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Author
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Topic: Volume Pedal Choice?
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Tim Lane
Member From: Garfield, Arkansas, USA
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posted 25 October 2005 02:23 PM
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I currently have a Ernie Ball Volume pedal. Is this a appropriate pedal for a Steel? It seems like it looses some clarity at lower volume. I notice that some have been getting the Hilton volume pedal, but they are pretty steep in price. Are they worth it? is so, why, and are their less expensive alternatives.Thanks Guys! |
Steve Hitsman
Member From: Waterloo, IL
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posted 25 October 2005 03:37 PM
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Tim,There's a Goodrich pedal for sale right now on the forum... $85... buy that. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 25 October 2005 04:24 PM
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There are the obvious electronic advancements and improvements with an electronic volume pedal such as a Hilton (my choice). The initial cost is more but after a few volume pot replacements it doesn't take long to close the gap on the price difference.Volume pedals designed for "guitar" use 250 K pots, volume pedals designed for Pedal Steel Guitar use 500 K pots, due to the difference in pickup impedence and the internal electronics (many Pedal Steels do not have a tone control and those that do have a bypass switch to take it out of the circuit). Guitar Volume pedals have the jacks on the front or the left side of the volume pedal, Pedal Steel Guitar volume pedals have the jacks on the right side so they do not interere with foot pedal operation. Steel Guitar pedals have a different height and different angle for the pedal, and designed for use while sitting down - "guitar" volume pedals are designed to be used standing up. There are more, but that's enough to start with. |
Roger Crawford
Member From: Locust Grove, GA USA
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posted 25 October 2005 05:02 PM
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Hilton! |
James Sission
Member From: Sugar Land,Texas USA
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posted 25 October 2005 05:23 PM
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I use an Ernie Ball pedal on my Tele rig. When I first got my steel, I used it on the steel as well. I thought it sounded just fine. Then I bought a Goodrich 120 off the forum. I noticed a pretty distinctive change in the tone, the Goodrich being better. But the Goodrich also had quite a bit of noise in it so I bought an L120 off the forum. It sounded pretty good but I was interested in what the Hilton would sound like. In all honesty, I didn’t notice a big difference between the Hilton and the Goodrich other than the Hilton has adjustments and I like the fact I could change the sweep on it to make it more comfortable to play with. So, I experimented with them all and decided the Hilton is just fine for my needs….James |
Michael Garnett
Member From: Fort Worth, TX
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posted 25 October 2005 09:48 PM
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Another vote here for the Hilton-heads. I'll never have to pull the bottom off that pedal and fiddle with the sweep or the string or a scratchy pot or anything. Sure you've got to plug it in, but that's why Radio Shack sells power strips and extension cords. -MG |
Chris LeDrew
Member From: Newfoundland, Canada
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posted 25 October 2005 10:23 PM
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I used an Ernie Ball that Al Brisco sold me, which had the 500K pot in it. Served me well, but when I inherited a Goodrich Low Profile (L6 battery model) I couldn't believe the difference. It boosted my tone and provided a real nice warmth to my sound. Apparently, the battery provides roughly the same boost as a Matchbox. Knowing what I know now, I'd get a Matchbox with an unpowered pedal.Goodrich, in my experience, is great bang for the buck. Replacement pots, however, can be a drag. I replaced one in June and it's already beginning to get scratchy. Oh well....[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 28 October 2005 at 04:09 AM.] [This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 28 October 2005 at 04:10 AM.] |
Gary Walker
Member From: Morro Bay, CA
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posted 25 October 2005 11:00 PM
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I've got 4 Goodrich pedals I've used over the years but when Mr. Hilton launched his pedal, the Goodrich Brothers occupy my storage bin. |
Billy Carr
Member From: Seminary, Mississippi USA
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posted 26 October 2005 04:17 AM
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I like the Goodrich LDR pedal. Tone and output seems to be better than the L120 I used before. Using LDR with a black box going into a Fender Steel King. Carter S-12U w/XR-16 p/u. Has a nice clean sound on low end as well as high end. |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 26 October 2005 07:39 AM
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I was looking at Hilton's website, and the cost of his pedals is pretty darn expensive!From the looks of it, it's a Goodrich pedal with different "guts", am I correct? Being an electronic "technogeek" myself, I began to wonder how hard it would be to convert existing Goodrich pedals over to optoelectronics, such as the Hilton pedal. If it can be done "cost effectively", and in a professional manner would any of you guys be interested in converting your old pedal to new guts? Would Keith Hilton want to sue me for doing it? I don't need any legal trouble, but it sounds like a lot of us "old timers" could use a Goodrich modification. Hmm, maybe I should just keep quiet and figure this stuff out before I say anymore, eh? |
Ron Sodos
Member From: Albuquerque, New Mexico, USA
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posted 26 October 2005 10:13 AM
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Hilton all the way! |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 26 October 2005 11:40 AM
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There's more to the Hilton pedal than just "guts". It uses a different optical approach than the Goodrich, and is not
"light sensitive" where some others are. It's been around longer and thus a proven design. The Hilton pedal uses high end Op Amps and "audiophile" caps. The power supply is "over engineered" for reliability and safety. |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 26 October 2005 02:47 PM
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Thanks Jack!I'm sure that a lot of time and effort went into the Hilton design, as so many players seem to be completely satisfied with it. I work in an electronic design environment, and without firsthand knowledge of the Hilton volume pedal, it seems like it should be relatively simple. Of course, that's being said by a guy that doesn't know what he's talking about ... but, I am probably going to modify my old Goodrich anyway, and see if I can get some good results. At any rate, it will give me some very entertaining moments putting the circuit together. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 27 October 2005 03:37 AM
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The Hilton is more than an analog op-amp circuit. It has a infrared optical system and a special film between the send and receive optics. There is no "moving parts" other than the film in the pedal. As an electronics tech (and a ham radio op) the analog electronics design may not be a major task, however, the "control" circuitry is a different "animal". It's much more than just an "LDR". |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 27 October 2005 05:53 AM
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Hello Jack:Like I alluded to in my previous message "Inorance is bliss". So, now that I've admitted what I don't know, here's some of what I do know: I haven't taken apart a Hilton pedal, but am aware that photoresistors such as Cadium sulphide photocells can be bought at Radio Shack in a quantity of 5 for $2.50! What else does this pedal have in it? An audio op amp? You can order them online from Digi-key for under $10. To replace a pot with a photocell device is a relatively simple engineering concept. There are certainly some "gotcha's" that haven't been thought out, but for "engineering geeks" like us, it would be kinda fun, eh? Mr. Hilton's design must be very, very good in that so many people love it. I'm sure I would too ... it just seems very expensive. Aw, heck, I'm too lazy to build one ... but it did seem like a cool idea at first. Thanks for your comments! Jim
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Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 27 October 2005 06:44 AM
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Jim, If you could get into the design of the Hilton and the actual components used you would have a different outlook. It's not a stock $5 audio amp, etc. And, there are no Radio Shack "grade" components in it.Keith basically has everything already sold that he can produce. That also says a lot for the unit and it's design. |
Tim McCutchen
Member From: Van Buren, AR, USA
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posted 27 October 2005 10:55 AM
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Hilton. You'll never look back. |
Jim Hinton
Member From: Phoenix, Arizona, USA
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posted 27 October 2005 03:01 PM
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I guess you only need one ... and it should last a very, very long time, shouldn't it? |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 27 October 2005 03:02 PM
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In addition to the infrared volume control system in the Hilton pedal, and a method for adjustment of the friction, it is also an active system that boosts the signal and prevents the highs from being degraded before the amp sees them. There is also a tone control, and a control for adjusting the volume at the minimum pedal point. The minimum volume control helps the player adjust the volume range/pedal throw relationship. The tone control makes the pedal especially versatile, because it allows for adjustment for different pickups, guitars and amps. I have found that the optimum use of the tone control is to set the amp tone controls at their midpoints, then adjust the pedal tone control for your best desired tone. This automatically adjusts for the particular guitar and pickup, and gives you the full range of your amp controls in all directions. It is a very well thought out and designed pedal that uses high quality hi-fi audio components. The only way you could copy it cheaper would be to value your labor at nothing. |
ajm
Member From: Los Angeles
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posted 29 October 2005 10:34 AM
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If you are dealing with passive pedals that have only a pot inside, there is no difference electronically from one to the next except for the value of the pot. A lot of pedals have a 250K value. Changing this to 500K does indeed make a difference.If you have one that has a 250K, try this.
1) Set it up normal (guitar to pedal to amp). Record a minute or so of your playing with the pedal wide open.
2) Without changing anything on the recorder or mic position, remove the volume pedal and plug straight into the amp. Record a minute or so with this method. Now go listen to the two recorded samples. My guess is that the sample without the volume pedal will seem clearer and more open, sort of like someone removed a thin blanket or pillowcase from in front of your amp. Replacing the pot with a 500K or even a 1 Meg value will lessen this "effect".
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Artie McEwan
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Marlin Smoot
Member From: Atlanta,Georgia, USA
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posted 29 October 2005 12:28 PM
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Does anyone know what volume pedal Paul F and Tommy W use? |
Bob Snelgrove
Member From: san jose, ca
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posted 29 October 2005 01:50 PM
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MarlinI'm sure Paul uses a Franklin pot pedal. I think Tommy uses a Goodrich pot but no sure.
bob
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Tyler Hall
Member From: Alabama, USA
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posted 31 October 2005 02:02 PM
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I have used an Ernie Ball, and a Goodrich L120. Both were about the same. However, I bought a Goodrich LDR from a friend of mine, and that is what I use. Not a lot of tone difference, but the LDR has a tone adjustment. I use the LDR about 90% of the time.D-10 Fessenden, Nashville 112, Session 500 |
Craig A Davidson
Member From: Wisconsin Rapids, Wisconsin USA
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posted 31 October 2005 03:54 PM
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Yes, Hilton pedals cost some bucks, but how much was the steel you are playing , or the amp you are playing thru? To me Hilton is the best. Keith knows what he is doing. He makes the best pedal around for my money. |
Willis Vanderberg
Member From: Bradenton, FL, USA
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posted 31 October 2005 04:59 PM
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As soon as you save up enough for the Hilton, start saving for a " Black Box " ,then you will need nothing but some ability to play the old horn. |
Rick Alexander
Member From: Florida, USA
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posted 05 November 2005 08:14 PM
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Hilton rules. No unwanted noise and no tone loss. It's not really that expensive when you consider that it's the last VP you'll ever buy.
Just factor the cost over a 10 year period, it's about 55cents a week.  |
Buck Grantham
Member From: Denham Springs, LA. USA
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posted 06 November 2005 05:47 PM
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The Hilton Pedal !!!!!! |
Tim Lane
Member From: Garfield, Arkansas, USA
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posted 06 November 2005 07:04 PM
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Great comments guys, I appreciate it. Craig makes a great point about having the money invested in our guitars and amps, so might as well get the right pedal too.------------------
Better to keep your mouth shut and let 'em think you're stupid that to speak and remove all doubt.
Rains SD10, Fender Strat, Martin HD28V, Martin SPJC16E, http://www.Eaglelt.com
[This message was edited by Tim Lane on 06 November 2005 at 07:05 PM.] |
John Macy
Member From: Denver, CO USA
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posted 06 November 2005 08:06 PM
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Love my Goodrich LDR--about to order a second one |
Bill Myrick
Member From: Pea Ridge, Ar.
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posted 07 November 2005 01:40 AM
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For what ever it's worth, I certainly am well pleased with the Hilton Pedal ( although it does tend to draw women) --he has even built a red light version in the past--I had a chance at it but passed !! Really !! Not kidding !!! ask him !!! |
David L. Donald
Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
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posted 07 November 2005 05:29 AM
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I got a new Hilton and do not regret it one bit.
Worth the price,
especially if you like having nothing between degrading your sound between your steel and amp.Clean, clear, smooth and you can adjust the cut-off point and tone. The high end Goodricjh pedals are solid units, but there are some older ones that are more a pot pedal or an earlier design, and not as strong as the more recent ones.. The Hilton is a better over all design IMHO. |
Mark Fasbender
Member From: Salt Lake City,Utah
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posted 16 November 2005 05:20 PM
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Dont any of you guys with P V amps 3 cord your setups?
I have a Goodrich LDR I like alot. Never played a Hilton. ------------------
Got Twang ? Mark |
Jim Peters
Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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posted 16 November 2005 08:36 PM
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Mark F, I do! JP |
Mark Fasbender
Member From: Salt Lake City,Utah
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posted 17 November 2005 04:43 AM
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Tim....... I have used Ernie Balls with PV amps in a 3 cord setup and they work really well. Not as flexible as my Goodrich LDR-2 but if the pot is good the 3 cord setup works quite well. There is still possible string breakage to deal with but this doesn't happen often. Are you using a PV amp? ------------------
Got Twang ? Mark |
Tim Lane
Member From: Garfield, Arkansas, USA
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posted 17 November 2005 04:12 PM
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Yes, I'm using a nv112. What do you mean by 3 cord setup?Thanks! |
Russ Little
Member From: Hosston,Louisiana, USA
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posted 17 November 2005 07:36 PM
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I love the reports on the hilton pedal
but have never used one.
My big problem with it is the wall wart.
What is the operating voltage on it?
and would it be feasable to run it
off a battery Pack.
Just a Thought
Russ |
Bob Mainwaring
Member From: Qualicum Beach Vancouver Island B.C. Canada
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posted 18 November 2005 12:49 AM
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I would agree with all the other comments regarding the Hilton Pedals ...........best thing yet for all steel pickers and grinners. I always carry a spare "wart" that are obtainable at any Salvation Army store for just pennies, this makes sure you're always ahead of the game.Bob. ------------------
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