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Author
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Topic: Anyone Using A Graphic EQ When Playing?
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Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 19 October 2005 11:13 AM
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I have been trying to get rid of some of the highs on my steel. My lows and mids sound fine to me but the highs are at times too shrill. I have tried different amp settings that have not satisfied my ears. My question is do any of you guys and gals use an EQ with your rig while playing? Would an EQ help on getting the highs to a satisfactory setting for me? If so what would you recommend and what price range would I be looking at? I also use a Matchbox and I get the same problem with or without the Matchbox. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. |
Cliff Kane
Member From: Long Beach, CA
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posted 19 October 2005 12:30 PM
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Try the Boss Graphic EQ, I think it's called the GE-7. This is pretty versatile, and it will work as a clean boost pedal, too. I think they're about $80 (?). I've heard that people use these pedals to get a Dobro-like tone from a pedal steel guitar, though I've not tired it. For sure you can use it to shelf your highs.[This message was edited by Cliff Kane on 19 October 2005 at 12:33 PM.] |
mtulbert
Member From: Plano, Texas 75023
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posted 19 October 2005 01:09 PM
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Paul,If your highs are shrill you could be having a zing problem with your high strings. This will add shrillness to those higher notes...Do a couple of searches on the forum ( I believe that there is a recent post about this). Make sure that this is not the problem before going the eq route. Just another thing to check out....sigh regards, Mark T. |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 19 October 2005 02:49 PM
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Mark, I did a search and I did not find anything about a zing problem. Can you tell me what it is you are referring too? |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 19 October 2005 03:14 PM
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Before you go to great expense, try using a very long (20' or more), cheap guitar cord from your volume pedal to your amp. Low quality cords have enough capacitance to act as a low-pass filter. They bleed off the high frequencies that are annoying you.
By the way, the purpose of a Matchbox is to preserve the high frequencies by lowering the impedence. Sounds like you don't need it at all.
Are you using an active volume pedal? If so, you might consider switching to a pot pedal for a more mellow sound.[This message was edited by b0b on 19 October 2005 at 03:19 PM.] |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 19 October 2005 03:16 PM
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What amp are you using? And do you have any effects in line between the guitar and amp? |
John Macy
Member From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 19 October 2005 06:52 PM
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I have a GE7 on my pedal board, in front of the volume pedal (along with a brobox) for any little tweaks I need depending on the room. Sometimes it's in, sometimes not, but really nice to have... I put it and the bro before the volume pedal cause they are both a bit noisy  . |
James Marlowe
Member From: Lakeland, Florida, USA
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posted 19 October 2005 07:30 PM
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I have a GE7 in my set up. I found that by cutting all the eq's back except for the middle one (I forget which band that is) and you can get somewhat of a Dobro effect. Makes an interesting sound.
james |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 19 October 2005 07:40 PM
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I use a Nashville 112 amp and an Alesis Quadraverb. I have taken the matchbox out of play and it helps but the highs are still too bright. I think the EQ would help and I am leaning that way. Someone mentioned something about a zing but I have no idea what they were talking about. At any rate I will have to do something to solve the problem. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 19 October 2005 11:16 PM
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Add a little capacitor across the output jack of your guitar. |
Mark Fasbender
Member From: Salt Lake City,Utah
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posted 19 October 2005 11:41 PM
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Try picking more on the sides of the fingerpicks. This helps fatten my tone.------------------
Got Twang ? Mark
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Kevin Ruddell
Member From: Toledo Ohio USA
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posted 20 October 2005 03:05 AM
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I have this shrill treble problem also and used to use a Boss or Urei Graphic but the better solution was a Tech 21 Acoustic DI. It's an active 3 band EQ direct box w/ sweepable mid boost/cut that was designed by a musician and is made in the USA. It has a built in effects loop and XLR direct out and runs forever on a nine volt batterry. I also used to use it to great effect with an piezo pickup equipped acoustic bass . Also works well w/ mandolin , gtr, dobro etc. I back my volume knob off some too as a treble cut off sorts |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 20 October 2005 03:12 AM
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I can't imagine not being able to get the highs out with that amp. I can make my Franklin sound all bassy if I want to. If you can't get it out with the EQ in the amp, I don't see where an outboard EQ will. |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 20 October 2005 04:08 AM
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I have a Boss GE-7, a similar DOD FX40 that I got for $25 on the forum, and a stereo 15-band EQ in my rack rig, and they are very helpful to me. Amplifier tone controls each affect a fairly wide range of the spectrum, while a GE lets you zero in on the specific frequencies that you want to cut or enhance. I also use the little stompbox EQ's to tame and control the sounds of other effects - if you put one either before or after an overdrive, you gain a much greater amount of control over it, and putting one before a wah-wah lets you shape the curve of the frequencies and cut off the high end shriek without having to reset your amp. An EQ will do exactly what you're looking for as far as taming the high end, I think. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 20 October 2005 07:35 AM
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A couple of other thoughts. 1. Could it be the pickup in the guitar? Some pickups, such as the Lawrence 710, if it's too close to the strings can lost body and have a lot of highs. A defective pickup could also have similar characteristics. 2. Have you tried connecting the guitar directly to the amp - no volume pedal, matchbox, effects, etc. And, what kind of guitar and pickup is this? |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 20 October 2005 08:45 AM
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I'm with Jack on this one. Just turn the treble control down a couple of numbers and play the thing! (If the amp has a "mid" control, turn that down as well.) |
Larry Strawn
Member From: Golden Valley, Arizona, USA
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posted 20 October 2005 09:08 AM
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I have a Dan-Electro stomp-box e-q in my board, like David said , to mainly control, and tame the effects. I can usually compensate for over-all tone in different rooms with the highs, and mids on my amp though.Larry[This message was edited by Larry Strawn on 20 October 2005 at 09:10 AM.] |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 20 October 2005 09:29 AM
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I have one of these "Fishman Pro EQ Platinum Acoustic Preamp, EQ and DI" units for my acoustic: http://www.zzounds.com/item--FSMPEQP
I was going to pick up a GE-7, but will give this thing a try.
Reason... I recently picked up a '79 Deluxe that is really bright for steel, and with only treble and bass knobs, I thought an EQ would make a nice addition to tonal variation possibilities.
Anyone use a Fishman like this with steel?
Any technical reasons why it would work better or worse than a GE-7?
I'll try it on a gig tomorrow night.
Maybe I can save myself 79 bucks.
[This message was edited by Pete Burak on 20 October 2005 at 09:30 AM.] |
Howard Tate
Member From: Leesville, Louisiana, USA
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posted 20 October 2005 12:01 PM
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Here's another thought, if you record yourself, preferably with a band, you may find that the highs are not really that shrill. At home alone, I like much fewer highs, but with a group it will not cut through that way.------------------
Howard, 'Les Paul Recording, Zum SD12U, Carter D10 8/8, Vegas 400, Boss ME-5, Boss DM-3, DD-3, Fender Steel King, Understanding wife. http://www.Charmedmusic.com
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Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 20 October 2005 02:57 PM
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The sound of the aluminum cone in a JBL speaker could be considered shrill by some people. Others love that sound. What speaker are you using?
I don't like adding components to solve a systemic problem. If some component is producing a tone you don't like, you should replace that component instead of adding another component to counter the effect.------------------
 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 20 October 2005 03:28 PM
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b0b, He hasn't said what speaker but he's using a Nashville 112 and unless he says something different I would assume it's the stock Blue Marvel speaker. Trying to fix what is actually wrong rather than adding something to compensate for a problem is my view too and the reason for my comments. |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 20 October 2005 04:45 PM
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I have used a Nashville 400 and the Nashville 112 and the highs were just too bright on both amps. If I adjust the highs on the amp it affects everything else. I use the George L cables you just put in the jack and tighten the screw down. Today I went back to the Belden cable I used for years and there was definitely a difference in the sound. With the George L cables there was a cleaner and brighter sound. I visited today with the man that had our local music store and he confirmed the George L cables would make a difference is the highs. He suggested a 31 band EQ instead of a 7 band. He says with a 7 band you are still cutting in other areas beside the highs. His recommendation was there is not that much of a difference in price. What would guys recommend for an EQ in a rack mount unit and what price range would it be in? I sure appreciate all the comments and advice you have given me. This forum is a wealth of information and just a bunch of great guys and gals willing to help each other out. |
Earnest Bovine
Member From: Los Angeles CA USA
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posted 20 October 2005 04:56 PM
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I recommend try before you buy. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 20 October 2005 10:33 PM
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Paul,
How long have you been playing steel and how many hours a day do you practice ? I'm sorry if I'm on the wrong track but I just don't don't know any guys that play steel on a serious level that have the problem you are talking about. You may just need a couple pointers on how to control your tone with your picking. Or maybe don't point the amp at your head or something simple like that. To buy a gizmo to correct a tecnique problem is a big waste of time and money. Bob |
Gary Walker
Member From: Morro Bay, CA
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posted 20 October 2005 10:49 PM
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I too have a Boss as mentioned above. I run a pretty full tone but when I want to have that '65 Emmons P/P sound, that little dynamite box delivers that sharp sound of the '60s. |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 05:09 AM
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Bob, I have been playing for 26 years. I have had other brands of guitars including an Emmons push-pull and I never had the problem on any others. I just do not think it is a technique problem. I can get on strings 3,4and 5 and they are just too bright and even down on the lower frets. I can adjust the high control and get it out but when I do everything else changes. I can adjust the tone control on the guitar and get it out but everything else gets muddy. This steel just has a brighter sound than any I have ever had. Like I stated before the mids and lows are great but the highs are just too bright. It appears there are several here who use a graphic EQ on their steels when playing. I have even considered trading the guitar but I would rather invest a small amount of money before making such a big decision that may cost me a considerable amount of cash. |
Mike Wheeler
Member From: Columbus, Ohio, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 05:54 AM
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Paul,
Sounds to me like the issue is the pickup, not an EQ or amp problem. If windings inside have either shorted or broken, the pickup's response will change drastically. Also, your description seems to describe a humbucker wired out of phase...could someone have messed with the internal wiring??I'd try a different PU first before buying any other equipment...maybe borrow one from a friend. |
Bob Hoffnar
Member From: Brooklyn, NY
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posted 21 October 2005 08:24 AM
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Paul,
I hope I didn't offend you with my response.
What guitar are you playing now ? Bob |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 08:24 AM
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Paul, you still have not said what kind of guitar and pickup you have. We now know you use a NV112 or an NV400, with George L cables. The fact that you use a Matchbox indicates you have a pot pedal. If you've been playing for 26 years without this problem, what did you change right before the problem started? Like others above, I'm guessing your problem is the pickup. |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 01:08 PM
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Using a Lawrence 710 pickup with an active volume pedal or a Matchbox will produce the exact problem you describe. The 710 was designed for pot pedals. The Lawrence 910 works well with Matchbox etc. |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 01:17 PM
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If I needed to fine-tune the tone of a guitar I liked except for excessive (or not enough) treble, I would NOT use a graphic equalizer. They are passive devices mostly, and even the active ones just suck the life out of your tone.I use almost all tube amps - that's my way of handling it. with slight changes in part values in te preamp, tube changes or a simple rebiasing you can fix that type of problem quickly. Speakers also make a HUGE difference. I didn't check the whole thread, but if you're stuck with a solid-state amp call Ted Weber at Weber VST, tell him your problem and have him recommend & make you a speaker specifically to address it. The guy can work miracles. |
Paul King
Member From: Gainesville, Texas, USA
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posted 21 October 2005 02:42 PM
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I have an Emmons Le Grande III steel. I might add the highs are very bright on both necks. Maybe I need to have it looked at by someone who knows about pickups and electronics. The highs have been bright since I have had it in my possession. I do not know what kind of pickups the guitar has since I bought it used. No Bob, your responsed did not offend me in any way. And the only thing I have changed is I now use a Nashville 112 where I was using a Nashville 400 before. I did take the matchbox out of play and the highs are still bright for me. I have in the last four or five months have people tell me I was playing too loud when I have never been accused of that before. I just believe the highs are too bright and it just bothers the elderly folks. At any rate all the tips are sure appreciated. If I try an EQ from someone else that will let me know for sure if it will solve the problem. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 21 October 2005 03:06 PM
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I have Lawrence 710's on my Franklin. If the pickups are set correctly (the correct distance from the strings) there is no problem using a Matchbox or Matchbox type device or an "active" Pedal such as a Hilton.I have a Hilton Volume pedal and I set the amp the same as I did using a Goodrich 120 volume pedal. I also have an original model MatchBro that has a "Matchbox" (and tone control) in the line when the dobro effect is turned off and it too doesn't affect the highs. |
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