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Author
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Topic: Standel vs. Fender
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Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 17 November 2000 02:44 PM
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I always dreamt about having an old (or new) tube Standel (1x15") but it seems that one of these will be out of my reach forever...I have an old 58 Fender Pro with JBL D130F, could anyone tell the difference between these two amps. I think speaker and power output(25-30 Watts?) is pretty much the same. Are Standels really that much better or is it only the coolness factor that makes them so expensive.
Andy
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 ShoBud Gallery
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Jay Ganz
Member From: Out Behind The Barn
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posted 17 November 2000 04:33 PM
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Hey Andy,
Ya know Standel is NOW making a new all tube
amp with a single 15" Standel speaker.  They just came out with it. There was an article about in one of my magazines.
I'll try to find it & email you a SCAN of it.
Only thing is...it's ALOT of $$$$. Definitely in the "boutique" price range. 
[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 17 November 2000 at 04:35 PM.] |
Chris DeBarge
Member From: Boston, Mass
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posted 17 November 2000 05:41 PM
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Well Andy, you know I'd have an opinion about this! Although I've never seen the schematic for the Standel, I would lean towards the cool factor being the major reason people want them. The only thing I've really heard is that they had more headroom than a Fender. I don't mean to insult the new builders(because I have seen them and the quality is beyond reproach), but $3000+ for a 25 watt amp with no reverb? They sound good, but you could buy 2 1958 Pro's for that kinda dough. Hopefully some of the guys on the forum who may have used them way back when could shed some light on this. I'm talking about the all tube ones, not the later SS stuff.Nonetheless, I STILL would love to have one, they sound great. |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 17 November 2000 10:32 PM
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 November 2000 at 10:40 PM.] [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 November 2000 at 10:44 PM.] [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 November 2000 at 10:46 PM.]
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Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 17 November 2000 10:35 PM
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Here's a link to the Standel Home Page.Danny McKinney, president and owner, told me recently that they are coming out with a steel guitar amplifier, around 150 watts, that will compete price-wise with Webb and Evans.
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Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
[This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 November 2000 at 10:37 PM.] [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 17 November 2000 at 10:56 PM.]
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Cartwright Thompson
Member From: Portland, Maine, USA
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posted 18 November 2000 03:46 AM
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I've tried a new Standel 15 with reverb. The coolness factor is huge but the price is a joke, I think this one was $3500. We had a little "tone party" at my place last summer with a few vintage and boutique amps. An 80 watt Victoria tweed twin (bought for $1000 used) with JBL's was the victor, various blackface fenders came close. The Standel won the visual category but didn't place in the audio competion.
Maybe the Standels with their class A operation (HOT) have more headroom and no crossover distortion, but we found that any of the Fenders were louder at 3 than the Standel at 9. I would also be wary of an amp that has no standby switch. The reverb wasn't that good either.
It's very easy to find good cheap tube amps and tweak them to sound great. |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 18 November 2000 07:22 AM
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Hi Folks,thanks for the information. I already contacted the Standel guys at Requisite Audio a couple of month ago. I also think the amps are overpriced. But looking at Herbs' picture makes me weak...  Interesting shoot-out, haven't heard a Victoria amp but I have the original, 1959 Tweed Twin with JBLs so it must be the same thing.
But how can you compare a 25 to a 80 Watts amp? Andy |
Chris DeBarge
Member From: Boston, Mass
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posted 18 November 2000 09:06 AM
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Hey Carty! (I know whose Standel that was ) Though it isn't totally fair to compare it to an 80-watt amp, the Standel is definately not very loud. As for the volume knob, all of my Fenders really only GO to 3, anything after that is just distortion, not much volume increase. Ah, amps are such fun. |
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
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posted 18 November 2000 09:37 AM
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Andy
My amp is a 1956 25L15, and although the panache factor is high, like it's been said, the volume for a regular steel gig is not there... it's about the volume of a Fender Deluxe, without reverb. I did play a "retro" gig with it and my Bigsby Reissue recently and it performed just great. However, I only had upright bass and snare drum to compete with, and my amp was miked.For a regular gig, I would have to go with a "regular" amp, and a Twin Reverb is the bare minimum I would consider if I were to go "tubular." ------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
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Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 18 November 2000 04:55 PM
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Tele, one thing to keep in mind when doing
amp shootouts is compare apples to apples,
don't compare a twin to a low wattage Class
A amp.
Cartwright mentioned the Victoria amp, which
is made to great detail and tone.
I have noticed that alot of pickers won't
give the boutique builders any more credit
than " they sure are expensive, but I like
my old Fender" attitude.
DR Z, Standel, Tophat, are made with very
expensive parts that do make a difference
in Tone. More Movement, Complexity, Spongier
texture. Hard to describe but its real.
Tone is everything, and it can mean nothing
if you can't play the tone.
Sounds like you have a great amp Tele, the Standel might sound different\better, but its a matter of taste.
Why is it that a reisue twin sounds boxy
and stiff and a good working 65 original twin, opens up and has that sparkle. Probably
the components , transformer, circuit board,
all have something to do with it.
I personally think the boutique builders
ask enough for there products but in this
world its nice to know some things are built
one at a time with one thing in mind . Tone.
My first bug that bit was a friends Matchless DC30, I plugged my tele into it and
instantly knew this was a serious amp. Sweet
clear, warm, punchy. Second was a Bognar Extasy head,very expensive, very complex in
tone and very creamy for ( dirty sounds).
Pick your poison, average good tone, or
better tone that inspires, ( not that the
crowd will always hear it) boutique amps.
Greg |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 19 November 2000 03:02 AM
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hey, great post, Greg....I'll give it a thought 
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Robert
Member From: Champaign, IL
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posted 19 November 2000 07:55 AM
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Several times I've read about Don Rich running his Telecaster through a Standel, and of course, he sounded great. Buck Owens went from a Bassman to a Twin Reverb. So what were Mooney, McDonald, Brumley, et al using? Twins? Old tweeds? Standel? What a great era.Rob |
Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 19 November 2000 02:46 PM
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This whole tone thing can get downright
crazy, for me it started when I was 12 years
old and got to play my Dad's 58' Deluxe and
his beeter amp 65' Vibrolux , that was the one I was allowed to play, I really didn't
know much other than they sounded good.
My Dad's favorite tone is the tone Chet got
on " A session with Chet Atkins" I believe
a Standel Class A tone. That tone is scarey
good tone when listen to it today. A totally
different tone than say a 65 twin, both are
great though!
A great tone today is Brad Paisley's tele
tone on "Me Niether" a Class A Vox type tone,
I think Brad's using DR Z. Much more complex
and throaty than Fender. Digital Simulaters
eat your heart out! Greg |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 19 November 2000 03:43 PM
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A boutique amp is like a Ferrari...and the buyers are not particularly concerned with price. They want status, and a certain type of performance (which you and I may be able to live without). |
Lefty
Member From: Grayson, Ga.
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posted 19 November 2000 06:32 PM
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Tele,
I own a 1957 Fender Pro. I know Chet Atkins played a Pro for a while back around that period but switched to a Standel w/ a D-130 15" JBL. I think the standel you are refering to was the class A that put out about 35 watts. It became a studio standard of the time for its warmth and clean headroom. I have never played through one, but I would hesitate to ever sell my Pro. With my Country Gentleman and a little delay it is a sound to die for. I have a EVM-15L in mine, which I have considered replacing with a D-130.
I don't know how the reissue Standels measure up to the originals, but I will try to find a review I have that compared the old to the new. One lesson I have learned the hard way is letting a piece of equipment go to buy something better, and learning too late that I had the best already. My 2 cents.
Lefty |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 20 November 2000 02:05 AM
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oops ..double click[This message was edited by Tele on 20 November 2000 at 02:07 AM.] |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 20 November 2000 02:06 AM
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quote:
One lesson I have learned the hard way is letting a piece of equipment go to buy something better, and learning too late that I had the best already
 oh yeah been there much too often I'd to hear about the review you mentioned. All I know about the new is from one review in VGmagazine and from their website. Andy
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Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 20 November 2000 11:53 AM
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Hey Donny, I like that analogy, you can go pick up groceries with a Pontiac, or with a
Ferrari, when you get home the food is going to taste the same, but you will have had more
fun in the process. The danger is , you can get spoiled very easily and what happens next? But Honey, Listen to the difference,
She Listens carefully, yea I kinda hear it,
you reply, Its night and Day! Then the
cheque book comes out. The more you do it,
the more you turn into a tonehound. Greg |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 21 November 2000 09:02 AM
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I play through top end tube gear for almost all my work but....I have an old Standel solid state "custom XV"
that sounds absolutly fantastic. Everything is wrong about this amp except that it sounds great. The Solid State Standel's are the ones with the special sound to my ear. Bob ------------------
Franklin D-10
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Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 21 November 2000 10:58 AM
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Bob I don't doubt your amp sounds killer,
but you have got to hear than Atkin's tone
on " A Session with Chet Atkins". It was
a low wattage class A Standel, I believe
there is a picture on the Standel website.
Very Bell like tone, As far as solid state
tone goes, Brian May say's alot of his great classic tone was on a little Solid state amp.
Not the Vox's that he is know for.Go Figure!
Chet Atkins - Standel
Robbin Ford - Dumble amp
Buddy Emmons - Twin ( Black Record)
Eric Johnson - Plexi Marshalls
All these guys could get tone out of just about any amp, but to my ear, the amps they
play however, really fit their hands and style. An interesting thought that some
people really believe, the more direct and
distinct a tone is the harder it is to play,
I think there is some truth to it, play a
average, but effect saturated sounding amp,
then go to a dry, but focused tone, all of
a sudden its right there for better or worse.
Greg |
Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 21 November 2000 11:24 AM
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The subject of amp tone is certainly a perplexing one. Everyone's idea of "great tone" is different, and there are so many great tones!For instance, Robben Ford's Dumble tone is to die for. Same with Larry Carlton. But at the other spectrum, how about Deke Dickerson playing rockabilly through a Standel! Dick Dale sounds awesome through Fender Showmans. All different tones, all great! To make matters worse, are you going to play steel, regular guitar, or both through the amp? What brand guitar, year, pickups etc.
You really need several amps depending on application and the tone your looking for. I've got one amp, a Mesa Boogie Mark 1. Sounds decent (not great) with my Stringmaster, and approaches sublime (at times) with my Gibson 335 (nice, fat singing sustain ala older Larry Carlton). I'd love to have an amp that sounded great with anything, but there's always a trade off (either the amp gets dirty too quickly or not quick enough!). Sorry for rambling... |
Cartwright Thompson
Member From: Portland, Maine, USA
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posted 22 November 2000 04:43 AM
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Guitars steel and otherwise are so easy, amps are the hard part. My motto is: "you have to suffer for tone" i.e. usually bigger and more is better, at least for steel and jazz or clean guitar.
My favorite steel amp is a Fender Custom Shop Dual Professional with JBL's. It's agony getting it to the gig (90lbs.) but once it's set up the ecstasy begins.. |
Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 22 November 2000 08:34 AM
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Cartwright,I think that dual professional would sound killer for steel and tele. Greg |
mickey
unregistered
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posted 22 November 2000 03:44 PM
Years ago I called Pete Drake Productions to find out what brand of amplifier Pete played throught, and how he got that great sound. (Must have been because he was a great musician.) The person who answered the phone said Pete was downstairs recording, but maybe he could help me. He said Pete played through a Standel Amp, but he always removed the speaker and replaced it with the cheapest speaker he could find. Probably to overdrive it? I once asked Buddy Emmons what he thought of Pete Drake's playing. He said he didn't think he could play a turnaround. He was smiling. Pete Drake played riffs and chord progressions, not melody or countermelody. Can't hear his unforgettable sounds anymore. For example listen to, "While the Feelings' Right" by Kenny Rogers, or "Blanket on the Ground" or "What I've Got in Mind" by Billie Jo Spears. Probably miked and played on a Standel Amp. |
Michael Brebes
Member From: Northridge CA
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posted 24 November 2000 01:56 PM
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Used to have a Standel amp head I played thru. It used 6GW6 tubes with a wire attached to a cap that mounted onto a metal cap on top of the top. Very clean and very reminiscent of the sound of the Sunn tube heads. The only interesting thing is that they were hybrid amps. For a number of years, before they went solid state, the preamp circuitry was all transistor circuitry and potted so you couldn't repair the preamp except to replace the complete module, which was a drag. I had a complete collection of schematics that I received from Standel back in the late 60's when I was getting that amp repaired. They had about 40 watts and simple tone controls. If anyone's interested in getting a copy of the schematics, I donated them to Groove Tubes. They are pretty good about letting people have copies of their schematic archive (that's why I gave the schematics to them). |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 24 November 2000 08:31 PM
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Greg, I've never had, or used, a Standel...and now that they're $3500, I doubt I ever will! At that kind of price, it better have a lifetime no-fault guarantee on EVERYTHING!
[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 28 November 2000 at 04:47 PM.] |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 28 November 2000 04:40 PM
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Hi Greg,got curious and checked out Paisleys tone on "Me neither" ..you're right. Sounds fantastic, but it is obvious that most of his tone comes from his hands !! Andy[This message was edited by Tele on 28 November 2000 at 04:43 PM.] |
Greg Derksen
Member From: Calgary, AB. Canada
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posted 28 November 2000 06:14 PM
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Donny at that price your right it better
have a warranty out the ying yang, believe
it or not a friend of a friend actually
ordered one, and get this, he lives in Canada
and will have to pay 1.56 for every American
buck. He has a bunch of blackface Fenders,
played the Standel and had to have it.He is
not rich either, he's a picker who has gone
tone crazy!
Tele, that tone on"me neither" for me is the
punchiest, warmest, slap, snappy, tele tone
( how is that for a discription ) I have
heard . I believe he uses DR Z Maz amps.
Sometimes you actually get what you pay for!
Greg |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 29 November 2000 02:43 PM
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Anyone that played the old Standels:
how do the early 50s compare to the late 50-early60s still alltube 15" Custom?same amp, or upgraded, better ..? |
Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
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posted 01 December 2000 04:13 AM
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I started buying Standel's after hearing Bob White play through one the first time in the 50's..... I bought my last one in the early 60's before they added reverb. I played it for years in conjunction with an Echo-Plex(anyone remember those things?),and then when the electronics "went south" I used it for an auxillary speaker on the bandstand. It was a killer for it's time, but would have to "mic" it today because of low power. I probably wouldn't buy one of the "retro's". |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 12 December 2000 01:48 AM
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Just got an old 80L15T which has tremolo but no reverb. All tube and JBL D130 speaker. I'd say it compares to Fender brown Vibrasonics in output but more headroon. It is a great amp but I suppose it doesn't compare to the 25L15 in sound. I think mine is a classAB amp compared to true Class A.Andy |
Robert
Member From: Champaign, IL
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posted 12 December 2000 03:25 PM
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Maybe this should be a new thread: I played through a Tone King (Baltimore) amp recently.
It was a twenty watt single 12" with two channels - one that sort of goes for the blackface sound with spring reverb, the other (w/o reverb) voiced like a tweed. It was an enticing amp . . . not cheap, but versatile, and great-sounding. They have a 40-watt 2-12" combo (two twenty-watts in one cabinet, really) that's probably even more versatile - oh, well. Maybe in a year or so a few will hit the "used" market. |
Chris DeBarge
Member From: Boston, Mass
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posted 13 December 2000 04:42 AM
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Andy, how about a picture of the new amp? |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
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posted 15 December 2000 03:20 PM
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 [This message was edited by Tele on 16 December 2000 at 01:31 AM.] |
Martin Abend
Member From:
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posted 15 December 2000 04:10 PM
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Andy,the link seems to be broken. Can you fix it? ...and send my videos....  ------------------
martin abend my homepage martinabend@yahoo.com
s-10 sierra crown gearless 3 x4 - fender hotrod deluxe
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Robert
Member From: Champaign, IL
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posted 15 December 2000 05:29 PM
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Hey, Tone Freaks:
That 20-watt Tone King I told you about? It was a 40-watt! But nevermind: there's a '67 Twin Reverb with JBL's (consignment) to be had at www.flynnguitars.com - I took a look today, but didn't play through it (not in the market) - but it was clean for a '67. And for those who were wondering - that's the last year for "Blackface" Fenders. BTW - the Flynn brothers and I have known each other for ten years and they've never been anything less than enthusiastic, fair, and business-like. Very professional. Somebody buy this amp!Rob |
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