Steel Guitar Strings
Strings & instruction for lap steel, Hawaiian & pedal steel guitars
http://SteelGuitarShopper.com
Ray Price Shuffles
Classic country shuffle styles for Band-in-a-Box, by BIAB guru Jim Baron.
http://steelguitarmusic.com

This Forum is CLOSED.
Go to bb.steelguitarforum.com to read and post new messages.


  The Steel Guitar Forum
  Electronics
  direct boxes

Post New Topic  
your profile | join | preferences | help | search

next newest topic | next oldest topic
Author Topic:   direct boxes
Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 30 September 2004 08:12 PM     profile     
Does anyone have experience with the quality of the Samson S-Direct d.i. box? Are active boxes like this really any better than a passive transformer, if the purpose is simply to go from an unbalanced high-impedance source to a balanced, low-impedance line (e.g. going direct from volume pedal to board, possibly through a snake)? If not, what's a good transformer, or passive d.i. box?
James Quackenbush
Member

From: Pomona, New York, USA

posted 01 October 2004 06:58 AM     profile     
Jack,
You can't go wrong here .....
http://www.radialeng.com/dis.htm
Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 01 October 2004 07:41 AM     profile     
Ditto what James says. The Radial is a very nice passive box using the Jensen transformer. The Jensen is THE best transformer for that application. Another approach would be to purchase a cheap passive DI for like $30, rip out the crappy transformer and install a raw Jensen. That could save you about $75. But that Radial stuff seems to be right on the money.

Brad Sarno

John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 01 October 2004 08:58 AM     profile     
I like the transformers best myself, including mic pres. The Radials are great with the Jensens. I have some custom Jeson boxes I like a lot, along with some custom active transformerless that are nice also. I love the Avalon U5--the best on bass that there is out there by far... Cheap DI boxes sound like, well, cheap DI boxes .
Earnest Bovine
Member

From: Los Angeles CA USA

posted 01 October 2004 10:43 AM     profile     
John M
Did you try your steel guitar thru the Avalon U5?
John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 01 October 2004 11:06 AM     profile     
Yea, it sounds good. But if I'm going to have to go direct, I usually come out of the Mesa Pre into a Neve.
Earnest Bovine
Member

From: Los Angeles CA USA

posted 01 October 2004 11:11 AM     profile     
John
Do you like any preamp between the pickup and the volume pedal?
John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 01 October 2004 12:51 PM     profile     
No, though Brad's Black Box is on my list of acquisitions (but microphones keep getting in the way... ).
Kevin Chriss
Member

From: Westfield, IN, USA

posted 02 October 2004 07:58 AM     profile     
I just bought a direct box that I am super impressed with. A little pricey at $125, but this is what you get:

Preamp and DI box combined
Input gain control
Balanced XLR output
1/4" out for sending signal to stage amp
Both stage and PA outputs have their own level controls
Parallel input jack for a tuner
Effects loop
Powered by 48V phantom power or 9v battery
Active bass and treble EQ
Mid-dip shape control permits removal of mids
Notch filter permits dialing out feedback

I haven't tried it with steel yet, but I use it with my keyboard sound module that only has a -10db output. It sounds great and the shape filter really works good. Oh, the name of this unit is UltraSound PDI.

ajm
Member

From: Los Angeles

posted 02 October 2004 09:28 AM     profile     
From my experience the term "direct box" is used to describe several types of devices made for different applications.

From my experience hooking one up between guitar and amp like you're describing here won't hurt anything no matter what you use. But be sure you know exactly what you're doing if you plan on hooking one up between amp and speaker.

------------------
Artie McEwan

Steve Hinson
Member

From: Hendersonville Tn USA

posted 02 October 2004 01:33 PM     profile     
I just got an Ampeg SVT direct box...it has a tube in it and sounds great...a bass player I work with in the studio quite a bit claims it is the best direct box he has ever used...
Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 02 October 2004 06:35 PM     profile     
Well, cast your bread upon the waters! A few different perspectives are popping up here. Avalon and Neve are names to conjur by, as for recording pres, but my own immediate purpose is to go from an acoustic instrument pickup with no, or a hi-z output preamp, or from the volume pedal for my PSG, into a Mackie 1604-VLZ for live performance purposes. The Jensen transformer sounds like the essential ingredient I am looking for, whether as a retrofit or in those nice-looking Radial boxes. Being a cheap Yankee, I might buy still buy something cheaper and swap out the transformer. However, I don't want a crummy op amp in the path, if that's a consequence of taking the low road.

Of course, although I didn't mention it, there is a Black Box between my pickup and my pedal -- John, microphones are a constant temptation, but get your BB. There's not much point in putting a crappy signal into that Mesa, or Avalon or Neve!

[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 02 October 2004 at 06:39 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 02 October 2004 at 06:40 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 03 October 2004 at 04:37 AM.]

[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 03 October 2004 at 04:37 AM.]

John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 02 October 2004 06:54 PM     profile     
Hey Steve--what's the model number on that? It sounds real interesting. (hope you're doing well by the way .

Jack--you couldn't get a crappy sound out of a Fessenden on a real bad day...

Mike Simpson
Member

From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA

posted 02 October 2004 08:31 PM     profile     
Has anyone used the Behringer Ultra DI?

When looking at the radial DI boxes what are the pros and cons of active vs passive?
Will the active box work as a passive if no power is supplied?

Or

Is the active mainly needed to power long cable runs?

Thanks
Big Mike

[This message was edited by Mike Simpson on 02 October 2004 at 08:37 PM.]

Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 03 October 2004 04:39 AM     profile     
John, you can't get a crappy sound out of a lot of good axes (my Williams being another such), but it's easy to mess up after that....

[This message was edited by Jack Anderson on 03 October 2004 at 04:41 AM.]

James Quackenbush
Member

From: Pomona, New York, USA

posted 03 October 2004 09:50 AM     profile     
Mike,
Here's something taken from the Whirlwind sit e

"An advantage of using an active circuit is that it can be fine-tuned to produce a wider frequency response than can be achieved with an entirely passive DI. However, active DIs require a power source - phantom power from the mixer or internal batteries."

As far as long cable run's go, the XLR balanced output is what allows you to run cables a long distance....The passive DI with the Jensen built in, not only gives you phase protection, but has a balanced output that will allow you to run a cable to the mixer 1000 ft with no audible distortion ( if the cable is in good shape )
The Jensen transformers have been used for YEAR's with great result's ...

NEVE PRE'S ....Now we're talkin some BIG recording tone , at a BIG recording price !!!... As nice as it comes !!....Jim

[This message was edited by James Quackenbush on 03 October 2004 at 09:51 AM.]

Mike Simpson
Member

From: Gilbert, Arizona, USA

posted 03 October 2004 01:02 PM     profile     
Thanks James,
I have the Ultra DI but have had problems with house sound men when using it. I don't have any problem when using my own sound system with a mackie 20ch board. On some gigs I use the direct box between my guitar and the amp using the pass through to the amp so the FOH sound can draw from the XLR output, this works well on acoustic guitar in large venues. I have been considering buying a good passive DI, the Radials are on ebay for $179 BIN with free shipping.

Thanks again

------------------
Big Mike
http://www.blueswizards.net

Jack Anderson
Member

From: Scarborough, ME

posted 03 October 2004 01:48 PM     profile     
John, I just checked out your website -- how do you find your way around that (those) board(s): using a GPS?
John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 03 October 2004 03:28 PM     profile     
That is an 80 input SSL 9000J console--gotta be around 16' (or more) wide. A motorized chair would be nice...
Steve Hinson
Member

From: Hendersonville Tn USA

posted 04 October 2004 02:06 PM     profile     
John...that Ampeg DI is the SVTDI...hope you are well and busy...take care...Steve
James Quackenbush
Member

From: Pomona, New York, USA

posted 05 October 2004 11:37 AM     profile     
John,
I see you're still using Paris Pro ...Great sound !!....If you want a similar sound, and feel like upgradeing , check out Radar ...Very analogish !!.....Jim
John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 05 October 2004 01:15 PM     profile     
I've done several projects on Radar and it does sound great. However, I am doing more and more in the box mixing, and Paris is the only system that does that well. It's summing in the stereo buss absolutely smokes ProTools and anything else out there. I have two systems and use them all the time...
Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 05 October 2004 01:53 PM     profile     
John, I have basically no experience working in Paris, but I have a mastering client who recently brought me some mixes from his Paris rig. The first ones came in too loud and squashed and I asked him what he used to get that loud. He said Paris will let you push it like that. I had him back it down to better levels for me to work with. I couldn't believe how analog and natural the mixes sounded. The overs were handled in a way that sounded more like tape saturation or tube compression than overs. I don't know what Paris does on their master bus, but it sounded great to my ear. Plus his mix was only 16bit. I was very impressed with Paris. I agree it sounded much better than the PT mixes I generally hear.

Brad Sarno
Blue Jade Audio Mastering
St. Louis, MO

John Macy
Member

From: Denver, CO USA

posted 05 October 2004 02:51 PM     profile     
Brad,

My mastering guy in Nashville (Randy LeRoy) has been saying that too. He thinks the depth and imaging are amazing in the system, and there is nothing else close when mixing in the box. My ProTools clients are stunned when they transfer their wavs into the system to mix. I don't know what they did either, but it works big time for me...

Michael Brebes
Member

From: Northridge CA

posted 07 October 2004 12:21 PM     profile     
Another option for direct box is to use a Peterson Strobo Stomp as your tuner. It has a direct out XLR on it as well.
Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 07 October 2004 03:13 PM     profile     
Yea John, it's funny that ProTools became the studio standard. It's really not that great. Not bad, but not that special either.

Brad

James Quackenbush
Member

From: Pomona, New York, USA

posted 07 October 2004 03:45 PM     profile     
Brad,
You can FLY around using Pro Tools, and there are plenty of bells and whistles, and much support for it ...There is so many pluggin's ,and so much outboard gear that get's plugged into, or out of, Pro Tools to make it sound 1/2 way decent ..If it were not for the speed, and the support, there would be a lot fewer people using it ...When knocking out CD's , it's how fast you can get it done...Sound quality went out the window in most cases... "Get it done, get it done !!" ....Jim
T. C. Furlong
Member

From: Vernon Hills, Illinois, USA

posted 07 October 2004 05:58 PM     profile     
Hey,

What do you guys think about the idea of ProTools tracking sessions versus traditional multitrack (Hard Disk or tape)with an analog in-line console? There is certainly a group of producers and engineers who feel that non-linear, super flexible, fly around, recording has all but ruined music performance in modern recording. My thought is that a group of musicians tracking the final product, all in a room is really something special and not happening nearly as often as it used to.

Also, Radial D.I's are cool. I always default to the isolation a transformer provides. My experience is, if you have an instrument with transient low end (like an electric bass), lots of iron is good...big heavy transformer. Years ago, my friend built a giant transformer DI, like 10 Lbs. worth, and gave it to Bruce Swedien. I think that he may have used it on Thriller or another MJ record. I remember that he loved it.

If you have an instrument like steel, a good transformer works really well. I even like the ProCo DB-1. Not too expensive and a decent transformer.

TC

Dave Van Allen
Member

From: Doylestown, PA , US , Earth

posted 08 October 2004 12:12 PM     profile     
quote:
t's funny that ProTools became the studio standard.

kinda like VHS vs Beta... Beta was the superior platform, but VHS out numbered 'em

it's not the quality of the widget that determines who wins, it's who controls the marketplace...

[This message was edited by Dave Van Allen on 08 October 2004 at 12:13 PM.]

Larry R
Member

From: Navasota, Tx.

posted 13 October 2004 10:38 AM     profile     
The Beringer D1 is a great piece of equpt. I've been very pleased with it. Very well built and very good quality.

[This message was edited by Larry R on 13 October 2004 at 10:39 AM.]

ajm
Member

From: Los Angeles

posted 13 October 2004 05:38 PM     profile     
FWIW, over on Harmony Central under the user reviews for the Rockman, there is a guy who used two of the Behringer DI boxes to record a Rockman in stereo and he was quite ecstatic about it. He went into his set up in detail. Someone here may want to try it with a Rockman or similar processor.

------------------
Artie McEwan

Will Holtz
Member

From: San Francisco, California, USA

posted 13 October 2004 09:02 PM     profile     
I'm surprised no one has mentioned the Countryman DI. I have never heard a steel through one, but they are one of the most common DI boxes in live sound reinforcement and get great reviews for use with other instruments. Built like a tank too!
Darvin Willhoite
Member

From: Leander, Tx. USA

posted 14 October 2004 06:21 AM     profile     
I use a Countryman DI at the Church where I play. It is an active box and as Will said it is built like a tank. I use phantom power for mine so I don't have to worry about batteries. I use a Digitech 2112 preamp/effects unit then go into the Countryman. I use in-ear monitors with my mix coming off the main board. We have a monitor board but I don't trust the monitor engineer to give me a good mix. My Son runs the main board and he knows what I want. I don't use an amp. I put the Countryman in the bottom of my rack case and put an XLR output on the side of the case. It makes a clean setup and it works great for me.

------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording


Brad Sarno
Member

From: St. Louis, MO USA

posted 14 October 2004 07:25 AM     profile     
The Countryman has been THE standard for years. Very simple, reliable, rugged, and best of all, it uses a FET for a nice warm and clear tone. For an active DI, it's pretty darn nice. I generally prefer a passive DI with a Jensen transformer. Pretty incredible sounding those Jensens.

Brad Sarno

All times are Pacific (US)

next newest topic | next oldest topic

Administrative Options: Close Topic | Archive/Move | Delete Topic
Post New Topic  
Hop to:

Contact Us | The Pedal Steel Pages

Note: Messages not explicitly copyrighted are in the Public Domain.

Powered by Infopop www.infopop.com © 2000
Ultimate Bulletin Board 5.46

Our mailing address is:
The Steel Guitar Forum
148 South Cloverdale Blvd.
Cloverdale, CA 95425 USA

Support the Forum