Author
|
Topic: Best Mic to record Steel Guitar
|
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 04 February 2006 04:40 PM
profile
Hello folksI am looking for an opinion as to a great studio microphone for recording steel. I have used everything under the sun over the years but can never remember what worked best as the engineer usually sets all that up. I play a Franklin through several different amps so hopefully that is enough info for ya’ll to go by. Thanks everyone
|
Al Terhune Member From: Newcastle, WA
|
posted 04 February 2006 05:52 PM
profile
I've found that a ribbon mike will capture the most authentic sound coming out of your amp. A SDC will come close, too, maybe adding some highs, and an LDC will add some color, depending on the mike.Al |
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 04 February 2006 05:57 PM
profile
Thanks AlI have used some U-47 and such but can not afford that for the home rig. I am looking at a Blue right now which is a large diaphragm condenser. They are great on acoustic... Mike
|
Steve Hinson Member From: Hendersonville Tn USA
|
posted 04 February 2006 06:02 PM
profile
Sennheiser 421!A 57 works good,too...nice midrange bump...------------------ http://home.comcast.net/~steves_garage |
Marlin Smoot Member From: Atlanta,Georgia, USA
|
posted 04 February 2006 06:19 PM
profile
Neumann U-87. |
John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA
|
posted 04 February 2006 07:09 PM
profile
http://steelguitarforum.com/Forum11/HTML/007564.html |
Alvin Blaine Member From: Sandy Valley, Nevada, USA
|
posted 05 February 2006 03:48 AM
profile
If your thinking about Blue Mics you should realy try the Dragonfly. It's the most amazing mic I have ever heard on a Fender amp. In the booth on playback it sounded like my face was 5 inches from the speaker grill of the amp. It didn't sound like a recording at all, it sounded like my amp. I could almost smell the musty smoke and beer stains from inside the control booth.If you want to check out a couple of ribbon mics, that are somewhat affordable. The new AEA-R92 is, about the same price range as the Blue Dragonfly, just under $800. The next would be the new Groove Tube VELO-8 Ribbon mic. I've seen this one, but have not tried it yet. The street price is around $640. The ribbon mics are good if you have a nice sounding room and want to bring some of it into the mix. If not then I would go with the Blue. |
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 05 February 2006 04:39 AM
profile
Thanks for all the great info guys. I think I might look into the Shinybox 46. I have a Blue Baby Bottle and a 57 for guitar now. I use the Blue on acoustic guitar and the 57 on my Matchless and Bogner amps for lead. The price of the Shinybox is appealing and you guys are giving that mic a good review. I would be curious how the different transformers on the 46 perform on steel with the Shinybox mics.Mike
|
Hook Moore Member From: South Charleston,West Virginia
|
posted 05 February 2006 06:18 AM
profile
Shinybox 46 Hook------------------ www.HookMoore.com
|
David L. Donald Member From: Koh Samui Island, Thailand
|
posted 05 February 2006 07:20 AM
profile
I tend to go for 2 Earthworks SR-71's for steel and a lot of other stuff. I also use my Brauner Valvet a lot. |
John Cook Member From: Sarasota, Florida, USA
|
posted 05 February 2006 11:06 AM
profile
Mike, use a Shure 57 or 58 right up on the amp and a Rode NT 1000 about 3 feet away from the amp and record together. Rode mics are relatively inexpensive and out perform everything in its class and well beyond. When you are done recording you can mix the two channels to your liking. I think this is the best way to go. jc |
Brad Sarno Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
|
posted 05 February 2006 06:22 PM
profile
Lot's of great mics and suggestions here. But I'd say try a Shure Green Bullet for something different. Don't laugh until you try it. Brad
|
Dan Tyack Member From: Seattle, WA USA
|
posted 06 February 2006 10:54 AM
profile
My favorite right now is the AEA 184 ribbon. Next come all the other ribbons mentioned on the ribbon mike threads. Some other favorites are the Shure SM7b (a broadcast mike that sounds like an SM57 but with much better low end). The 57 is a good choice. |
Ricky Davis Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
|
posted 06 February 2006 11:31 AM
profile
When I walk into the studio and set my amp/speaker up; the engineer always asks me: "how do you want me to mic it"?? I always say: "put your most expensive Vocal mic in front of the speaker and lets go". I always get a great sound recorded that way and the engineer is always floored by how good the steel sounds. Lloyd Green told me years ago: "Ricky; the steel guitar is the OTHER voice in country music". So I took that statement to another level; with treating the recording of my steel; as like the way you would record a voice. Ricky[This message was edited by Ricky Davis on 06 February 2006 at 11:32 AM.] |
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 06 February 2006 12:01 PM
profile
Thanks for all your input guys. I think I will try the SkinyBox 46 as the price is good and I'm sure I will find uses for that mic in other areas as well as steel.Cheers Mike |
Bob Cox Member From: Portsmouth,Ohio USA
|
posted 06 February 2006 06:14 PM
profile
Does a ribbon mike require phantom power like a standard condensor mike.The condensor mikes I have won,t record direct without patching them thru a p.a. creating the chance for more hum,or clipping.Does anyone know how to reduce the bass clipping on digital recorders.Seems like everything Never achieves the proper volume for the standard playback on players without clipping. |
Brad Sarno Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
|
posted 10 February 2006 07:56 AM
profile
Bob. They say to NEVER apply phantom power to a ribbon mic as you can cook the metal ribbon. Your question about achieving the kind of levels in recording that sound like normal or standard playback levels, well that's the way it is. When you record, it's a good idea to keep your peaks about 6dB below max (or full scale). Your music will sound MUCH quieter than normal playback levels. Once your music is recorded, you'll then need to apply things like proper EQ, some compression, and probably some peak limiting. These processes are what it takes to bring up the average loudness of program material to what we consider "normal" levels. You will never be able to record a performance and expect those recorded levels to immediately match typical listening levels. Recording is the first step. Then there's mixing and/or mastering. Brad
|
Dave Ristrim Member From: Whites Creek, TN
|
posted 15 February 2006 04:20 AM
profile
Just my 2 cents, but I'd say the Sennheiser 421 or a 57. These are the mics that Mr. Paul uses in the studio if it makes a difference. Dave |
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 15 February 2006 04:36 AM
profile
Hi DaveI bought one of those Shinybox 46 *best model)... It did not sound that great at first but when I out it up on my Summit Audio Stereo Tube Mic Pre it turned into something great... Having a great Mic Pre makes all the difference in the world. It sound very clear and transparent. That mic pre reminds me of an old Fender amp in a way. Stuff just starts to get sweet. I still need to try out my acoustic with that mic as I have been using a Blue on that guy with great results. Have fun bro.... hope to see you soon. You still playing with Buddy Jewel? Scaggs
|
KENNY KRUPNICK Member From: Grove City,Ohio
|
posted 18 February 2006 09:51 PM
profile
AKG C3000B  |
Brad Sarno Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
|
posted 21 February 2006 07:13 AM
profile
OK, I finally got to try my new Shinybox #46. Wow. Great steel amp mic. Not as dark as some of the ribbon mic's I'd used in the past like a Coles or RCA. Very natural, smooth, warm, FULL, easy to mix, and a surprisingly clear top end. For $150 it's maybe the best mic bargain I've ever seen. So far it seems to sound great on anything. Thanks for the recommendation guys (John Macy, Randy Beavers, etc.). Brad |
Mark van Allen Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
|
posted 21 February 2006 12:12 PM
profile
One thing on the Shiny box and other ribbon mics- most of them like to see an much lower input impedance (to the mic preamp) than the average condenser mic. Any of the new breed of preamps with adjustable input impedance can really make then come alive- many pres have 1500 ohms or so input impedance, and an impedance of 600 ohms or less can really make those ribbons shine. (Eurkea makes some reasonably priced pres that sound fantastic, and have adjustable input impedance). Ribbons mics definitely don't want to see phantom power- make extra sure to have it OFF before connecting them. For condenser mics needing phantom, rather than running through a cheaper mixer just to get the phantom, there are several boxes you can buy to supply clean phantom power that just go in line between mic and input.------------------ Stop by the Steel Store at: www.markvanallen.com
|
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 21 February 2006 12:26 PM
profile
You are so right about the mic pre amps. Good ones are expensive so it's all in what you need/want your bottom-line to sound like. I personally do allot of Protools stuff at home for studios around town and in CA so getting the best I can keeps the sessions coming. I do believe that there isn't one perfect mic to record steel with. Depending on your amp, guitar, room, etc. Some things just are not an exact science I guess...Scaggs
|
Jerry Gleason Member From: Eugene, Oregon
|
posted 21 February 2006 02:17 PM
profile
For a really great sounding mic preamp at a reasonable price (especially if you're handy with a soldering iron), I can recommend a Hamptone. They are available in kit form or assembled. I recently built one of the JFET kits, and I couldn't be more pleased. It's a stellar piece of gear. Transformer balanced in and out, very high quality components, and pretty easy and fun to build. He makes a tube pre and a JFET model with a similar circuit topology. Excellent with the ribbon mics and condensers, and turns a Shure SM57 into something quite special. In addition to being a top-notch mic pre, it's also the best sounding DI I have ever used. Scott is a great guy to work with, and gives prompt tech support for his products if it's needed. |
John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA
|
posted 21 February 2006 04:24 PM
profile
Scott built a custom power supply for me for a tube U47 and it has been flawless, and I agree, he was great to work with. Have been thinking of one of his pre's lately (but I think a Quad Eight Pacifica is next in line... )... |
Ron Randall Member From: Dallas, Texas, USA
|
posted 21 February 2006 10:39 PM
profile
FWIW Assuming you are in the studio: Sennheiser 421* and a snooty Neumann a couple of feet back.*I may have the number wrong. I really like this mic all around. Good mics need great pre's. IMHO. Avalon 737sp will do nicely. hope this helps. Ron[This message was edited by Ron Randall on 21 February 2006 at 10:47 PM.] |
John Macy Member From: Denver, CO USA
|
posted 22 February 2006 09:06 AM
profile
I love 421's and have several of them. Like Randy Beavers mentioned, they were my also "go to" mic for steel until I got the Shiny Box 46's (which I like even better than my Royer's) for steel.... |
Mark van Allen Member From: loganville, Ga. USA
|
posted 23 February 2006 09:25 AM
profile
Running against "normal studio protocol", one of my favorite tricks is to record in stereo using two dis-similar mics. Last night I recorded a track through my Walker stereo rig, with a Shinybox 46 on one cab, and an AKG C414 BULS on the other. I didn't compress them, so the slight breathing on the different tracks lends some subtle movement to the track. Not something I'd do on, say, drum overheads, but nice on steel. |
Darrell Owens Member From: Norco, California, USA
|
posted 23 February 2006 08:17 PM
profile
I believe Mike hit on an important consideration - the preamp. It is as important as the mic. I am recording a project now on pro-tools. I have a Royer 122 ribbon mic and a Martech preamp. I am recording an Emmons LeGrande and a Webb amp. The Royer set back about 10 inches from the amp provides a very accurate and impressive reproduction of the actual tone of the amp and guitar. ------------------ Darrell Owens www.darrellowens.com |
Bob Martin Member From: Madison Tn
|
posted 24 February 2006 07:54 PM
profile
I've had a lot of luck with multiple mics any where from 2 to 4 mics of your choice. My best results were one in front close miced and one in the back and then to overheads for ambience. Killer sound and not much need for reverb due to the ambient room mics. Give it a try you might like it.Big Bob |
Brad Sarno Member From: St. Louis, MO USA
|
posted 25 February 2006 08:16 AM
profile
Darrell, I agree. The mic preamp is such a critical part of the chain. Once you start working with a true mic preamp, you really can never go back. Back when I first discovered what a real mic preamp can do for a microphone, I was floored at how clearly it made the difference between an amateur sounding and a professional sounding recording. It's not a subtle thing either. Take the Neve or API (or modern remake) mic preamp. What comes out sounds bigger and more real than what goes in. If you record a vocal, drums, guitars, etc. into a Mackie or typical modern computer interface with built-in mic pre, and then switch over to the good mic preamp, suddenly what's coming out of your speakers sounds bigger than life, more 3-D, more dynamic, more "realistic". Good mic preamps (and good mic placement) makes mixing a breeze and you find that you use almost no EQ to make a sound fit in the mix. If you track without a good mic pre you'll probably spend a lot of time with an EQ and compression trying to get it to sound right. Good mic preamps are expensive, but if you're serious about recording I feel safe to say it may be the most important piece of gear you can have in the chain. It's absolutely amazing to hear what even an SM57 sounds like thru a good mic pre compared to without a good pre. Night and day. It's a dangerous addiction. Brad |
Jim Sliff Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
|
posted 25 February 2006 08:31 AM
profile
For a home studio the ART Tube MP Studio preamp works wonders. I've used various MXL, Shure and an old RCA ribbon with it and it warms everything up nicely when using software-based recording systems. |
Mike Scaggs Member From: Nashville, TN
|
posted 25 February 2006 05:18 PM
profile
Right now I am using a Summit Audio Stereo Tube Mic Pre, it's frikin awesome. Whatever mic I plug into that bad boy sounds all pro... Using a 57, Shinybox, and Blue Bottle with a killer capsule. Couldn't be happier. |
Dave Grafe Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
|
posted 25 February 2006 07:01 PM
profile
If you're only going to own one microphone you would be hard pressed to do better than the Sennheiser MD421, an outstanding mic for just about ANY application (including vocals), live or in the studio. |
Darrell Owens Member From: Norco, California, USA
|
posted 25 February 2006 08:05 PM
profile
Brad, The proof is in the playback. It's difficult to shell out the cash for a good preamp, but it makes the mic come alive. It may be the most important piece of equipment in the record chain. ------------------ Darrell Owens www.darrellowens.com |
Al Terhune Member From: Newcastle, WA
|
posted 25 February 2006 09:42 PM
profile
Mike guru Harvey Gerst road tested Studio Project's VTB-1 preamp (of which I have two), and was quite impressed with it's output, low noise, and quality. He said he would buy it just to power his ribbon mikes. You can find this on ebay for $100 shipped.A GREAT mike preamp and, no, you don't have to pay the bucks. Studio Projects also produces Chinese-made mikes that are wonderful for the price. Al |
Jeff Hogsten Member From: Flatwoods Ky USA
|
posted 27 February 2006 07:31 AM
profile
actually some of the pres that have been mentioned like the studio projects are good but really dont have enought gain for a ribbon the fmr VNP would be close, to the guys that have the shinny box ribbons there is about a fifteen minute mod you can do that will improve it 50% ribbons are easy to blow and the manufacturer put a lot of stuff inside it for protection go inside and there is a mesh screen and a cloth sock over the ribbon take this off and you will be shocked at the differnce in the sound Ive recoreded some guitar tracs with mine that sound as good as anything Ive ever hear it sounds great it does make it more delicate but if you dont abuse it your fine |
Jerry Gleason Member From: Eugene, Oregon
|
posted 27 February 2006 09:25 AM
profile
Yes, I did take my 46 apart and remove that silk mesh screen soon after I got it, and it did clean up the high end a bit. Be careful about doing that, though. I don't know if it would void the warranty or not, but it probably makes the mic more susceptable to wind damage. Keep it in case you want to put it back on later. As far as preamp gain, this mic has more output than most ribbon mics, almost as much as many dynamic mics. I think that most any preamp that is clean and quiet, and can provide about 50 db or more of gain should do the job. As others have pointed out, however, this is one mic that will definitely reward the use of a better preamp than those found in cheaper mixers or computer interfaces. |
Scott Appleton Member From: Half Moon Bay, California, USA
|
posted 27 February 2006 12:19 PM
profile
You can get the equitech CAD 200 or 300 cheep cause no one likes them for vocals and they were about 750 when they came out. they do a great job with kick and with guitar amps. thats what i use mine for.
------------------ Mullen S12 Almost Mooney 71 Tele, Regal 45 Sho Bud S10 NP Line 6 Flextone 3 + JBL D130, Acoustic 165 100 W all tube EV 12, Nash 112, digitech 2101 FX |