|
Author
|
Topic: Standel Amplifiers
|
rayman
unregistered
|
posted 25 December 2001 02:53 PM
Will someone please educate me on Standel Ampliers as relates to steel guitar. Are they any good? They just came out with a solid state, Herb, are you there? |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
|
posted 25 December 2001 04:59 PM
profile
The newer Standels are close to "Botique" amps..."retro" looks and high prices! (Their "replacement" speaker alone is over $400!) They are quite good, but I think these are "tone amps" and not the "high-power amps" we steelers have become accustomed to. If you were miking, or running through a board, you would be very impressed. But if you tried to play out in a large venue without aux amplification, you might be disappointed, and you might blow that 15" speaker, as well (it's only rated at 50 watts).Some top Jazz and Blues players use them. Of course, if you have a couple thou handy, and are interested in "status", these amps will give it to you! |
rayman
unregistered
|
posted 25 December 2001 08:09 PM
Donny, one of their amps is able to dial up 25, 50, or 100 watts using a switch. How much better could it be than a Webb? They are very expensive. I am curious about using a tube amp for steel. Worried about head room. We mike everything on stage. |
Robert
Member From: Champaign, IL
|
posted 25 December 2001 08:44 PM
profile
rayman:
I know that you have a lot of experience in music and steel guitar - so don't take this the wrong way, but if you want to use a tube amp and you mic your amp - why don't you just use a Twin Reverb? Even a collectible old one from the '60's would cost less than a Standel. I'm guessing that you've used them in the past and didn't care for something, but I don't know - so that's why I'm asking. Also, wouldn't putting a mic on the amp and running through the PA solve the amp's headroom problem - a mic on a Twin set to "4" or "5" would work, no? The only other thing I know about Standel amps is that Don Rich used one (at least sometimes) and I always liked his tone - but that's not steel. Happy Holidays. Rob Yale[This message was edited by Robert on 25 December 2001 at 08:51 PM.] |
Ken Fox
Member From: Ray City, GA USA
|
posted 25 December 2001 09:32 PM
profile
http://www.requisiteaudio.com/standel.html
Site for Standel amps. Danny McKiney is the new owner, a great guy. I spoke with him recently while I was repairing a 60's Standel amp. Very helpful, sent me copies of schematics. He expressed a deep interest in developing an amp for steel use. I recommended he start going to some of the steel shows to meet the players and see what their interest might be in such an amp. The amps they produce now are class "A" amps, much like the amp Chet Atkins used for his entire recording career, according to an artice I read by Paul Yandell.
|
Herb Steiner
Member From: Cedar Valley, Travis County TX
|
posted 25 December 2001 10:07 PM
profile
Well, rayman, Mike Cass is the far better person to opine about this type of amp, but I will throw a small amount of what little information I have out to ya. First there are the tube Standels (1954-60 or so), the hybrids (early 60's), and there are the solid state Standels (mid-60's to early 70's). The tube models are the collectibles, and sound quite awesome when paired with a steel guitar from the same era, like a Stringmaster, Bigsby, or early Sho~Bud. No reverb though, and relatively low power. Amps from this era, on the collectibles market, do not yet sell for what their equivalent tweed Fender model (Twin or Pro) goes for. I think Standel went to solid state in the mid-60s, and the brand new Emmons Co. was a distributor for their amp line. No doubt this helped their acceptance in country music circles. Buddy E used a Custom 15 when playing with Price in the mid-60's, also Wes Montgomery used this model amp. Some models had reverb, other not. I owned a Custom 15 in the mid 70's and liked the tone, but it had no reverb so I had to let it go and went back to my Twin Reverb. I went to Mike Cass' house a few years ago to pick up a 65 PP he had restored for me, and I played it through his 2 mid-60's Custom XV's with a Roland reverb/delay between them. The sound was awesome. Recently I acquired a couple of Studio X's from that era that approximate that sound, but the speaker configuration isn't a match to the 2 JBL 15's. I started going "retro" a few years back and acquired a Bigsby looking for "that tone", so I also decided I'd like to find a Standel of that same vintage; ultimately finding a 1956 25L15 and a 1960 80L15. On one record date I did recently, per the producer's request, I played a 65 Emmons through the 80L15 with a Fender outboard reverb unit. Very acceptable tone,  , IMHO. When I got the 25L15 a couple of years ago, I contacted Danny McKinney (current owner of Standel) and we talked amps and steel guitars. He allowed as how the Reissue Standels were indeed a boutique amp, designed for relatively low power (or mic'ed amp) applications, and also out of the price range most steel guitarists would like to spend. He also acknowledged the high dollar-to-power ratio. But competing against a Nashville 1000 is not what the Standel is about, obviously. He mentioned at that time that he had in mind an amp of around 150 watts that could retail for the price of boutique steel amp, such as an Evans or a Webb... perhaps around $1400-1700. I gave him my opinion that an amp of that power would be suitable for many professional steel players and that there is a group of steelers with the bucks that might drop the dough on a Standel if the sound was there. That was the end of our conversation and I haven't talked with him since that time. As to the current Reissue 25L15: Ry Cooder has a Paul Warnik guitar, PA Reissue #2, and he also got a new 25L15. He told me recently that he was unhappy with the new Standel speaker, but put a D-130 in it and now loves the sound. But Ry mostly records with the amp and doesn't play in a loud band on a spread-out bandstand. Excuse the long-winded rambling... Herb out. ------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 25 December 2001 at 10:12 PM.] [This message was edited by Herb Steiner on 25 December 2001 at 10:17 PM.]
|
Gene Jones
Member From: Oklahoma City, OK USA
|
posted 26 December 2001 04:39 AM
profile
I still have the JBL from my last (early 60s) Standel in a cabinet in my music room...but the amp fried long ago. In my opinion it was the best sounding amp of it's era, but Herb is right..the downside was that it was short on power and had no reverb. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
|
posted 26 December 2001 09:06 AM
profile
I understand BJ Cole is using one of the new Standels these days. One of the selling points of the new Standels is that they will configure them to your needs. I plan on checking one out next time I get out to the west coast.I have an old solid state custom super XV and it has the mojo. Bob |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
|
posted 26 December 2001 12:24 PM
profile
Rayman, I would expect the Standel to be different, but not necessarily better than a Webb, or an Evans for that matter. But why would you be curious about using a tube amp for steel? Until the mid '60s, that's all steelplayers had!Now, when it comes to "Botique amps", there's a few out there that go for about 5 grand! (Buy one of them, and you can look down your nose at even the Standel owners!) The Webb and the Evans aren't quite in that class, but they're higher than most other popular steel amps. No one can tell you what to do with your money, but how many people out there can really tell the difference in the sound of an $800 amp, a $2000 amp, or a $5000 amp? Especially when it's buried in a band with 4 or 5 other instruments. Now, Buddy or Paul might have a reason for having something really "exclusive" and different. But personally, I don't think players like you or I do. (No slam intended.) But, it's your money! |
rayman
unregistered
|
posted 26 December 2001 01:45 PM
Donny, what a great forum we have! Ultimately, you are correct as usual. I am just intrigued by The Standel Amplifier which I have heard about in the past. Also about the tube thing. Their guitar amps are just so cool looking and their history is pretty interesting. Herb, thank you for the education. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
|
posted 26 December 2001 10:22 PM
profile
Donny,Well uhh... new Standel amps do cost around $5,000. Although it is easy to set up a high end tube amp that is no more expensive than a Web or Evans. I am currently using a VHT 2/90/2 power amp with a couple 12's in separate cabs.
Furman PQ3 for a pre and a lexicon reverb.
It has at least as much head room as 2 Web amps and cost me quite a bit less. I check everything out and let my ears decide what works or not for me. I find that there are drastic and important differences in how different amps work with different steels and steel players. Bob |
Jussi Huhtakangas
Member From: Helsinki, Finland
|
posted 27 December 2001 12:51 AM
profile
I have a new Standel 25L15 and to put it mildly, I'm very happy with it. I've heard said, that it's not your "everyday" amp. To me it is. The tone is great and it suits my needs perfectly, I use it exclusively with steel and lead guitar and although it's not a high powered amp ( 18 watts in class A makes it louder than a tweed Fender Bassman ), I've never had a problem hearing it. With the bigger venues it has to be miked like any other amp, but so far I haven't been able to find that tone in any other amp. Comparing a Fender or Peavey to a Standel is somewhat like comparing a solid body guitar to an archtop, the design and the tone are different. And you have to remember, that the 25L15 was designed in -53, when "stupid-loud" was not yet invented and the bass drum was not considered as the heart and soul of the band, which has to be heard over everything else. It was like Bigsby guitars, and still is a custom amp, and as far as money, read what Chas said in his post on his D8 Bigsby. Personally, I like my Standel better than my money. If you don't want to spend that much on one, try to hunt down one of the 60's ones, especially the hybrid models sound great and usually they go for lot less than one grand. Some of the later models are also higher powered, I once played my friends' -58 model 80L15 in Sweden, and I can assure you it was loud, I had to set it below 3 to keep the balance with the rest of the band.
If you wonder how these amps work for steel, in addition to before mentioned players, listen to Buddy Charleton with ET, or Pete Drake. Lloyd Green is also pictured with one on the back cover of his "Hit Sound"-album. Bobby Garrett, Bob White and Pee Wee Whitewing all used Standels with Hank Thompson, as did his whole band. And I'm not even going to start with the guitar players.
Jussi |
Tele
Member From: Andy W. - Wolfenbuettel, Germany
|
posted 27 December 2001 01:57 PM
profile
Same goes for me.
I have an original 25L15 and a later,still all-tube S80V. I also owned an 80L15 and played a couple of Hybrid models.
These amps are powerful enough for a smaller venue and offer a tone that is totally different from a Fender.
I don't want to bragg about them but after I got the 25L15 I sold my 1959 Tweed Twin amp because I haven't used anything else but the Standel since then.
I know you can get the new amps cheaper than $5k, original 25L15 amps usually sell for $2~5k while you can find the later tube combos for even under a grand.Andy |
Chris DeBarge
Member From: Boston, Mass
|
posted 27 December 2001 05:39 PM
profile
Andy and Jussi, not to go against you two, and Jussi I've heard you play and have some of your records(nothing wrong with your tone!), BUT...I've had to play through the new Standels a few times and they really had me scratching my head. I've heard the old ones and they are just plain great, but these two I used were disappointing, because I've always wanted one. I would definitely not describe them as "loud", a deluxe reverb would have no problem keeping up with them. And the tone of them was just bland. Care to comment? Especially you Jussi, you have a new one and it sounds fine. BTW, I think they're more like $3,000. Still, for that kind of dough I'll hang onto my Fenders for now!  |
Jussi Huhtakangas
Member From: Helsinki, Finland
|
posted 28 December 2001 02:02 AM
profile
Chris, aside of the subjective tone fact, I guess it depends on what you plug into it. And no, I don't mean it has to be a certain type or brand of a guitar. Some pick ups might be too bright sounding for it. Deke Dickerson mentioned, that his Tele didn't sound good at all with his new 25L15, it was annoyingly trebly. I've heard a friend's Tele plugged into mine and it sounded great. I have little experience of other steels than mine with a new 25L15. So far every instrument I've used with it has had single coil PU's and very different from Fender-type PU's; DeArmonds, Fralin alnico P90's, old Sho-Buds. I like the combination of these type of pick ups and a Standel. Few local jazz players have tried my amp with their own guitars with humbuckers and such, and they all liked it.
You can choose from different power tubes when you order a 25L15, so I chose mine with 6550's, mainly because good 6550's are easier to get than good 807's, which were the original configuration. Mine also has an early JBL D130 in it, which was simply because I had one extra at hand, so I ordered the amp without the speaker. I haven't had a chance to compare mine side by side with other new ones, so I can't say how much the speaker sound differs. I guess one of the amps you've tried was Sean Mencher's. I played that one in VLV with my guitar and I couldn't tell the difference, neither with the other new 25L15's, that were demonstrated there this year.
I guess what made you scratch your head was the difference in sound compared to your Fender. Years ago I experienced the same when I went from Fender type of amps to a Selmer with a JBL, which is close to how Standels sound. I'm pretty sure it won't be an everyday amp for someone, who's used to a new LeGrande with a Peavey 1000.
About the volume, it's loud enough, but don't join a metal band with it . About the price, I bought mine three years ago when US-dollar was still relatively low, so it cost me less than a new high end Fender now 
Jussi |
Mike Cass
Member From: Nashville,Tn. U.S.A.
|
posted 28 December 2001 09:15 AM
profile
Herb mentioned this thread to me several days ago, but Im just now getting around to posting on it....
'Been busy trying to get my duck in a row
anyway...for me,the deal with the Standels is this...Ive owned 50's tube models, hybrids & 60's-70's solid state Standels.
My fave of all of those is the mid 60's solid state Super Custom XV(orCustom XV...diff is a 4 ohm JBL as opposed to an 8 ohm Jensen).
As they dont have quite the output wattage to hang with todays volumes, I use 2 of them & am able to keep up with no problem.I run both on about 3-5. Bob Crooks told me that thats where they sound best and he was right. The tone at that level is exactly what Im looking for....deep,round bass, clean, glassy mids & a sparkling high end.
Since I quit playing Standels in the late 70's Ive tried every imaginable amp for steel looking for that tone, but with more gain & reliability.That search brought me back to Standel a few years ago.
I can share with you that the first few songs of the 1st set I played that night a few years back, using 2 of the solid state amps was pretty scary !!!! I kept glancing at my Session 400 in the corner, & Johnny Barber, who was on drums, was looking at me like.."what were you thinking??" ...then around the 3rd or 4th song it all came back to me.
I had forgotten how to get a tone with my hands, opting to let the axe, amp, effects etc do the work for me. The problem with the Standel is that it gives you exactly what you put into it..no more, no less.
Ive made a number of small adjustments to my technique since that time....all for the better, I believe. If youre used to the Peavey mids thing,or the Webb or Evans highs, a Standel can be unfamilar territory.The best settings Ive found are :Bass: all the way up & sneak back into the sweet spot around 9 1/2. Contour: about 3/4 open. Treble: about 1/3 open.
And like magic, theres THAT sound, the sound many of us grew up with.
btw, LLoyd said that the amp on the album jacket wasnt his, he used an Ampeg on his early recordings till he went to the Deluxe & Twin Reverbs.
I havent found that I get the sound Im looking for with the tube model Standels.The hybrid model is loud as hell, but somehow still lacking in sweetness. The solid state is the one that covers those bases for me.The cost of these amps is still quite reasonable.....in the $250.00 - $550.00 range. Occassionally they need work, but Tim Maag in Fullerton,Ca. can handle just about any problem with them.
Oh yeah,I almost forgot....if you decide to play thru them, you may want to buy a good digital reverb; Dep-5 or SRV-2000(Roland).....unless yer into surf music .Hope this helps...MC
ps....wheres the dictionary, Bobbe?
[This message was edited by Mike Cass on 28 December 2001 at 09:41 AM.] |
Chris DeBarge
Member From: Boston, Mass
|
posted 29 December 2001 07:31 AM
profile
Jussi, I wasn't expecting it to sound like a Fender. Still, it just wasn't working for me! 
Again, my disappointment was high because I was considering buying one. I thought instead of using 2 or 3 different amps depending on guitar or steel, or size of venue, it would be nice to just have the Standel to cover it all. Oh well, I finally got the correct D130 for my brown Vibrasonic, so maybe I'll stop buying amps for at least a little while! |
PAUL WARNIK
Member From: OAK LAWN,IL,USA
|
posted 04 January 2002 05:52 AM
profile
One year ago last May I was at the annual "Four Amigos" sponsored vintage guitar show up here and as usual nothing of interest was happening for me-then I see these two older guys wheeling in an amp with a cover over it on a cheap suitcase dolley-to my good fortune they got past half the dealers and still had not sold the amp-so they pass by me and I see the Standel name on the amp cover-What have you got there??? I asked-they replied We have this Standel amp and somebody over yonder told us we need to find a steel guitar player to sell it to-WELL HERE I AM-we take off the cover to expose the mint condition late model(transistor)Studio 24-it turns out that these guys were from some organization like the Moose lodge and the amp had belonged to the recently deceased Grand Poobah who only used the amp once every few months to make announcements with a microphone at the lodge meetings-supposedly never even had a guitar played though it-So I asked what they wanted for it and the asking price was $450-so we haggled down to $425 with the cheapo suitcase cart thrown in-I didnt even play through the amp-just plugged it in to make sure the power came on-since then my Fender Vibrosonic and all my Evans amps have been silent-and the last three times that I played out it was an Emmons p/p and that Standel-and each time the guitar players were all jealous and commented about the fantastic sound-I had become used to playing through 15" speakers and while the Standels two 12"s are a bit thinner than what I am used to for recording-I cant beat the tone of this amp for playing out live-a definite keeper | |
The Steel Guitar Forum
