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 Ray Price harmony singer
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Gary Atkinson Member From: Arkansas, USA |
posted 23 August 2006 11:59 AM
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I'm sittin' here listening to old Ray Price records from back in the 6o's,I had forgot how great they sound.Who sang harmony with him back then and did he sing some of it himself.I allways wanted to know that. Gary Atkinson |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 23 August 2006 12:14 PM
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His '50s hits had Van Howard. Then I think he had Darrel McCall, Johnny Paycheck, Johnny Bush, and he even did some himself, I believe. |
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Dale Bennett Member From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA |
posted 23 August 2006 01:58 PM
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Ray Sanders used to do harmony with Price also. Sanders produced a little record on me in the early 60's when we were in Ca. db |
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Keith Hilton Member From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721 |
posted 23 August 2006 04:47 PM
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Gary, I hope you notice how loud the bass is. I think Ray sang from the bass guitar. On many records the level of the bass is above the level of the steel guitar and everything else. It is really tragic that all drummers think they can play Ray Price stuff, but 99.99999% can't cut it when it comes to playing Ray Price. For some reason the Ray Price style bass has become a lost art. 99.999995 of bass players think they can play it and they can't. Blondie Calderon did harmony on the road with Ray. The most important part of Ray Price music is the bass and drums. If those two instruments are not right, the rest of the band, and the singer, is hung out to dry. I have got to where I hate playing Ray Price shuffles on these steel guitar shows, because the bass and drums are never right. Maybe I should not of said that, but there are many drummers and bass players who need to go back and listen to old Ray Price records and then practice. Almost all drummers and bass players think Ray Price music is easy. It is not, it is very difficult. If the bass and drums are not right, the steel can sound like a can of worms. |
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Donny Hinson Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A. |
posted 23 August 2006 05:51 PM
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quote: It's not easy, but it is simple, and that's the problem. The rhythm section has to understand that the "sound" is in it's simplicity. Unfortunately, getting a bass player and a drummer to keep the volume low and play simple these days is nearly impossible. Also, to complete the '60s Price "rhythm sound", you need that real subtle upbeat rhythm from a piano or a guitar...also hard to come by nowadays. |
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Steve Hinson Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA |
posted 23 August 2006 06:00 PM
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...NO kick drum or cymbals on those records...just brushes on the snare. ------------------ |
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Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX |
posted 23 August 2006 06:45 PM
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Keith is absolutely right in his assessment of the bass/drums in Ray Price style music. That sound depends on a non-percussive bass, preferably upright acoustic, and very simple drums. Ray's recordings only had (I think) snare drum and high hat played with a stick and a brush. If a bass drum is used, only the 1st and 3rd beats should be struck. Nothing stifles a shuffles like an overly dominant kick drum on every beat. The bass handles the 4/4 walking notes, the drums handle the back beat. Anything else is overdoing it. IMHO... Listen to Jim Loessberg and Jake Hooker on Bobby Flores' new album if the Ray Price recordings are not available. Jim and Jake are puttin' it down, and y'all's rhythm sections need to be pickin' up on it. ------------------ |
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Barry Blackwood Member From: elk grove, CA |
posted 23 August 2006 07:06 PM
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Back in the day, the ONLY record in my collection that was metronome-steady was the Black Album .... |
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Jim Hartley Member From: Little Mountain, South Carolina, USA |
posted 23 August 2006 07:46 PM
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Hey guys, how did we get from harmony singers to pickin' on us drummers? Just kiddin', I'm the first one to complain about drummers and bass players who don't get the feel. Keith and Herb, you are exactly right, simple is what it is all about. Actually, if you'll listen closely to alot of the old shuffles, the bass wasn't even playing 4/4. 2/4 with a tic-tac doing the 4/4. Over the years though, it has evolved, if that is the right term, to where almost everybody just jumps on 4/4 and off we go. Also, when some of these songs are done as instrumentals at the steel shows, it seems like a "bigger, more driving" sort of feel is desired. I like it like that OK, but personally, a brush and a rim shot does it for me. I could play that all day long. Boring? NEVER !!!!! Jim |
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Bobby Caldwell Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
posted 23 August 2006 09:06 PM
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Let's not forget Roger Miller who sang harmony with Ray for some time. Also Pete Wade, the great session guitar player who also sang with Ray. What great music these people made. I still listen to the Ray Price music alot and enjoy the sounds of the "BIG E", Jimmy Day and Jack Evins. The sound of a Tommy Jackson's fiddle will put goose bumbs on anybody who loves country music. This music is why I do what I do. Play music. Thanks to all of them for their talent and their abillity to inspire. I am glad I lived in a time to hear it. Bobby [This message was edited by Bobby Caldwell on 23 August 2006 at 09:08 PM.] |
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Jody Sanders Member From: Magnolia,Texas |
posted 23 August 2006 09:52 PM
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Ray Price had several different harmony singers thru the years on the road, After Van Howard left the band, I am told that Ray did the harmony on the records til he kinda changed his style (aka adding an orchestra and choral group to his recordings. It is true in this day and time, it is extremely hard to find a drummer and bass player that can play a shuffle as it was intended. Have agood friend whose name I won't mention as he was well known in the Texas music scene and still is, He never put a mic on the bass or the drums. He said he never heard a drummer or bass player that played at too low volume. Jody. [This message was edited by Jody Sanders on 23 August 2006 at 09:58 PM.] |
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Jim Bob Sedgwick Member From: Clinton, Missouri USA |
posted 23 August 2006 09:54 PM
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One other thing... In my opinion, most bands (amateur) try to play the shuffles too fast. They do not get in a groove and also wind up speeding. Ray Price music is hard to sing at Bluegrass speed. JMO Drummers need to learn to hit the offbeat on the very back edge, almost dragging but not. That's how the groove gets started, and curtails a lot of the speeding. Listen and Relax. Price music is not fast. Shuffles drive themselves they do not need to be pushed. Again JMO |
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Dale Bennett Member From: Oklahoma City, Oklahoma, USA |
posted 24 August 2006 09:32 AM
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Keith, you are right on. I don't know how I managed to do it but, I got to pick bass with Mr. Price from 70 till 72, Phil Baugh and I went to work for him at the same time. Julian Tharp was our steeler. anyway, Hugo Chambers was our drummer, Blondie would make us practice and practice till we got as right as we could. It was such a pleasure just get in such a layed back groove instead of trying to out do the other. It was pretty much that way no matter what size place we played. I remember one time after the show, Ray got the bus and said " boy's we did a pretty good job tonight, but, when I can't hear those people out there having a good time then you are too bleeping, loud". Needless to say the volume was down from then on. I even got to sing some harmony with him some. db |
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Herb Steiner Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX |
posted 24 August 2006 09:51 AM
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quote: LMAO, brother Jody! Hal Rugg told me he once put a band together for a steel guitar show... 17 pedal steels and a bass... but he got fired. Too much bass. ------------------ |
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Per Kammersgaard Member From: Sonderborg, Denmark |
posted 24 August 2006 10:11 AM
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Van Howard sang the harmony till feb. 58. This is info I have from The Bear Family Boxset. After that Ray did it himself. This was confirmed by Darrell McCall in a radiointerview I did with him some years ago. PK |
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Gary Atkinson Member From: Arkansas, USA |
posted 25 August 2006 04:47 PM
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I just got back home to read all of this very interesting information.I became a Ray Price fan the first time I heard Don't let the stars get in your eyes.I don't even remember how old I was.Keith Hilton and I have been in Branson doing another cd of all 4/4 shuffle songs with a new young lady named Luann Turner.Keep an eye on Keith's web site for more.Once again thanks for all of your help.Gary Atkinson |
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John Steele Member From: Renfrew, Ontario, Canada |
posted 26 August 2006 09:45 AM
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How about Charlie Harris ? -John |
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Bobby Caldwell Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA |
posted 26 August 2006 10:59 AM
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I forgot to tell everyone. Van Howard has a new CD out. Van sang harmony on the early Ray Price recordings and set the standard for those that followed. The Cd is wonderful. Some great classic country tunes. The "Big E" on steel and some great nashville session players. I got my copy at the ET record shop. Bobby |
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Keith Hilton Member From: 248 Laurel Road Ozark, Missouri 65721 |
posted 26 August 2006 08:12 PM
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Probably the best thing I heard at last years Steel Guitar Convention in St. Louis was Bobby Caldwell singing, "Another Bridge to Burn." |
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John Parker Member From: Newark, Arkansas, USA |
posted 28 August 2006 08:43 AM
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Gary, After listening to you sing "Staring At The Moon" I think you should sing harmony for Ray Price. One of these days when I can afford to spend some extra cash I want to get the CD that song is on because I've heard some really good comments about it. By the way, are you going to be playing anywhere near Batesville, Ar? I would like to come and say hello. ------------------ |
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Jason Odd Member From: Melbourne, Victoria, Australia |
posted 02 September 2006 10:17 AM
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hey, it's an official site: http://www.vanhoward.net/history.html |
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