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Author
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Topic: Product review: Crate micro head
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Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 07 June 2005 01:48 PM
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OK, I said I'd report so here goes.Crate PowerBlock CPB150
http://www.crateamps.com/html/series.cfm?sid=15 Bought from http://www.samedaymusic.com for $200, free shipping, upgraded to 2 day shipping for $2, net $202. Oh, chef of the future, can it core a apple? No. Can I use it for a lunchbox? No. It's too small. I've been auditioning it, Carter 12 string into EH Holy Grail reverb into Crate, into Marrs cab w/ Weber Cali 15". One of the first headroom/harmonic distortion tests I always do is pick strings 4 & 5 at the 15th fret and slowly depress the A pedal. If there is that low descending contrary motion ghost tone then I know the amp is unable to keep up, cleanly, with rich harmonic conent (but that doesn't disqualify an amp--my Deluxe Reverb can't do that cleanly and my Dual Showman just barely can.)
Surprisingly, the Crate doesn't do too poorly. But I think part of the reason is that the distortion is hidden somewhat by the overall distortion floor. The sound is not pristine. Not hairy but just a little less than transparent. But not ugly. Although it can be a little harsh on the high end, it's not terrible. The only way to get into the kind of volume you would expect from 150 watts, though, you have to crank the gain and then we are getting pretty dirty. Which leaves the question of how much really usable volume this can deliver. I'm going to have to mess with this some before I can get a good feel for the answer. I have to say that I am impressed with this little thing. It is going to be a tough decision as to whether to keep it or return it. I'm going to try some different configurations, try the Pod 2.3 in front of it, see if it can make itself useful. Hey--who wouldn't want a decent and usable micro rig for certain occasions? How usable? Time will tell. This sucker won't knock anyone out with its sound. But maybe it will be just good enough. Review will be continued as I find anything to add.  |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 07 June 2005 02:30 PM
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I remember the specs saying that it had 10% THD at full rated output. I thought to myself "That can't be good...". Solid state distortion never sounds good to me. |
Dean Parks
Member From: Sherman Oaks, California, USA
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posted 07 June 2005 06:42 PM
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Jon-If you don't mind, try the Pod into the "effects return" jacks (bypassing the tone controls) and see how it performs as a power amp. Bobby... I'm hoping the 10% THD is in the preamp, not power amp. -dean- |
Jerry Knapper
Member From: Roland, OK, USA
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posted 07 June 2005 08:10 PM
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I hooked both a single 10 and a 12 U through the CPB150 to see what the differences would be. Like most crate amps, I was not impressed with the steel sound through it on either. Next, I took a GFX1000 effects processor and hooked it in through the effects loop ( mono ). It made a consideralble difference in the overall performance.
I also used the single 12 celestion loaded cab that crate offers with it. It sounded pretty bad to me.
Next, I hooked two 4X12 Mesa cabs to it and had all that I would ever want. It sounded warmer and much like an older Marshall head. Later I will hook it through two JBLs that I use to use with a rack and try that.
Believe there is a tube similating chip in the front end of this power amp like used in the other crate amps to warm up the sound and make it "emotionally active".
I have worked with Crate for some time to get them to build a good steel amp, but to no avail, although the new owners may open the door to such and idea. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 08 June 2005 01:02 PM
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Well, I came home today really jazzed about messing with the Pod only to discover that the AC adapter is MIA. I'm totally pissed. Can't for the life of me remember when's the last time I used the Pod (quite some time ago) or where.
So thing are on hold. But I'm encouraged by your report, Jerry. |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 08 June 2005 02:48 PM
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OK. Let me tell you how I found the power cord for my pod--it's a real long story and you will find it very entertaining.........nah.I'm just giving impressions as they come to me. Maybe I'll change my mind later. Tough. There is a real difference, as Jerry has attested, above, between using this as a full head and using it just as a power amp, bypassing the preamp. More headroom, more clean. Overall, I find the sound to still be a little murky, lacking sparkle. But just a little. I'll have to do some A/B comparisons with my Mosvalve 1160 to refresh my ear memory of that real good sounding power amp. I also need to get a reality check on volume--for 150 watts, I'm surprised that this is not louder. The Mosvalve (100 watts, mono) will set me straight about this. I would not hesitate to use this rig---Pod2/Crate/Marrs cab w/15" Weber Cali on any occasion that the compactness is a major concern or benefit. I do think there are sonic compromises and I would choose other rigs, for sure, over this when I'm not concerned with the size thing. But I am declaring this to be a viable option with acceptable sound.
Probably gonna keep it.
More reports if and when. Now, about that power adaptor. You know that two space rack case that I keep over behind the.......... edited to clarify----I am running the Pod into the mono effect insert, bypassing the front panel so the guitar is plugged into the Pod, the Pod into the Crate effects insert.[This message was edited by Jon Light on 08 June 2005 at 02:57 PM.] |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 08 June 2005 02:49 PM
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Or you could get one of these:
http://www.fender.com/products/search.php?partno=2282000000
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Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 09 June 2005 01:13 PM
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David--that is so me.Here's todays' assessment but first a disclaimer-----I am not looking for anyone to care in the least about my life, my experiments, my interests. I am reporting here solely for the purpose of providing my hands-on impressions of a product that may or may not interest others out there. This here isn't about me. It's about the Crate.
But enough about the Crate. Let's talk about me. I A/B'd the Crate and the Mosvalve, running the Pod2 into each, respectively, out to the same Cali speaker in the Marrs cab.
Hands down, the Mosvalve is sweeter and glassier. It's just a better sounding amp. But I still don't reject the Crate. It doesn't sound like junk.
But I have come to the realization that in a two space soft rack case, the Mosvalve is pretty light, compact, and shoulder-strap-able. So if I am carrying a Pod, a power amp and a speaker cab, I'm not gaining much in portability with the Crate so it isn't earning its keep. The only way the Crate has value is if it can perform as a stand alone head with only an outboard reverb as an essential add-on. So I'm back to auditioning it in this capacity alone. Right now I'm impressed that it can do a decent enough job. I've got a few weeks left in the return window with the retailer so I'll try not to spill beer on it while I continue to evaluate. |
Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 01 April 2006 04:30 AM
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Jon,what did you ever decide about this amp?I just brought one home for"evaluation"...------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 01 April 2006 05:36 AM
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Steve---I kept it. Used it on 3-4 coffee house sized duet jobs. I've got it shoe-horned on a small pedalboard with a Holy Grail in the FX loop. Marrs cab with Weber 15" speaker.  
It's cool having the VP on the board for quick setup on a 5 act 40 minute set get on/get off situation. After these photos I somehow managed to fit a Rotosphere on there.
What I have come to feel is that for this type of gig, my SF Deluxe Reverb can cover the job, is lightweight and sounds so much better that I have retired the Crate for the time being. It did the job pretty well and I will continue to give it a thumbs-up but it sounds "acceptable", not "excellent". I was not using it with a Pod or any other preamp, BTW. Sometimes a graphic or parametric eq stomp box was in the loop. Incidentally--it is not very loud if you keep it clean. Those advertised watts are spec'd at, I think, 10% distortion. Yes, if you want to grind you can get loud but the volume where you start bumping into its headroom ceiling is modest. If I were going direct out of the Crate into a house system then I could lose the speaker cab and gain a more practical portable urban alternative but I hate going direct. I absolutely must have control, at least, of an amp at my side for monitoring. So the benefits, for my usage, are few.
I guess it all depends on how and why you are planning on using it as to whether it's a keeper or not. I know that some guitarists are thrilled with it as an emergency backup on gigs. |
Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 01 April 2006 05:54 AM
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I wonder if I used an Alembic F2-B as a preamp...------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 01 April 2006 06:33 AM
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For a tiny studio or practice amp, I use a ZVex Nano head plugged into a 1x12 Celestion Greenback cabinet:  1/2 watt of TUBE power. No headroom, but at low volume it plays clean really well, and has that organic tube-amp feel. Quite a few tonal variations with the switches. It also fits on a pedalboard, a real advantage - it's the same size as the old MXR's like the Dynacomp, and the other ZVex pedals. I can work live simply by miking thye cab and/or splitting the signal to a tube direct box (but not my first choice - miking alone is much preferred) And for guitar it sounds amazing through a 4x12 1/2 stack cabiinet![This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 01 April 2006 at 06:34 AM.] [This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 01 April 2006 at 06:36 AM.] |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 01 April 2006 06:34 AM
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I'm trying to figure if you are serious or not....I mean, if you are going to use a rack unit (and a great one at that) then how do you figure to use a practical but inferior power amp behind it, as long as you already have a rack involved? I am guessing you are kidding......? |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 01 April 2006 02:13 PM
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Jon,
You are thinking like a New Yorker with gigs ! The deal here is to fit everything in the trunk of a cab and then make it into the club in one trip without blowing out your back.------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website 
[This message was edited by Bob Hoffnar on 01 April 2006 at 02:14 PM.]
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Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 24 April 2006 07:09 PM
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Jon,I finally had time to plug a Telecaster into this thing early this morning...I thought it sounded really good and had plenty of power...I plugged the Crate into a Pacific cabinet with a D-120 in it...I am going to mike it up this week and see what it sounds like recorded...I was serious about the Alembic...it might help,and it ain't very heavy...------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
John McClung
Member From: Los Angeles, CA, USA
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posted 24 April 2006 10:40 PM
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Jon,
After seeing the pic of your mutt pedalboard, I want to challenge Mike Perlowin to post pix of his "Mighty Steel Leg of Multi FX" on this thread. It rivals yours for Rube Goldberg looks!  Lest you think I'm making TOO much fun of you, I myself have two dinky little particle board pedalboards for various playing situations. It works. But I love your Holy Grail mounted on its side; it just stays on for eternity, right? ------------------
E9 lessons
Mullen D-12/Carter SD-10/Webb amp/Profex II+Lexicon MPX-110 OR Line 6 Pod XT |
Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 25 April 2006 05:21 AM
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Well,the Crate sounds GREAT with the steel...I'm taking it on a live gig this weekend for the final test...I used the Hilton pedal...my Goodrich was out in the truck and due to my advanced age,I elected to go with what was available...I can't say that I'll get rid of everything else,but it is a very useful alternative...and it will fit in the Stingray... ------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 25 April 2006 11:59 AM
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cool Steve. Glad to hear it works for you. I'm absurdly fickle so my gig-rigs change like the weather. I became disenchanted with the Crate after a few shows but it's not fair to put anything up against my deluxe reverb.
The Crate is absolutely good enough for any of my gigs (that don't require the big horsepower rigs)--the bands I'm playing with or people I'm accompanying will never have a complaint with it. It just isn't as sweet or harmonically pleasing as my other amps. Some days good enough is good enough. Other days anything less than super tone really pisses me off--you know how it goes.Yeah, John--I don't know that I've ever actually turned off the Holy Grail. Can you do that? |
Thomas Bancroft
Member From: Matawan, New Jersey, USA
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posted 28 April 2006 11:13 AM
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Jon,Make sure Skippy doesn't trip on all that stuff. Pretty soon you'll be able to take the subway to gigs! ------------------
Mullen D-10, Melobar Rattler, Nashville 1000, Alesis Midiverb, Too Many Guitars! |
Len Amaral
Member From: Rehoboth,MA 02769
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posted 28 April 2006 11:20 AM
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I read the article in GP regarding this amp. Are you able to use 4 ohm speakers with this amp or only 8 ohm in stereo? |
Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 28 April 2006 12:00 PM
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Thomas--I came closer to that nightmare than I like to think---after 9-11 I couldn't drive to weekly band reheasals into Manhattan (the bridges were closed) for a number of weeks (my mind is kind of blurred about those days and I can't recall the details too well) so I was taking my steel & accessories on the subway, but without an amp. Not the least bit of fun. But it's good to know it is do-able.Len--this requires an 8ohm speaker, mono (150W), or a pair of 4ohm speakers, stereo (75W/side). |
Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 28 April 2006 01:55 PM
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Jon...I A-B'd the Crate with some"other amps"and there was little difference...I can't use a Fender tube amp with any live band in Nashville-they all play too loud,so those are removed from the equation...and as I said,the Crate will fit in the Stingray...very important on a beautiful spring day...------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
Bob Hempker
Member From: Hollister, Mo.
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posted 29 April 2006 09:54 AM
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I have the Crate hooked up to a cabinet with a 1501 BW. It seems to work fine, but I haven't taken it out on a job, yet. It sounds fine in the house. An electrronics tech told me that it wouldn't hurt to use a 4 ohm speaker with it bridged mono. It seems to sound fine. I compared it to my Evans preamp,and it sounds every bit as good to me.------------------
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Jon Light
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 29 April 2006 10:36 AM
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That's great, Steve. And I fully accept those other parts of the equation (stingray, spring day, amp stowed in the glove compartment....)Bob--I am NOT a tech and I bring nothing to this discussion except for what I've read or been told. I was interested in running mono, bridged, into a 4 ohm speaker and I wrote to Crate and here was their response:
quote:
No, the amp should not be run into a 4 ohm load mono bridged. You can use each side at 4 ohms, but not the mono output. Thank you for choosing Crate!
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Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 29 April 2006 10:57 AM
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I saw Fred Newell at the Opry last night and he mentioned that he had been told the same thing...not to use a 4 ohm speaker with the switch in bridged position...which is fine by me because my two lightest cabs are both 8 ohms...now I need to find a tiny little cabinet that will fit...well,you know...------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage [This message was edited by Steve Hinson on 29 April 2006 at 10:59 AM.]
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David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 29 April 2006 01:40 PM
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Steve, no need to remove Fender tubers from the equation. Get you a Super Twin Reverb, and put it in a Dual Showman Reverb head cab. Mine weights 50 lbs., and will fit in a Stingray (not that I have one). As a 4 ohm amp, it will work perfect with those two 8 ohm cabs run in parallel (plug a y connector into the speaker jack, and plug the two cabs into the Y connector). It is way louder than a NV400, and I figure it is about as loud as a NV1000. You just have to be sure to plug a footswitch into the boost jack and turn it on. The default without a foot switch plugged in is no-boost, which is about as loud as regular Twin.But as long as people are looking for small light solid states, check out the new Fender Jazzmaster Ultralight - 250 watts, 7.6 lbs. There's a review in the June Guitar Player mag. ------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards |
Steve Hinson
Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
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posted 30 April 2006 04:30 AM
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David,I have several Fender tube amp heads...I just got rid of a Tone Master-it was REAL loud,but I never could get enough clean headroom out of a Fender...tried for years...still got a Twin head,Showman head,Bassman heads,Pro Reverb,etc...------------------
http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 30 April 2006 06:21 PM
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I had the same problem. The late silverfaces with the ultralinear transformer play clean all the way to the top. But blackfaces and silverfaces that techs have attempted to "blackface" don't have much clean headroom. But even my 135 watt silverface Twin was not loud enough for one group of rockers I play with. I got a Super Twin Reverb, and that problem was cured. And it is clean all the way to the top.------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards |
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