Particularly, archtop / jazz-guitars are getting very interesting to me...Currently trying to learn about:
Ibanez GB10/20/30/100/200 models
Guild X170/500/700
Old Epiphone Emperor
Gibson L4/5/50/S400's

Of course, my location isn't vintage music jazz guitar central, but perhaps anyone who's banged around of some of these different models can tell me what they like/dislike between different guitars in the list.

Basically the S400 was just too big!! It had the most spectacular sustain and the nicest woody tone to it.

The L50 is a smaller guitar like the L4. Very inconsistant sound from guitar to guitar. One will be ordinary and another might sound great. Unadorned.

The L5 is the best balance of size and tone and apointments. Can't go wrong with this guitar.

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EMMONS D10 10-10 profex 2 deltafex ne1000 pv1000, pv 31 bd eq, +

I've owned a bunch of archtops. My current main archtop is a Yamaha AEX 1500, often called the Martin Taylor model, since Martin played one for a long time. An earlier thread put up a link to this video of Martin playing one of these:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aa1zp6u1Sok&search=martin%20taylor

It's a mini-humbucker in the neck and a piezo bridge pickup, with a switching and tone control center on the side of the guitar. It's very versatile, and can go from traditional cool-jazz guitar tones in the neck humbucker alone to a very acoustic archtop type of tone by blending both pickups.

Other archtops I've owned in the last 20 years are

'84 Fender D'Aquisto - why did I sell it? I dunno - great guitar.

'90s Guild X-170 Manhattan - neck too small, otherwise a nice guitar.

'57 Gibson ES-350T - neck much too thin and short-scale, sounded amazing though. Same basic issue with Byrdland.

'37 Gibson ES-150T with Charlie Christian pickup - great sound, but limited upper register access - no cutaway.

'35 Gibson L7 - great if you want to do the Freddie Green thing in a swing orchestra. Same with old Epi Emperor, a friend had one for years.

'90s Heritage 575, basically an ES-175 style guitar - I prefer these to most post-60s ES-175 I have played. Great neck, great sound, priced reasonably - usually $1000-1400 for a nice used example.

Of course, Super 400s are cool, but I had a chance at one a couple of years ago, and I agree with Bill H.'s comment - just too big for me. L-5 is a great guitar, just very pricey, but great. I played an L-4C for a while with a DeArmond Rhythm Chief pickup - great sound. I prefer the L-5, but I'm too cheap to shell out. I'm also too cheap to fork over the dough for a '50s ES-175, the good ones. I don't care for 70s and 80s vintage ones. Some of the new ones are nice, good neck shape, great sound.

I've played several Ibanez George Benson models. Nice guitars, again I found the necks a bit small for me.

I wanted it as soon as I saw it (in Jim Marshall's Ealing music store in '61) even 'though it had been fitted with a Bigsby! I got the right tailpiece put back on and enjoyed this great guitar for years.

It WAS large! Eighteen inches across the lower bout. Now I'm no longer swayed by the fact that Scotty Moore had one (I was just a teenager ), my choice would be the Gibson L-5. This is surely the classic arch-top! Beautiful proportions and elegant appointments. I'm not one for 'signature' guitars, but the 'Wes Montgomery' model is consistently excellent.

They're not cheap, I know, but that's the next guitar on my 'want list'....

You're quite right, and, while the Gibson Humbuckers were developed in an attempt to solve this problem, arch top electrics are sometimes difficult to control at higher volume.

Remember that these Gibsons were trying to remain competitive in a 'new' market (the Switchmaster ES5 with its mass of knobs and three pick-ups comes to mind) and only did so because guitar players were hard to convince when it came to solid-body instruments. Fenders changed all that (hats off to those early country pickers who played out with Teles and Esquires!), and the first Les Pauls were Gibson's response to Leo's success.

Generally, players back then still wanted a traditional look, so they were happy to deal with the feed-back issue. Hank Garland did most of his sessions on his Byrdland Gibson, although a notable exception was when he borrowed Harold Bradley's Fender Jazzmaster for Elvis' 'Little Sister'. Notice also how hollow-body guitars have tended to get smaller (the George Benson Ibanez guitars) - a traditional look, but with a degree of compromise and, presumably, less feed-back.

Gretsch 'dealt' with it by offering those guitars with fake (painted on!) 'F' holes.

Gibson's 335, 345, and 355 guitars have a solid block running through the centre of the body - only the outer edges are hollow, so they're effectively a solid guitar. The 'F' holes are really cosmetic.

If I DO get that L-5, will it perform as well as my 'Lucille' (virtually a 'signature 355)? Probably not, which confirms that aesthetics still do, and probably always will, play a big part in selling guitars. I'll probably never take it out of the house, and will continue to cover gigs with my very excellent G&L ASAT Classic....

It should be noted that some of the most respected makers of arch tops today like Sadowsky and DiAngelico are making smaller guitars with as little as 14 or 15 inch bouts and a 2 or 2&1/2 inch depth. Since these guitars are always played with amplfication, there is no need for the big deep bodies.

This is my jazz guitar. It's a Raven RM 680
(Which unfortunately is no longer being made)

The lower bout is 16 inches, and the guitar is 2&3/4 inches deep. I feel that's the maximum size I'd ever want in a guitar.

Size does matter.

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[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 27 May 2006 at 11:51 AM.]

There is, of course, a difference in the acoustic properties of the electric arch-tops, or, at least, those with the controls and pick-ups actually set into the guitar's top. All that hardware has a considerable muting effect on the table, so these were even more of a compromise between a solid and a traditional arch-top. The best solution is the 'floating' pick-up attached to the sides of the fingerboard or incorporated into the pick-guard.

Im my opinion, there is a considerable difference in the performance of the laminated topped guitars (Switchmasters, 175s) next to the higher-end carved tops (L5s, S400s, 'Johnny Smith' models) - having the electrics cut into the body levels the playing field for all these instruments.

By the way, the Gibson model names were based on their (one time) price - an ES-175 retailed at $175, and the Super 400 was $400. The same applied to the J-45 and J-200 acoustics. Obviously this was a long time ago, but the relationship between the various models can still be appreciated.

I found out early on that I couldn't afford the sticker on a 400 or L-5 type Guild, Gretsch or Gibson, so I bought this one when I found it. It's a unique Samick and they only made these for a short time.

The amplified tone is on the dark side while the acoustic tone is what I would describe as "plunky"? Not full and robust like a flattop. A subdued almost stifled voice. I have played it acoustically through a mic as rhythm accompaniment and folks say it sounded great though.

It's still for sale BTW, only because I need the cash.

For now, I'm sticking with an old Kalamazoo Epi Sheraton with .012 flats. Beautiful guitar, bonafide jazz tone and no feedback. Best of all possible worlds for me!

Rick

[This message was edited by Rick McDuffie on 27 May 2006 at 11:55 AM.]

quote:

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Im my opinion, there is a considerable difference in the performance of the laminated topped guitars (Switchmasters, 175s) next to the higher-end carved tops (L5s, S400s, 'Johnny Smith' models) - having the electrics cut into the body levels the playing field for all these instruments.

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The Gibson Johnny Smith does not have the pickups or controls mounted into the body, all the rest mentioned do.

[This message was edited by Jim Phelps on 27 May 2006 at 01:53 PM.]

Here is the url for Roger Sadowsky's Jim Hall sognature guitar, which he and Maistro Hall co-designed.

http://www.sadowsky.com/guitars/hall_signature.html

Note that the guitar is 16 inches across, 2.75 inches deep, and the top is made out of a 5 ply laminate, and has the hardware mounted on it.

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[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 27 May 2006 at 02:28 PM.]

Johnny Smith settled on on 25" for his archtops. I think that is ideal.

'49 ES-5. I still have it, but am selling because I find I'm fighting it when I play. Great sound, but needs bigger hands than I have!

'74 L5 CES (Blonde). Sold it. Great player, great looker. Very strong fundemental, good for very clean jazz playing, much weaker for early swing/rockabilly styles.

'52 ES-295. Proper Scotty Moore sound! The best guitar I have. Looks a bit beat (had a crack in the side repaired), but I can play anything on it, and get from clean sounds to quite wicked really! Although it's basically a gold 175, the trapeze tailpiece solidifies the sound in some way and it's just brilliant. I love it.

'54ish Gretsch Constellation with a DeArmond Rhythm King. Surprisingly good. Needs a setup, but it's the equal of the lower end Gibsons, small enough to be comfortable, but large enough to have presence.

'57 Gretsch 6120. A good one, now sold. Played great after some proper work on the fret, could get a really smooth big sound to a cutting Tele-killing bite if needed. That DeArmond sound is the business with a Bassman.

'56 Gretsch DuoJet. Everything the 6120 can do and more. Putting a fixed-arm Bigsby on it made a surprising difference, almose more than going from a regular tailpiece to the swing-arm Bigsby. I used this for almost everything until I got my custom Tele. Great with an Echoplex!

'74 Les Paul. Ugh. Why did I buy this? Swapped it for the Constellation. Sounded good but was so heavy.

Warmoth Tele. With Harmonic Designs Vintage Plus pickups, with a Strat middle added. The best is the 4-way switch to give a series-wired Tele neck/bridge combo. In this position it's like a Tele but BIGGER. Roll some tone control off and it's a jazzer! I asked for a baseball bat neck and very straight grain. Love it.

'61 Gretsch 6119. Good "starter" vintage Gretsch for the Rockabillies, but I found it a bit pointless.

'64 Strat. Swapped it with the 6119 for the ES-5. Yes, I made a mistake $$$-wise, but I never played it. I just couldn't get "my sound" out of it. Nice if you're a Hank Marvin clone, otherwise I'd rather have a reissue Jazzmaster.

Also played a few Super 400s (nice but too big and less character than the laminated top guitars when amplified), ES-350T (want a blonde one! Sell me yours!), Gretsch Country Clubs (posh 6120 with no trem. A bit characterless for me), White Falcons (the early DeArmond ones - Brian Setzers was nice, but the ex-Elvis Costello one was better.. Good guitars but a bit like having a diamond in your gold front tooth if you know what I mean). And so on.....

I'd still have an acoustic L5 for recording and big band though...

The newer made Epiphone Zephyr Regents are going for $300ish on Ebay, and are made in the old style with no inner bracing, just a nice (laminate) wood shell holding the PUs, V/T controls and pickguard mounts, nothing else to kill the sound.

I've never played another jazz box to enable a comparison, but I can't find anything wrong.

Sounds, plays and looks great.

It's been borrowed for gigs and always comes back with accolades.

The Ibanex was certainly a fine guitar, but there is something very special about those Baldwin country gents.

Some people feel they are the best guitars ever made under the name Gretsch, even though Gretsch didn't really make them.

Bill, I've played the Artcores, and if I didn't already have the Raven I'd buy one.

With the prices of American made guitars, and even guitars made overseas by American owned companies, going through the roof, these relatively inexpensive but thoroughly decent instruments are a godsend.

That 'Johnny Smith' error was a 'pre-morning coffee' typo. I had nine hours rehearsal yesterday, and was still 'fried' this morning!

RR

This one is semi-hollow, like a 335

This one is fully hollow.

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[This message was edited by Mike Perlowin on 28 May 2006 at 05:21 PM.]

These guitars are also under 2 nches deep, making them more resistant to feedback than the standard jazz guitar, while retaining that traditional hollow body souns.

Ravenwest also makes a semi-hollow with the same body design.