I've been playing an S10 with a Rock band.
I use a '65 Deluxe Reverb or a '74 SF Pro Reverb. Both are loaded with the factory speakers.
We play in small to medium size clubs. Guitar, bass, drums and me
Both of these amps sound awesome in my studio at home, but in clubs with the band both amps have too much distortion ( albeit nice sounding distortion) once they're loud enough.
I'm thinking I've got to bite the bullet and start lugging a Twin around- but the dimensions of the Deluxe are perfect.

Is there a way to soup up a RI Deluxe and put a 12JBL in it to cover in place of a twin?

If you turn the volume knob of the Twin down to say "3"..then yes, the DLX RVB can be as loud as the Twin..but never as clean...

But goodnight Irene..

I've heard rumours that the Twin's have been know to be outlawed due to manslaughter..

1st three rows get out of the way...

It is that simple. NO way can you get the same power from 2 output tubes as you can 4. While you won't get twice the power (eddy current and other intrinsic losses accepted), the power does increase dramatically if you double the amount of output tubes.

-Weber Copper cap
-RCA 6V6 tubes
-Fender/JBL, D120F

A Twin with stock Jensens, Oxfords or Eminence can still get a bit more volume (and a lot more with JBL, EV or Peavey speakers installed), but for most gigs I can keep up fine. I played a huge hall up in the Dalles with a guitar player who had a Dual Showman Reverb and a 2-12 cab. I had no problems at all. I had a backup amp with me, just in case!

Bottom line, as John said above, it can be greatly improved over the original.

I am not convinced about using 6L6GC tubes. I have seen some interesting articles about this and how one needs to change the main power supply transformer
(to accomidate the extra current requirements) and also change the output transformer to accomidate the incorrect impedance (a 6V6 tranformer does not reflect the correct load to the 6L6GC tubes)

A larger output transformer (more iron) will result in much better low end, too.

The last Vibroverb Clone I built (from a Bandmaster Reverb amp) got a Twin Reverb OT. The amp was perceivably louder and had outstanding low end! A Twin OT would work on the Deluxe with the 6L6 Tubes. It would reflect the correct impedance, too. For 4 each 6L6GC tubes, the transformer needs a 4 ohm load. For 2 each 6L6GC tubes, the transformer needs an 8 ohm load. Even the newer 50 watt transformer from Fender would be an improvement, much more iron content than the original Deluxe O.T.
A very efficient speaker would be the 1203-8 BW, paper cone. I put one in a Pacer cabinet with an LTD 400 head a while back. That was the best sounding LTD i ever heard, I think it had better bottom than a 15" BW! It seems the smaller cab (like a Nasville 400) does well and maybe better with a 12" speaker, as opposed to a 15" speaker.
Here are some typical speaker specs I found:

SPEAKER MODEL, Celestion
V12-60
RMS Power Rating 60 Watts
Sensitivity (1W/1m) 96dB

SPEAKER MODEL
Vintage 30, Celestion
RMS Power Rating 60 Watts
Sensitivity (1W/1m) 100dB

Some speakers out there are as low as 93 db SPL!

[This message was edited by Ken Fox on 14 December 2003 at 08:06 AM.]

All other things being equal, though, "watts is king". To make a Deluxe sound like a Twin would require about 60 more watts, two 12" speakers, and a larger cabinet.

I use it for practice and VERY small rooms only with bands who play quietly, but don't consider it powerful enough for regular gigging.

What I have found re: the smaller amps is that a Deluxe (actually I have a Bassman) or the NV112 is an interesting way to get stereo without taking up too much real estate onstage. The Bassman (through a 15" BW) with a clean SS amp is a great combination.

MXR distortion plus > Boss Compressor > volume pedal > Ibanez DDL-10 > Boss RV-5 > Boss Super Chorus

I use the stereo out of the chorus to feed two amps. It is a huge sound! Having the volume pedal in the middle helps big time. My distortion and compressor get constant signal that way and are more predicitable as to their final sound.

Since Sam Ash allows money back returns for 14 days I've been doing some testing.
I've purchased both the '65 Twin and Deluxe.
There's really no question which sounds better. The Twin is much better than a standard Deluxe Reverb for PSG. The Twin has all the high end, but has much more punch on the bottom. It sounds awesome with the stock Jensens- but I've yet to have it out on a gig.

The funny thing is it's exactly the opposite with a 6 string. The Deluxe is really sweet, and the Twin sounds harsh with a 6 string.

Anybody using Vibrolux? 40 watts with 2 10's.
Does ( did) JBL make a 10?

These are:

1)We love tube amps for 6 string, because we like the way the tube distortion sounds. This is especially true for rock and blues.

2)For PSG's gennerally a cleaner sound is desired. This means that more power with no or lower distortion is desireable. In fact, a transistor amp, not distorting, is also desirable (ex:Peavey)

If you can agree with the previous assumtions, then a twin will be better for PSG compared with a deluxe. (Deluxes are so nice for six string, because they distort sooner and maybe nicer than a twin.) This is also why a relatively inexpensive Peavey transistor amp sounds great for PSG, although you probably would not like it for six string(relatively high power and low distortion). Apparently, the best twins for PSG are the 135 Watt later models with the master volume. Some minor modifacations to reduce the distortion in these amps are sometimes made for PSG use, which again is the opposite of what is normally desired for six string.

In my opinion, trying to use the same amp for six string and PSG will require comprimise.
Just my 2 cents

quote:

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In my opinion, trying to use the same amp for six string and PSG will require comprimise.

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Fred, I agree. One reason why I think the Vegas 400 is the best steel amp Peavey made is the availability of a second channel.

An instrument doubler... the picker, I mean... could use channel One for steel, and for channel Two put a sweet tube pre-amp between the guitar and the amp. That way the warm distorted signal from the pre-amp is amplified by the clean power amp of the Vegas. It still won't sound like a 1956 Fender Deluxe full on, but it is a more desireable consideration for a player wanting one amp for both purposes.

------------------
Herb's Steel Guitar Pages
Texas Steel Guitar Association

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Tim Whitlock
'58 Fender 1000, '56 Fender Stringmaster, '65 Twin Reissue, Niomi lap steel, old Magnatone tube amp.

I used a '72 Vibrolux Reverb (SFVR) for about 25 years as my primary steel Combo amp... it wouldn't cut it in today's "louder is better" climate, unless mic'd thru the PA. But it served me reasonably well. If the band was too loud for me to get by with that amp, we were too loud for most venues. When I needed to rock out, I'd bring a Bassman... or two.

IMO the Vibrolux Reverb has the perfect weight-to-power ratio for a small club gig, and a classic Fender tube amp sound, but my '68 Twin Reverb (TR) has the cojones the SFVR lacked plus it gives me A Sense of POWER in RESERVE... the SFVR had adequate power but NO reserve.

I DO like plugging the SFVR head into the 15" speaker of the TR, sounds real nice; but still not loud, and doesn't have the low end of the TR... true power will out...

Problems with JBL was burning voice coils and JBL would not warranty them to Fender so Fender paid out of pocket for reconing etc & then CBS said NO MORE.

A Super Reverb with Oxford Speakers retailed at $429.50...A Super Reverb with D 110 JBL's
retailed at $610.00. Other than the voice coil problem the additional cost was worth the price.

Say Hi to Richard Ash and Sammy when you see them.

[This message was edited by Jody Carver on 16 December 2003 at 05:04 AM.]

Floyd- awesome amp cases dude!

Guess what happened after they hooked it all up? One of the JBL's was DEAD as a doornail.

They just happened to have an EV with a HUGE magnet.
So now, I've got the 135watt Trin Reverb with one JBL and one EV.
I didn't have much of a chance to test it out yet- but I'm playing at A&M Roadhose in NYC tonight.
Trial by fire ( I did not bring an extra amp!)

I was in a rush when I picked it up- so I was only able to hear it with a tele- and it was loud as excriment- according the the guy tryimg to talk on the phone while I was testing it.

.........Listen to Ken.

[This message was edited by Jon Light on 18 December 2003 at 04:48 PM.]

wheather or not they are, is the color coding accurate ( ie are EV speakers coded red/black, and fender wires) ??

[This message was edited by David Friedlander on 18 December 2003 at 04:55 PM.]

For those of you in New York, I would reccomend a visit to "30th Street Guitars"
The owner, Matt, and his brother Ned, have an awesome selection of vintage amps.
They are NOT the typical NYC musinc store ( read- they have fair prices on vintage, and friendly service)

Not only did I get a great deal on the Twin- they offered me the opportunity to return the amp today for a refund if I wasn't happy after the gig.
The amp - well, I finally understand what my guitar should sound like with a band.
The drummer commented that it was the first time I wasn't too loud. Yep. having all the extra power allowed me to use the volume pedal with much more discretion.
I'm quite pleased to say the least.
Heavy? well the casters really help.