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Author
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Topic: Alternatives to George L cables
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Bill Leff
Member From: Santa Cruz, CA, USA
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posted 06 May 2002 07:15 AM
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I've got a slew of George L cables. I'm very happy with the sound, but not the durability and the way they tangle up. I'd be interested to hear about others positive experiences with cables OTHER than George L's. Am interested in a good price/performance ratio (some cables are way too expensive for me). Thanks, Bill
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Glenn Austin
Member From: Montreal, Canada
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posted 06 May 2002 08:11 AM
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Try Canare GS-6 with Neutrik 1/4 inch connectors. It's available in a slew of colors, noiseless,and it's indestructable. They also recommend it as a good cable to use between your amp head and speaker due to it having low capacitance and resistance. I've been using the same cables for 10 years, and I haven't had one fail me yet. About a buck a foot. |
B Cole
unregistered
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posted 06 May 2002 09:00 AM
Where do you find this cableBill |
Brad Bechtel
Moderator From: San Francisco, CA
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posted 06 May 2002 09:12 AM
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I'm surprised to hear you're having troubles with the George L's cables. I've been using the same set for about four years now and other than having to re-cut one end on one cable, I've had no problems so far.------------------
Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars |
Glenn Austin
Member From: Montreal, Canada
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posted 06 May 2002 09:53 AM
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I bought this stuff at an electronics wholesaler here in Montreal called Addison Electronics. I have also seen it at a couple of PA places I frequent. I neglected to mention that you have to solder these cables yourself. If I can find this in Montreal, then surely it's available in the States. |
Jim Smith
Member From: Plano, TX, USA
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posted 06 May 2002 11:07 AM
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quote:
They also recommend it as a good cable to use between your amp head and speaker
Surely they don't recommend using the same cables for guitar and speakers!  Guitar cables must be shielded and normally can not handle the voltages necessary for speaker load. Speaker cables are generally unshielded and use two wires of the same gauge, much larger than guitar cables. |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 06 May 2002 11:46 AM
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I've always used the same cables for instrument and speakers. I buy a good cable and never have had a problem.
Uff-Da! |
Raymond Beale
Member From: Rosenberg, Texas, USA
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posted 06 May 2002 12:48 PM
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I guess if you're playing through 2 watt radio speakers, you could use coax cable, as the center conductor is maybe? 22ga. max. However, normal instrument amplifiers that put out 50 to 300 watts of power require anywhere from 16 to 12 ga. wire, and thats only on short runs, ie 20 ft or less. Yes, you will get a sound out of the coax, but the amp isn't designed for it and you loose alot of power.------------------
"STRINGBUSTER" no more
MSA S-12 & SIERRA S-12 keyless
Ray Beale Rosenberg,Tx |
Glenn Austin
Member From: Montreal, Canada
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posted 06 May 2002 02:07 PM
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It works for me. It also specs almost the same as their speaker cable, so go figure. |
Ron Randall
Member From: Dallas, Texas, USA
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posted 06 May 2002 04:00 PM
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What about George L's FAT red cable? Don't look like it would tangle up. |
Michael Johnstone
Member From: Sylmar,Ca. USA
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posted 06 May 2002 06:00 PM
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The GeorgeL cable is a bit kink-prone but if handled and wound up with a bit of finesse it will hang in there with the rest of em.I welcome the small guage and the lack of bulk when stored in my seat - and they sure sound good. -MJ- |
Jeff Peterson
Member From: Nashville, TN USA
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posted 06 May 2002 07:30 PM
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The best alternative for higher priced speaker cable is lamp(AC) cable you can find at any hardware store.....cheap. Or at least, cheaper. What makes alot of the 'low noise' cables quiet is, in fact, their higher resistance....like 'Monster' and them types there...ya' know?[This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 06 May 2002 at 07:34 PM.] [This message was edited by Jeff Peterson on 06 May 2002 at 07:38 PM.] |
Danny Hullihen
Member From: Harrison, Michigan
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posted 06 May 2002 07:31 PM
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Jim Smith & Raymond Beal, you are absolutely right! |
seldomfed
Member From: Colorado
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posted 06 May 2002 10:18 PM
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I use George L for pedal steel, works ok. Also have tried the Monster cables for guitar - sound identical to me.------------------
Chris Kennison
Ft. Collins, Colorado
"We can't afford to let Nature run wild" - govt. offical - Alaska
www.seldomfed.com |
Chuck McGill
Member From: Jackson, Tn
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posted 07 May 2002 04:29 AM
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You might want to try the Planet Waves cables
I've found them to be very quiet and they have a new connector that works for better contact to the jack. |
Doug Childress
Member From: Orange, Texas
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posted 07 May 2002 06:43 AM
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I've used George L's cables for several years and do not have a tangle problem. The key for me is in the way that I curl them when storing. There is a technique that I learned from another musician which rolls one curl by twisting to the right and the next by twisting the cable to the left and rolling. This alternating roll allows the cable to drop to the floor and unroll without tangle. |
Kevin Hatton
Member From: Amherst, N.Y.
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posted 07 May 2002 09:13 AM
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I only use Monster cables. Lifetime guarantee no questions asked. Fulaka guitars in Canada also makes super high quality cables. They are expensive but good. |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 07 May 2002 09:46 AM
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I use regular instrument cables to my speakers and also with my PA system. My PA system uses two 800 watt Peavey amps and if I crank that baby up you wouldn't want to stand in front of it or it would knock you over!
Uff-Da! |
ajm
Member From: Los Angeles
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posted 07 May 2002 12:54 PM
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Between Glenn, Jim and Erv I strongly suspect that there are some missing pieces of information.I've always been told that it is not wise to use instrument cable for speaker runs because a) of the added resistance in the instrument cables due to the smaller conductors used, and b) you could possibly melt the wire. It is not wise to use speaker cable for instrument runs because it is unshielded.
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Jeff Peterson
Member From: Nashville, TN USA
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posted 07 May 2002 04:19 PM
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Fulawka does not make cable....check his supplier. |
Brad Sarno
Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
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posted 07 May 2002 05:30 PM
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Erv, time for a re-education. It's most definitely NOT a good idea to run high power for speakers thru instrument cables. Of course it will work, but it's very inefficient and restricts the free flow of enough current to let your system do what it wants to do. For a 20 watt guitar amp, sure a guitar cord can handle the juice but when you get up into the 40 watt (or hi power for a PA system) range, current is an issue. Just because your system works and sounds ok doesn't mean it's optimal. If you have decent ears and compare your guitar cords with true speaker wire of sufficient guage when powering your PA speakers, I GUARANTEE you'll notice a number of things; cleaner sound, more solid, pitch-defined bass,more punch, generally better fidelity and power efficiency. It's basic physics and industry standards. Brad Sarno |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 07 May 2002 07:49 PM
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Brad is right, lows take watts...lotsa watts. Coax designed for microphones just won't handle the current for "Chalker-type" tones when used as speaker wire. There's not enough conductor there, especially if a long piece is used. On the other hand, if you're the guy who leaves the volume on 3, the bass on 4, the midrange at 6, and the treble at 7, you'll probably notice no difference. High frequencies take very little power to reproduce (I guess this is why you can hear a cricket a quarter mile away). Lows, on the other hand, take gobs of power (and this is why there are no popular 15-watt bass amps).To put it simply, the power you use and need depends more on your tonal demands than anything else. Playing like early Mooney, Brumley, or Green...30-50 watts is probably fine. Playing like Chalker or Jernigan...better have at least 150. [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 07 May 2002 at 07:50 PM.] |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 09 May 2002 11:13 PM
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I have heard that some amps are sensitive to capacitive loads and may become unstable if an instrument cable is used as a speaker cable. |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 10 May 2002 12:55 PM
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I just rewired part of my rack with a dozen George L red cables and made a half dozen other cables for the 3 volume pedals I was using. All of the TRS cables I use and some of the 'regular' cables I use are Canare, with Neutrik plugs. The savings in 'bulk' (thin cable and small plugs) and the convenience of not having to solder 36 plugs alone made it worthwhile; when I wind them up, twist left, twist right, they come out straight, and they sound good. |
Brian Wetzstein
Member From: Seattle, WA, USA
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posted 11 May 2002 03:20 AM
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I spend the bread on Monster and have been very happy with the tone. I also like the fact that you can go shark fishing with them and then just trade them in... |
Erv Niehaus
Member From: Litchfield, MN, USA
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posted 11 May 2002 10:17 AM
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Hey guys!
I just did an inventory of my cables. I discovered that for my loooong speaker cables I'm usinc "CSI 16/2 High Power Speaker Wire".
That should make some of you happy. For my shorter runs (both instrument and speaker), I'm using "Belden 8410 PG" and "Belden 8412"
cables. How do these measure up?
Uff-Da! |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 11 May 2002 10:32 PM
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I was curious about the Canare GS-6 cable mentioned by Glenn so I went to Canare.com to get more info. It's designed for instrument use but has a heavier center conductor than most guitar cable I've seen - 18 ga - hence their recommendation for speaker connections. It looks like great cable, sturdy but very flexible. I like cable that lies flat on stage and coils easily. I am going to try some as soon as I can find a source in the US. However, despite the claim of low capacitance, it is not particularly low at 49pF/foot. I believe the small-diameter George L cable is about 20 pF/foot.There is a cable made in Germany called La Grange, made by Klotz, that is supposed to be good. Capacitance is 70 pF/meter, roughly the same as the George L. I don't know if it is available in the US. |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 12 May 2002 12:25 AM
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I am going to try some as soon as I can find a source in the US. >>>> Electronic City, 4001 W. Burbank Blvd, Burbank, CA. 818-842-5275 |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 12 May 2002 03:37 PM
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Thanks, Chas, I'll give them a try! |
Brad Sarno
Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
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posted 12 May 2002 10:20 PM
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If anyone wants to get really serious about their cable, there's this audiophile cable made by Vandenhul and it's touted as the lowest capacitance cable there is. I use a couple of short runs of the stuff in my studio. It's a bit ridiculous with the price and all. On my stereo in my living room I'm using George L's cable but with soldered on audiophile gold plated rca connectors. The stuff sounds as good as the $20/foot stuff. I think George L is on to something with that layer of black gooey stuff under the outer insulation. They say it's some anti-static stuff. I dont know why some cables even with the same capacitance factor sound different, but they all do. A cool test is to run a guitar with no preamp thru the longest run of cable you can round up, say 75' or 100'. That will exaggerate the sonic character of a cable. It's good to do A/B tests that way as the differences are made even more obvious. Brad Sarno
Mullen U-12/Twin/BW |
Doug Childress
Member From: Orange, Texas
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posted 13 May 2002 10:28 AM
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FYI. According to the lady in the George L booth at St. Louis ISGC, there is no difference in the George L "red" or "black" cable. I was present when a customer asked for an explanation. The lady told him that they had ordered cable in different colors. To get the "red" cost a little more thus the difference in price to the customer. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 13 May 2002 11:21 AM
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quote:
According to the lady in the George L booth at St. Louis ISGC, there is no difference in the George L "red" or "black" cable.
Then how can they tell which is which? |
Bruce Derr
Member From: Lee, New Hampshire, USA
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posted 13 May 2002 11:48 AM
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Erv, regarding your question about the Belden cables... Belden 8410 is good quality instrument cable but has a light-duty (25 AWG, with only 7 strands of 33 AWG wire) center conductor. Not the best choice for a speaker cable. Capacitance is 33 pF/foot. The 8412 has two conductors, both heavier gauge (20 AWG, 26 strands of 34 AWG), and has a capacitance of 30 pF/foot. This is good cable for balanced low-Z microphones. It's ok for short speaker runs but a larger gauge would be better. |
Steve Feldman
Member From: Millbury, MA USA
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posted 13 May 2002 12:37 PM
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quote:
Then how can they tell which is which?
The red cable is thicker.... |
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