutti-Frutti" either!

Let's see, hmmmm Pat Boone or Little Richard? Don't make me choose.

[This message was edited by Charles French on 07 November 2005 at 06:38 AM.]

[This message was edited by Charles French on 08 November 2005 at 04:40 AM.]

Dave Mudgett
Member

From: Central Pennsylvania, USA

posted 07 November 2005 07:13 AM     profile     
When someone does a cover of a tune that is so well known and revered in another style of music, comparisons are just inevitable. It is not belittling anybody to make the obvious comparison in vocal delivery. The subject came up as a very positive comparison. Of course, one opinion deserves another.

In general, I didn't saying anything against Faith, and certainly not against the pickers on her recordings - they are some of the world's finest. I agree that the steel playing on "Piece of My Heart" is killer. Faith has a good voice, but I had issues with her vocal delivery on this particular tune and explained why. That was my immediate gut reaction the very first time I heard the tune. For steel lovers, a great steel ride can sometimes save a tune with other issues, but I just couldn't get past the vocal delivery here.

I do agree that generic "Faith and Tim" bashing is pointless. There has always been good and bad music in any style. If we always insist to ourselves that a pointed negative comment be accompanied by a straightforward explanation of why, I think this kind of discussion would be elevated.

Edited to add:

quote:
Let's see, hmmmm Pat Boone or Little Richard? Don't make me choose.

Yup.

[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 07 November 2005 at 07:16 AM.]

David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 07 November 2005 08:41 AM     profile     
Charles F., here's the thread that started this Faith Hill/modern country bashing. http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum15/HTML/010614.html There's a link there where you can hear her and Paul F. doing "Piece of My Heart" as a country rocker (warning: beautiful woman singing and dancing in stupid video, and rocking modern country music - may not be appropriate for older viewers ).

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 07 November 2005 at 08:43 AM.]

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