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Author
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Topic: Fuzz, distortion, overdrive - difference?
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David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 19 August 2004 09:05 AM
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I'm looking for some moderate grit for blues/rock on pedal steel. The number of options is baffling. I want it to be constant at any volume, not "touch sensitive." Am I looking for fuzz, distortion, or overdrive? And what should I expect the difference to be in these three types? I play a uni through a Hilton pedal and Fender tube amps that play clean throughout their volume range. I welcome any suggestions on particular devices that will work for this rig. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 19 August 2004 09:46 AM
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Aw--you're gonna get a zillion different suggestions. Any unit in all of those categories is going to be touch sensitive to some extent. This is usually considered an asset but since you specify uniformity then you would need to run it before your volume pedal. Which is what I do with my VooDoo Lab Sparkle Drive for the same reason. It's a good sounding pedal. Basically a tube screamer but it has a mixer knob that enables you to feed a clean signal back into the output, beside the standard gain knob. And with a final volume knob, it can serve as a clean boost to push your Fender input. I have no idea how the Hilton likes to be fed a hopped up signal though.This guy has a great rep:
http://www.robertkeeley.com/home.php He addresses some issues with some stock pedals, the Sparkle Drive included---there tends to be a loss of bottom and some midrange emphasis that some people don't like. I've been thinking of sending my box to him. He retrofits your pedal and also sells modded new pedals.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 19 August 2004 at 09:54 AM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 19 August 2004 10:42 AM
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Right, Jon, I'm looking for some very specific information here - not just "I use this and like it." I've used the current version of the Tube Screamer, which was okay but nothing special. I think I like something with lots of distortion in the highs, but not so much in the lows, where it gets too muddy. I currently use the fuzz amp model of my Digitech RP 100. It gets too clean at lower volumes, which is why I say I want it to be constant at any volume. Also, you can't preset the gain and volume, so you have to redial it everytime you switch from a clean preset to the fuzz preset - this is useless during a performance. I generally put the FX between the volume pedal and the amp, because these things generally don't sound very good before the volume pedal.My experience is that you can't use the sound with a six-string to predict how good something will sound for pedal steel. Consequently I think I want something with a wide variety of sounds (like two different sounds you can dial together) so I can play with it to find something that works. I'm just trying to narrow down the choices to focus on fuzz, distortion, or overdrive. But I don't know which to focus on, and it's not clear to me that there really is any uniform difference between these different types.[This message was edited by David Doggett on 19 August 2004 at 10:45 AM.] |
chas smith
Member From: Encino, CA, USA
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posted 19 August 2004 11:06 AM
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David, I have anumber of different "boxes" from Jordan to Drive-O-Matics up to the Vox AD120VTX and further up to the Metasonix Hellfire Modulator. May I suggest that you look into the Radial ToneBone Classic. It's a tube overdrive with a lot of control variables. |
Tom Gorr
Member From: Three Hills, Alberta
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posted 20 August 2004 10:43 AM
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OVERDRIVE: (Tubescreamer type) - keeps low freqs/harmonics relatively clean and dynamic, while high freqs are saturated with distortion that doesn't roll off with dynamics.DISTORTION: Sustaining, and soft clipping of all frequencies. Some dynamic response. Distortion 'cleans up' when you turn down volume. Gets more sustain and saturation when you turn up volume.
FUZZ: High amplification of original signal, then hard clip. Not particularly responsive to playing dynamics, except at point where signal almost is gone.
Perhaps a little compression before a lightly overdriven distortion is the best solution....Although compressors add a lot of noise when they are ahead of distortion pedals. |
Frank Parish
Member From: Nashville,Tn. USA
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posted 21 August 2004 07:05 AM
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I've been using the Goodrich Steel Driver II's and III's but every one I have is broke down. I do love the tone of this distortion but like to use a lot of bass with it to get the tone I'm looking for. When I was using the Emmons guitars I'd have the tone selector switch on the guitar set so when I used the Steeldriver, I'd flip the switch on the guiitar to get what I wanted. The guitar I'm using now doesn't have the tone control so that's out. After looking inside the Steeldriver III the other day I found out all of the pots inside were made by Clarastat and made in Mexico. I figure these pots are going bad like the volume pots they make and would like to go to something else in a stomp box that has a tone control so I can hit one button and be done with it. When you're using distortion for only one part of a tune you can't be turning around to adjust two amps for the tone and processors are just out of it. Got any suggestions? |
Jonathan Cullifer
Member From: Atlanta, GA
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posted 21 August 2004 09:19 AM
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If you're looking for constant distortion but adjustable volume, try putting whatever effect box you get in between your steel and volume pedal.Just a thought. Jonathan |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 21 August 2004 11:03 AM
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The dynamics of distortion are part of a good blues tone. It's cleaner at lower volumes and distorts more when you pick harder. This effect adds a lot of character to the sound, IMHO. I tend to reject distortion devices or patches that aren't touch sensitive.
Some styles of rock (metal, punk) aren't very dynamic. A constant fuzz effect might work for them, but they don't really lend themselves to steel very easily. They tend to concentrate on arm motion rather than finger motion - brute force. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 23 August 2004 12:56 PM
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Thanks for the suggestions. It looks like I want a fuzz box with a lot of controls. Jonathan, whenever I have tried an effects unit in front of my Hilton pedal, it has not sounded right, too puny. b0b, the problem I have with "touch sensitive" distortion or overdrive is that my blues band has a lot of volume changes, as different players come in or out, and as the tempo and mood changes from song to song. When I get a good distortion dialed in on a loud passage or song, it gets too clean when things get quieter. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 23 August 2004 01:17 PM
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I believe you understand this, David, so I'm not trying to insult your intelligence----look at reviews and ads for any of the distortion and fuzz units and you will see statements like "...and it cleans up beautifully when you roll back the guitar volume knob..."
This is a selling point. Overdrive----Tom Gorr's explanation is more than I knew. Thanks, Tom. I found that my Sparkle Drive does clean up when backing off the vol. pedal when it's after the pedal in the chain.
I simply don't know a thing about putting stuff in front of a Hilton. But it works real well in front of a passive pedal. I clip it to steel leg and have easy access to the controls. One possibility? An A/B from steel output to A) Hilton to amp B) effect box to another amp input or channel with volume control at your fingertips. You can listen to some sound clips here:
http://www.tonefrenzy.com/2/5gear.htm There's a trillion flavors out there. |
Scott Houston
unregistered
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posted 23 August 2004 02:43 PM
"I like something with lots of distortion in the highs, but not so much in the lows, where it gets too muddy."David-There are several bass pedals that work on this principle. I use a Boss ODB-3 that lets you engage in the fuzziness just in the higher frequencies while leaving the bottom alone. Works nicely on the bass, never tried it on steel though. Might be worth looking into. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 23 August 2004 03:18 PM
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Something like a Line6 POD or a DigiTech Genesis 3 offers a lot of different kinds of distortion effects. They cost more than your average stomp box, but you can probably find several different tones that you like and switch between them at will. |
Tom Gorr
Member From: Three Hills, Alberta
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posted 23 August 2004 10:10 PM
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"Grit" comes from Tube Power Amp distortion (cross over distortion). Fuzz, etc. from Preamp clipping / distortion. Try out a Peavey Classic 30 or Delta Blues etc. ! The Classic 30I tried had awesome 'grit'. You could mike it up and send through PA. Besides - a top drawer guitar amp.
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Ben Slaughter
Member From: Madera, California
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posted 24 August 2004 09:39 AM
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Line 6 also makes a distortion modeler, called the DM-4. Not cheap but I've heard people really dig the tones. It would model a lot of the vintage boxes. |
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