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Author
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Topic: Volume Pedal Issues / Question
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Joe Herchel
unregistered
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posted 25 August 2000 11:06 AM
The rave reviews for the Hilton Pedal all state it does not affect the guitar's tone.
Other new pedals are being announced. I'm wondering if any of you have tried using three cords into your amp. You have to have the proper inputs, like my Nash 400. The steel goes directly into the AMP, the pedal is later in the chain. I never tried this with a Hilton pedal, but with a Goodrich Pot Pedal the sound is improved. My question is: If you use 3 cords, is the Super-Pedal (by Hilton or Goodrich, or whoever) really necessary? ------------------
j0e |
B Cole
unregistered
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posted 25 August 2000 03:47 PM
You can call Mike Brown at Peavey he will explain it. Now I use the three wire hook up on my new Nashville 1000 and it is great I also use it on my Session 500 also great as far as you question I will have to leave that answer to some one who uses those things I find that my sound is great the way I have it |
Chuck Smith
Member From: Crockett, Texas ,U.S.A.
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posted 26 August 2000 09:18 AM
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Joe,I use the 3 cord hook-up on both my Nash 400 and Session 500. I use the Hilton pedal. I have been using it on gigs for several months now and as I have posted before it has improved my sound and overall playing more than ANY other pedal or effects unit I have ever used..I don't know a thing about electronics or theory, just what I hear in my playing.
I have not heard of anyone who USES a Hilton pedal finding any fault with them,or not feeling they are an improvement.. ------------------
Chuck.. ."Every day's a Holiday and every night's a Party";) |
slick
Member From: Calhoun Georgia
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posted 27 August 2000 09:51 AM
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Anyone,
What is a three cord hook up?I have a nashville 400 and an ole sho-bud pedal.
Can i do it with those?
Thanks for any help.Wayne |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 27 August 2000 11:24 AM
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Slick, run your steel directly to the amp input. Put your volume pedal in the effects loop. That's the "3 cord" setup.
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slick
Member From: Calhoun Georgia
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posted 27 August 2000 02:06 PM
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Jack,
Thanks for your reply,but im still lost when
you say plug the pedal into the effects loop.
If you would explain that ill give it a try.
Keep in mind all i have is a steel,a pedal
and an amp.Thanks again.Wayne |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 27 August 2000 02:26 PM
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Run your guitar straight into the input on the amp. Run the Pre EQ OUT to the INPUT of the volume pedal. Run the output of the volume pedal to the Pre EQ IN on the amp. You then control the volume via the effects loop (or Pre EQ as it's labled on the Nashville 400). |
Joe Herchel
unregistered
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posted 27 August 2000 02:36 PM
Thanks Jack. That's exactly right.
Mike Brown of Peavey once commented he does not understand why more of us don't use this feature.Wayne,
Report back. Is it worth the effort?
(It is to me.) ------------------
j0e [This message was edited by Joe Herchel on 27 August 2000 at 02:37 PM.]
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slick
Member From: Calhoun Georgia
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posted 27 August 2000 03:09 PM
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Thanks Jack,
I have never used the PRE EQ PATCH,but ill
try it monday gotta get two more cords.I have
two but one is to short.
Joe is the difference worth investing in the
cords?Exactly what does this do for the amp?Thanks Jack
Thanks Joe Wayne |
Jim Florence
Member From: wilburton, Ok. US
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posted 27 August 2000 04:45 PM
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Makes all the difference in the world, and IMHO does away with the need for the expensive volume pedals. You'll never go back to the other way.
Jim------------------
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Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 27 August 2000 04:54 PM
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That's essentially what I do with my rack rig. My volume pedal is in the effects loop of my processor. |
Joe Herchel
unregistered
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posted 27 August 2000 05:49 PM
Wayne,
The basic theory of why it works is:The signal from your pickup is pure, but weak, before it gets amplified. That's not a good place to run it thru a pedal. So you send it to the amp where it gets boosted a bit. The signal is now much stronger. You then send it out the effects loop and thru the pedal. Since the signal is stronger, any degration caused by the pedal is a much smaller percentage of the total signal. The proof is in the pickin. Try it.
(You should have a spare cord anyway.) Lookin forward to your report...
------------------
j0e |
slick
Member From: Calhoun Georgia
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posted 27 August 2000 06:10 PM
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Thanks Joe,
Im gonna try it monday after i get some cords
The reason i dont have extra cords is that
I dont play anywhere except at home.I played the clubs for years,but i have been retired
for a long time.I still enjoy playing,and I
would like to sound as good as possible.Ill
let you know how it works out.
Thanks againWayne |
slick
Member From: Calhoun Georgia
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posted 02 September 2000 09:27 AM
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Three wire hook up-WOW!!!!
I cant beleive how much better the nashville
400 and the MSA sound.I have learned so much
on this forum.Its great to have a source of
information such as you guys.If i continue
to learn from you great people I might get out of this room,and play with a band.Its
been a long long time.
Thanks again for everything.
Wayne |
Kevin Mincke
Member From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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posted 02 September 2000 05:22 PM
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Using the above described hook-up, would an effects device(s) such as the BOSS BCB-6 stomp boxes be better before or after the volume pedal?
STEEL> AMP INPUT> AMP EFFECTS LOOP OUT> VOLPEDAL INPUT> VOLPEDAL OUT> BOSS EFFECTS IN> BOSS EFFECTS OUT> AMP EFFECTS LOOP IN.
Thanks, Kevin |
Lindley
Member From: Statesville, NC...USA
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posted 04 September 2000 05:17 AM
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Would a single coil Emmons use the low gain, or the high gain input?------------------
Steel crazy after all these years.
Emmons Lashley Legrande 111 S-10, Nashville 1000, Peavey Stereo chorus 212, Peavey Classic 50/410, Lexicon MPX 100 |
Kevin Mincke
Member From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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posted 05 September 2000 02:14 AM
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When I run the vol pedal through the effects loop of my Webb GP-14, the sound is not clean or clear but almost "dirty" sounding. I hooked up the old way steel>volped>ampin and the sound was much improved! I then added the Boss effects thru the loop. Am I doing something wrong? Makes sense to run the volume pedal (and effects) thru the loop but doesn't work on my set-up. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 05 September 2000 03:49 AM
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Kevin, what kind of volume pedal do you have? I've found the Goodrich 10K model volume pedals tend to overload and also change the tone when used in the 3 cord hookup. The standard 500K pot models work fine. I'm not familiar with the Webb amp, but if it is an effects loop generally it will work. |
Kevin Mincke
Member From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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posted 05 September 2000 08:52 AM
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Jack, the effects loop on the back is labeled "pre-amp out" and "power-amp in" below the inputs, along with send & return above these jacks respectively. I am using an older Goodrich 120 but have tried a free standing also pedal bar type Sho~Bud with sameresults. Again, it is night & day difference getting volume/clean tone back with the two various hookups! Disappointed. |
Jerry Gleason
Member From: Eugene, Oregon
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posted 05 September 2000 10:14 AM
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It seems as if running the volume pedal through the effects loop will only be an advantage if the loop places it in a stage of the preamp where it's designed to work that way, like Peavey's, or in a processor with a configurable effects loop. With my Boss GX-700, I always place the volume pedal in the effects loop, with the guitar plugged directly into the input. I configure the effects chain so that it's near the end, just before delay and reverb. In this way, even with a passive pedal, there is no tone change with volume pedal sweep as there would be with the pedal ahead of the input. However, when I tried this trick with my Evans combo amp, it sounded just the same as with the pedal ahead of the input. There was no improvement in tone, and the tone still changed with the pedal sweep. The Evans places the effects loop between the preamp and the power amp. This three cord arrangement works with the Peavey because it's designed to, but with other amps / preamps, you'll just have to try it and see. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 05 September 2000 10:19 AM
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Kevin, the preamp out/power amp in is not an "effects loop". The signal at that point is (usually) at "line level" (1V) rather than a lower "instrument" level.If the amp does not have a "standard" effects loop it probably won't work correctly using the preamp out/power amp in with a volume pedal. The Peavey's, as someone else mentioned, are designed so that you can use a volume pedal in the effects loop and it will work correctly. |
Kevin Mincke
Member From: Farmington, MN (Twin Cities-South Metro) USA
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posted 05 September 2000 11:41 AM
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Thanks Guys!
Yes, there is also a seperate "line out" jack next to the other two labeled "pre-amp out "send" & power-amp in "return". I think this is how they are labeled due to specific manufacturers' Webb vs. Peavey or Evans etc. I think the loop IS between the preamp and power amp however. I'll try the pedal before & after the effects..... but still in the loop and check results. Kevin |
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