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 The Steel Guitar Forum
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 John McLaughlin on Tonight Show, 1985
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| Author | Topic: John McLaughlin on Tonight Show, 1985 |
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Mike Winter Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA |
posted 10 April 2006 11:01 PM
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Wow... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tE1uzND-iDo&search=mclaughlin ------------------ |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 10 April 2006 11:51 PM
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One of my favorite guitarists. Thanks Mike! |
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Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 11 April 2006 12:04 AM
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Classic example of wasted energy without taste or dynamics. He was using the wrong instrument playing with a big band. He should have been using an electric archtop instead of an acoustic. If you're going balls out with a big band you don't do it on an acoustic guitar. It sounded weak and non arranged. He's lucky George Bensen wasn't there. George would have smoked his a$$. |
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Billy Wilson Member From: El Cerrito, California, USA |
posted 11 April 2006 01:07 AM
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Gotta go with Kevin on this one. That was just not a good match up. Maybe he was thinking he'd try something completly different. Sometimes that works and sometimes it doesn't. Thanks for posting the clip, I love being able to see so many filmed performances now that Youtube is making it all possible. |
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Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 11 April 2006 02:15 AM
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well..my take.. this is John M.. If anything the band arangement was overkill for his style.. He is the guest..his style is what it is.. This is JM..this is what he does..and does well... I saw John a few times and this is actually one of the first times I eer heard him play a COVER tune.. regardless, the man is an amazing musician, especially for the period that he gained recognition... A man walks out from behind a curtain and just sits down and plays Cherokee...live on camera.. no wires, no amp, no nuthin'... ------------------ |
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Stephen Gambrell Member From: Ware Shoals, South Carolina, USA |
posted 11 April 2006 02:34 AM
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INCREDIBLE!!! John McLaughlin was THE guitar hero when I was a kid, and that acoustic guitar demonstrates his superb technique. Thanks for posting this clip! |
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Bill Hatcher Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA |
posted 11 April 2006 03:52 AM
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I remember seeing it live. The quality of the video is a bit unclear so I cannot tell if he is playing one of his Abraham Wechter (sp?) guitars or not. In as much as the negative comment that was made, you have to take under consideration that during this period, JM was using this kind of guitar for his concerts and naturally this is what he would have used. As for his taste, and dynamics, he is sitting in front of a raging big band and you expect him to have some manner of dynamics!! After not having heard this for 20 years, I am rather impressed by what he did play. Classic JM with a nice tinge of Django using the acoustic guitar. I enjoyed watching it. |
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David Mason Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA |
posted 11 April 2006 07:47 AM
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He's always been a maverick when it comes to tone - I remember being blown out of my skull by both the first Mahavishnu Orchestra and the first incarnation of Shakti, and nobody had ever played those kinds of licks with those kinds of tones before. It does strike me that that same, exact performance with the flattop would have been better suited to an acoustic quintet or "Hot Club" type of setting - but that's not what the Tonight Show band was. Criticizing anything McLaughlin does is, to me, like criticizing Paganini or Bhattacharya or something - go ahead, when you can go do it better, have a nice time with it, I'll buy your CD for sure. |
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Bill McCloskey Member From: |
posted 11 April 2006 08:15 AM
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I love JM but I got to go with the negative comments on this one. This was a complete mismatch in every sense of the word. Wrong instrument, wrong arrangement, wrong song. What amazed me was the fact that John couldn't swing. |
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Mark Metdker Member From: North Central Texas, USA |
posted 11 April 2006 08:56 AM
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Sorry boys, but I can't badmouth my childhood hero. I remember the first time I heard one of his records. I was in the 8th grade...I think. Anyway, I went home and threw out all my Doobie Brothers and Foghat records. I finally heard what a REAL guitarist sounds like. the guy changed everything for me. Maybe he didn;t do well here, but he plays things that hardly anyone else can duplicate. And has been doing it for over 30 years. ------------------ |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 11 April 2006 01:10 PM
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It's a shame some of you believe you have to criticize another musician, a legendary one at that, even for not playing the type of guitar you think he should play, the way you think he should have, the way you would have.... if you could, but just like all critics you can't play anywhere near that level yourself, if at all. I guess some people just never figure out that the best musicians play what they feel. Not what Joe Blow thinks they should play. [This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 11 April 2006 at 02:27 PM.] |
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David Mason Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA |
posted 11 April 2006 01:32 PM
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Did you notice how all the musicians in the Tonight Show band dropped their horns and started applauding McLaughlin too? Ignorant hacks, I guess....  |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 11 April 2006 02:29 PM
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Probably just felt sorry for him...  |
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Bill Hatcher Member From: Atlanta Ga. USA |
posted 11 April 2006 02:44 PM
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Classy move. He invades their territory. Instead of making them play Inner Mounting Flame and playing a double neck in a white flowing robe through a bunch of Marshall stacks, he plays a jazz standard one acoustic and lets them roar along. THAT is why they applauded--respect for him and his playing. |
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Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 11 April 2006 03:23 PM
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I guess I am in the scratching head mode of why a musician would diss this musicians performance.. It's not like JM had weekly TV spots or anything... sure it was an OFF arrangement..He looked squeaky clean dapper...he played UNPLUGGED before it actually became famous to play UNPLUGGED... He played an arrangement which was probably a quick and dirty from Doc... He played his stuff inside the Doc arrangment... He played LIVE.. it was TV It was LIVE Tv.. it was JM on Johnny Carson ! Although I would have to submit that this performance does come in a close 2nd to the Great Flyzini ------------------ |
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Jim Phelps Member From: just out of Mexico City |
posted 11 April 2006 03:46 PM
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quote: Very simple, Tony. Because there are a lot of people who majored in music at college, or play weekends in a bar band, or have a son who's "almost famous" and they believe that qualifies them to make judgements where they really have no business whatsoever even opening their mouths. And they wonder why the big guys don't post here. |
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Kevin Hatton Member From: Amherst, N.Y. |
posted 11 April 2006 04:15 PM
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The forum exists for people's opinions. Someone put a clip up and we gave opinions. I'll be playing in front of 5000 people a few times this summer along side national acts. I earned it. I think I have a right to a musical opinion. You may not agree. I respect everyone elses here also. I prefer BB King over JM. Technical prowess does not equal tasteful playing. [This message was edited by Kevin Hatton on 11 April 2006 at 04:17 PM.] |
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Michael Haselman Member From: St. Paul Park, Minnesota, USA |
posted 11 April 2006 06:35 PM
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Well, this is kind of sacred ground for me. I remember the first time I heard "Inner Mounting Flame" like I remember where I was when JFK got shot. When you're talking about JM you've GOT to consider the whole spectrum--from "Jack Johnson," "In A Silent Way," to his compositions. If you can listen to "Dance Of The Maya" and not be blown away just by the composition, let alone the playing...I kinda feel sorry for you. ------------------ |
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Bill McCloskey Member From: |
posted 11 April 2006 07:09 PM
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"It's a shame some of you believe you have to criticize another musician" Right. How dare we have an opinion! |
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Frank Estes Member From: Huntsville, AL |
posted 11 April 2006 08:46 PM
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Very Impressive. I never heard of the guy before (only 43, grew listening to gospel). The band got on my nerves. Tony has it right--the band overplayed. They forgot that they were not the ones being featured. |
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Tony Prior Member From: Charlotte NC |
posted 12 April 2006 03:44 AM
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well I'll be playing in front of probably 25,000 in a few weeks. Maybe more.... Speed Weeks, Downtown Charlotte, the week before the Coca Cola 500...Late Saturday afternoon set... This is one of 3 or 4 ALL CITY Music Fests here in Charlotte...An entire section of downtown is shut down for a full fledged street festival, and yes..with Beer... We are on one of the Main stages for a 1 hour set... Not sure who the headliner is yet but I know it ain't us ! I don't know if I earned this or not.. I'll have to get back to you on that one... but I sure hope I don't break a 3rd string ! I guess for those that are not familiar with JM he may be over the top... This little clip was basically a poor attempt to get a TV band to groove with a one of the most genious fusion/jazz..whatever..guitar players on the planet... I was just happy to see it... Kinda like when we went to the very first Stones show that they played in the USA, in NYC... We still have no clue what the first 2 or 3 songs were, but we were sure glad to be there with the screaming mob ! and.. I guess I'll be grateful if those that are quick to jump all over JM..please don't come to see me play...I won't be able to handle the thread that follows... oh..what the heck..come anyway...I'll buy the Beer... t [This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 April 2006 at 04:13 AM.] |
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Rick McDuffie Member From: Smithfield, North Carolina, USA |
posted 12 April 2006 04:03 AM
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Too many notes for my taste, but you can't deny his superb technical and musical ability. But that's JM. If you don't like that, listen to Chet instead. I will. But what a band. Egad!! [This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 12 April 2006 at 04:04 AM.] |
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Marlin Smoot Member From: Atlanta,Georgia, USA |
posted 12 April 2006 07:41 AM
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It was great seeing Johnny Carson, sure miss the show. The Tonight Show band was a great band. You don't get to see many recorded live performances of JM so for me it was a treat. I only use to read about him in Guitar Player mag. |
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Mike Winter Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA |
posted 12 April 2006 08:17 AM
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Tony P -- I have arranged for a video crew to tape your every move. Not! Have fun at your gig.  I posted the clip. I love this Forum because of it's wide array of opinions. Opine on... ------------------ |
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Mark Eaton Member From: Windsor, Sonoma County, CA |
posted 12 April 2006 10:29 AM
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It was great that Johnny got him on there-Johnny was a huge jazz fan, and if memory serves, an amateur jazz drummer. Doc's boys certainly overplayed on this one-pretty weird when you hear how obvious it is. I think these Tonight Show type performances have always had to be taken with a grain of salt-as a musician, folks get about 4 minutes to strut their stuff before a national audience, and in this clip, McLaughlin gets to show off his left hand dexterity-which is pretty mind boggling- whether it "swings" or not-is probably immaterial to someone in Des Moines who may not even play an instrument, but likes a little bit of jazz or fusion with their burger. Sure-some big jazz writer with legitimate knowledge-like Nat Henthoff or Ralph J.Gleason, would have probably hammered this performance as much or more so than some of the folks here-but I looked at it as an opportunity for McLaughlin to show the world that his skills are pretty amazing. It's difficult enough for musicans to make a living, and jazz is one tough arena-so I can't blame the guy for going all out on the Tonight Show, in a display of showmanship. ------------------ |
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Drew Howard Member From: Mason, MI, U.S.A. |
posted 13 April 2006 03:13 PM
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It sounds like a college marching band backing up JM! Yeah, a bit of a mismatch in sound. How DID he mic that guitar? Wireless? Drew ------------------ |
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Rick Garrett Member From: Tyler, Texas |
posted 14 April 2006 05:16 AM
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I just watched the clip. Yeah I'm a greenhorn picker but I can type as good as anybody so here's my take like it or not I thought JM was awesome and would have sounded even better with just a standup bass and maybe one horn. The band played over him a little in volume. No question this guy's awesome. I would loved to have heard him playing by himself better. Rick |
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Barry Blackwood Member From: elk grove, CA |
posted 14 April 2006 08:47 AM
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I think, since you don't know for sure what's going thru JM's mind, that you should all stop second-guessing him. |
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Ted Lowe Jr Member From: Tennessee, USA |
posted 21 April 2006 09:53 PM
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Sort of off the subject, but did anybody ever hear the story banjo player Sonny Osborne has told about having to pay a kickback on their appearance fee to the musical director? Of course it would have be well worth it for the exposure...... I had a video tape of that JM performance, I thought it was smokin! |
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Mike Winter Member From: Oregon City, Oregon, USA |
posted 21 April 2006 10:03 PM
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My original post...I thought he played fantastic. Yes, it could've been set up better. The Tonight Show Band did overpower and overplay, but I don't think that was JM's fault. If you just take note of what and how he played, he was awesome. No doubt it would've been better had he been mic'd and the band downplayed, but all in all, I think his was a stellar performance. ------------------ [This message was edited by Mike Winter on 21 April 2006 at 10:04 PM.] |
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Doug Beaumier Member From: Northampton, MA |
posted 22 April 2006 01:56 PM
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I just watched the clip and I really enjoyed it! ... in spite of the overkill speedpicking. I saw John McLaughlin live with the Mahavishnu Orchestra way back in the early 1970s when I was a student at the University of Mass... up close and personal in a medium size room. He was wearing a long white robe and there were moments of silent prayer between songs, pretty freaky, but the music was insane! The McLaughlin I see on this video looks completely different, although the flash is still there. You have to respect a guy who can play like that on acoustic guitar, no amp, and blend with a full band with horns. He sounds good in spite of the poor quality of the recording. As far as the flashy speedpicking... it's good to be able to play like that when necessary, but too much of it is cold and sterile IMHO I'm reminded of Chet Atkin's(?) line: I wish I could play that fast... and if I could, I wouldn't.
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Darryl Hattenhauer Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA |
posted 22 April 2006 11:22 PM
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I sure wish I stunk like JM. As far as the powerful back-up goes, JM is one of the few who are so great they can let the band step out. And what a band they had then. The volume mismatch was a tech problem, not a musical one. This show was 21 years ago. 21 years before this tape, I'd stay up to see Ray Price, and some people wondered why they'd let a hick on the show, and others wondered why Ray would sell out. Some said Ray Charles sold out doing country. I wondered why Sinatra and Bennett didn't, and then heard Bennett do Hank and loved it. I have tapes of Ella and Nat Cole having fun with country. On the other hand, I can see where virtuosity isn't necessarily moving. I wish I stunk like Holdsworth and Johnson, but it isn't for me. Also, a lot of simple players do reach me. Hound Dog Taylor said, "I can't play worth beans, but I sure make it sound good." And Zappa said about Elmore, "He kept playing the same lick over and over, but I get the feeling he meant it." |
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Rick Schmidt Member From: Carlsbad, CA. USA |
posted 14 May 2006 01:51 PM
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did anybody save this video? The YouTube user removed it. I'd like a copy if at all possible. |
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