I’d like to give the client some specific EQ board (hz, etc.) and effects (delay, reverb) settings to at least keep in mind, and would like to hear from you studio pros. Could John Macy or anyone please chime in? Your expertise is much appreciated.

Thanks,
Drew

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The Saltines

[This message was edited by Drew Howard on 11 March 2004 at 09:04 AM.]

here is what I do..take it or leave it..

These are patches I have written for EQ and effects on the Yamaha AW2816 that I use:

Bass Q .2 ( 3:00) Freq 190 Gain 4 db

Low Mid Q 1 (12:00) Freq 275 Gain -1 db

Hi Mid Q 1 Freq 700 Gain -1

High Q 1 Freq 2.6khz Gain 2db

Notice I have pulled the mids out, just like on the Nashville series of amps..very similar.. boost the lows and the hi's..

Effects:
Delay 290 ms FB delay 10ms FB gain 20%

Reverb Early Reference Large Hall size 2.4

or Reverb Large Hall 3.2 s mix to taste

final effects mix 40-60%

Lately I have been using the Early reflection Reverb with the slight slap delay..It's growing on me..

Dynamics:

Compression
threshold 15db attack 80 ms
ratio 2:1 gain 2 - 4 db release 6ms
hard knee

Obvioulsy these are just settings that I use at home but they may be a starting point for your own..or for the engineer..your ears will be the final judge as always.

Have fun..good luck

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 11 March 2004 at 05:40 PM.]

I use a lot of compression in a mix, though not always. Just a touch on the steel, unless I am looking for something different. It can make a track sit into the mix used correctly. It is one of my favorite tools.

Reverb and delay are usually dictated by the track--sometimes I use a lot, and sometimes just a little, depending on style. Delays, tuned to the bpm, are great for adding space without the density of reverb.

You can look at it like a 3D picture--EQ give you height, panning gives you width, and delay/verb gives you depth. You just have to hope the mixer see's it that way ...

Thanks for your thoughtful replies. Tony, thanks for taking the time to key in your information. And John, I love the 3D analogy!

It's no different than an artist with finite colors here and there..the better the artist the better the picture..

Johns 3 D analogy is a very fine accurate description.

But..ya do have to start somehwere.

Have fun

t

There are those that like 800 hz boosted on their steel amps, that might be a clue, but no more.

Mix it all together and season to taste like a chef.

I also agree with John on the painting analogy.
I have always looked at a soundfield in 3 D and with colors of tone, and creating several environments of distance.

But the contents of that environment over determine how thgese elements are mixed together, and each song is a different grouping.

[This message was edited by David L. Donald on 12 March 2004 at 04:46 AM.]

Most of the time you need to take away the lows and mid/low freqs. They build up quickly.

THe other comment is that a mixer asking a Steel player what he thinks of the steel in a mix is asking for troubles!. You will always want the instrument you play to be huge and up front. In the context of the song, most of the time it needs to be small and behind other things.

I think for the most part a Steel player or a Guitar player who is very familiar with there stage set up can at least get an engineer pointed in the right direction if the question is raised, which in this case..it was..

The settings I posted above are and were intended as a starting point from zero..Thats why I posted them..and a friend, a PRO engineer from LA sent me some start up EQ and Dynamics recommendations not all that long ago as well..

For the posted settings I created them or rather edited them from stock EQ Guitar patches which were on board the Yamaha deck..but think of it this way..the on board patches were developed by "Engineers" with probably some pretty savy experience. I guess even they realize that ya gotta start somewhere.

I guess what I am saying is that folks in the know who have experience know what to do..folks not in the know like anything else need a reference point..at some point hopefully they will come to judge what is proper..or rather acceptable or pleasing as well...

So I guess I am also saying, don't be afraid to share some stock cookbook settings that you would use as a startup.. others, like me, can learn from them .

An engineer asked Drew above, if Drew does not offer him a suggestion..someone else will who may have no clue what a Steel should sound like..

just my take..

Fine comments above..

t

[This message was edited by Tony Prior on 12 March 2004 at 08:02 AM.]

My comments about an engineer asking a musician comes from this:

As a musician, I know what my setup should sound like. But if I were to solo the instrument out of the mix you would be pretty scared to hear what it really sounds like once EQ'd for the mix. This is because the Mix is a whole picture and needs everything else to support it. If I were to say we no longer need the steel guitar in this mix, I can't just mute it and leave everything else the same. Like in a picture, if I were to take scissors and cut a person out of one, there would be a hole with nothing there.

So asking a musician to be subjective on only one instrument in the mix is like your wife asking you how "she" feels she looks in a dress. We see her as the whole beautiful package, she will point out the little (or big) things like...well you know what I mean. You'll never get a responce to the total package quetion.

But in general, if the engineer capture your sound to tape accurately, once mixed it should still sound like your own tone. Because as he rolls off the lows on your steel, the lows on the bass fill in the gaps. As he scoops the mids a little the vocal fattnes appears. when he cuts the 5-7 khz on your top strings the sybalance of the vocalist becomes clear. As long as your original tone was capture it will stay in tacked with the mix.

I think a better thing for the engineer to ask is, "is what I'm getting to tape durring tracking, what you had in mind?"

Joe

good stuff..

me at my tender old age , I am re-learning again what it was I thought I knew all those years but didn't !

I have purchased some Home Study Pro recording classes along with several books and am having a great time. It's really quite amazing what just a couple of very small things can do in a very BIG WAY !!

t

Drumers are the worst at this. THey always want the drums up front. BUt listen to most mixes. Although the drums are important part of the song, most of the time they are way in the back of the mix. About the only thing that really pokes through is the snare.

Good luck on your recording endevors.

One other thing that really helps is to get the best rhythm mix that you can. The rhythm section is the foundation of the song and if that is weak the remainder won't stand up to well. A good sounding rhythim section is one where it sounds as one entity but with careful listening you can distinguish all of the instruments individually. It's tough to explain and when you understand the concept and achieve it, it becomes as clear as day.

When you have the solid rhythm section, you will be amazed at how easy the rest of the mix falls together. I never used compression in a mix; only limiting when recording instruments that might overload the tape (yeah I am that old!!!). I bothers me to hear about so much compression being used in this era of digital recording where the signal to noise ratio is wide and the dynamic range of all the instruments can be used rather than having to compromise the dr.

Hope this helps.

Example of great rhythm seciton.

Looking for Love is one.
Most Randy Travis material has smooth great rhythm sections as does Emmylou Harris.

Listen from a technical aspect to determine the timbre and blend of the rhythm section.

Hope this helps.