As far as the "light beam". They don't make those anymore, they went out years ago. There is the Hilton Infrared and the new Goodrich CDS, which are electronic. The Hilton has had "rave" reviews and has been out for a couple of years. The Goodrich CDS is relatively new and I've only seen one person that has one and they like it, although they said they also have a Hilton.

Another thing is that the height of the pedal changes the point where your right knee contacts the knee levers. Higher= shorter travel but more difficult push.

After reading the Forum discussions on pedals, the consensus seems to be that pot pedals will trim off some highs, regardless of the level. Mine seems more bassy at lower volume than it is on full, but I don't necessarily see that as undesireable. It can add another dimension of dynamics. On the other hand, it's said of the Hilton that the tone is the same regardless of the volume level. Many like that.

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Jerry Wallace- "98 Zum: D-10,8+8, "96 Zum: D-10,8+5,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic

[This message was edited by jerry wallace on 18 July 2001 at 02:06 PM.]

Then...when wifey asks "What do you want for Christmas?"...let HER spring for the hi-buck pedal!!!

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 02 August 2001 at 03:11 PM.]

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Jerry Wallace- "98 Zum: D-10,8+8, "96 Zum: D-10,8+5,Nashville 1000,Session 500 ,Session 400 head only amp,Tubefex,ProfexII, Artesia, New Mexico
http://communities.msn.com/jerrywallacemusic

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sho-bud,session 500,american standard strat,shecter tele,peavy classic 50

NO way! At audio frequencies, ANY capacitive or inductive properties there might be is sooooooo small, NO human could ever hear its affect.

What causes many people to feel there is a tonal shift is the reason manufacturers put "loudness" contols (and switches) on hi quality stereo equipment. When the volume is low, we do not hear bass frequencies respectively speaking, as loud as we hear them at higher levels.

This then, make us think there is a fall off in the highs at higher volume leves. When there is NONE at all.

Humans do NOT hear equally, different audio frequencies at varying levels. This phenomenon is called the "C weighting" factor and is used by audio engineers to build in compensators (sometimes switchable) to counteract this deficiency of the human ear.

The feeling by many that certain frequencies at different levels are "colored", is a result of this human characteristic and NOT the equipment itself in most cases. This is never more true than in the case of a pot volume pedal.

A "POT" volume pedal is purely resistive. It takes capacitance and/or inductance to change tone in any electronic device. A pure resistor can NOT do it!

What tiny tiny tiny bit of capacitance (and virtualy NO inductance) there is in a pot volume pedal would change the tone sooo little (if at all), NO human could ever hear it.

And there is NO way the statement "a pot volume pedal changes tone" could ever be proven in controlled double blind tests.

That's very interesting. If I understand you correctly, though, you're saying that the descibed phenomena makes someone feel there are less highs at higher volume levels, because bass frequencies are not as obvious at lower frequencies.

As I have understood the posts of others, and what my own experience SEEMS to be, is that a pot pedal sounds more bassy at LOWER volume levels. There SEEM to be more highs at HIGHER volume levels. Maybe someone has experienced the opposite effect, but I've always thought people were referring to the effect as I describe it. I've always taken it for granted on guitar also, that if I turn the volume pot down on my guitar, the tone will also become somewhat bassier and less distinct.

I certainly won't try to make the case scientifically that this truly happens, because I can only say it has always SEEMED that way.

From the way I've understood posts on the Hilton pedal, others think that it maintains the same high frequency clarity at LOWER settings, unlike a pot pedal.

Does this make scientific sense?

The Peavey "Parametric EQ" control that's on many steel amps is basically a variable frequency level adjustment, similar to a Graphic EQ except you only have one frequency you can set it to and then you can either attenuate or boost that frequency - and in the case of the E9th tuning generally around 800Hz is cut to equalize out the response.

(1.)The sharper impact highs have at higher levels being absent at lower levels, and how the bass and changes in it perhaps doesn't draw the attention.

(2.)It seems possible that some of the very high frequencies that give the sound its clarity, immediacy, and character are not as loud to start with, in comparison to the main body of the signal. At lower settings, these frequencies would be among the first to become inaudible to the ear. (Hard to really say about this one.)

I also found some indication of the effect that Carl describes above, of the signal becoming more thin with LESS BASS at lower settings.

So I guess what I've always took for granted has possibly been an unexamined subjective impression, at least to a great extent. Someone could make the case that pot pedals don't change the tonal frequency range at different volume levels, and I would think that is entirely possible.

I've never tried the Hilton, but there has been at least one thread on here recently that discussed the Hilton's tonal consistency throughout its range, and the fact that it maintained clarity and high frequencies throughout the range of movement,contrasting that with a pot pedal. Maybe that thread was kind of an exception in talking mostly about high frequencies, I don't know. My curiousity is peaked now. Does the Hilton appear to many to effect the sound less only as a whole, or also with relation to different volume levels? If a pot pedal really doesn't change tones at different levels but appears to some people to do so, what would this say about the Hilton, if people have the impression that it does this less than a pot pedal or not at all? Maybe if the Hilton keeps more of the original signal, it doesn't as readily reach a point where some frequencies become inaudible to the ear at lower volume settings.

[This message was edited by Jeff A. Smith on 25 July 2001 at 06:51 AM.]

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sho-bud,session 500,american standard strat,shecter tele,peavy classic 50

Regarding the PSG pickup and volume pedal question, Carl is also absolutely right that the parasitic inductances and capacitances within the pedal itself are negligable and cannot noticably effect the sound. Could the external cable capacitances be non-negligable, though? I know hifi buffs pay extra $$ to get low-capacitance cables....

[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 01 August 2001 at 10:54 AM.]

Just one reaction to your post - Ahhhh! Nice job. This puts it all into perspective; at least for me. It fits my experience and apparently accounts for a wide variation in a lot of others as well.

But oops, I see you've removed the material from your post that I was commenting on. Anyway, glad I saw it before it disappeared.

Thanks, Bob

[This message was edited by Bob Kagy on 01 August 2001 at 11:08 AM.]

Sorry the post disappeared. I "did the math" on the circuit after I put it up and as it turns out you'd need a huge inductance in the pickup coil to cause a high frequency rolloff. Something like 1/10th of a Henry. So, as intuitive as it might have seemed, it didn't pan out--so I retracted it. The circuit I drew is right, but it lacked the parasitic capacitances of the cables. If those get up near 100pF-200pF, they start becoming a problem in dulling the tone. Right now I can't see where else the issue would be coming from.

Here's a modified version of the drawing which includes the cable capacitances:

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Bill (steel player impersonator) | MSA Classic U12 | Email | My music | Steeler birthdays | Over 50?

[This message was edited by Bill Llewellyn on 02 August 2001 at 07:46 AM.]

Also (IMHO)...there's no "magic" in any volume pedal. They do basically the same thing as the volume control in your guitar, or the ones in the amp. The "increased sustain" that a lot of players experience with a powered pedal is due to the preamp that's in the pedal...nothing more. Having more available gain lets you compensate more for the natural decay of the signal. Turning up the amp does about the same thing.

But, if you're using a low-powered, low budget amp, the amplified pedal might give you more useable volume (power).

[This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 02 August 2001 at 03:24 PM.]