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Author
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Topic: fender amps other than a twin?
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Alex Piazza
Member From: Arkansas, USA
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posted 29 May 2006 12:43 PM
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Im looking for a fender amp thats got more power than a deluxe reverb, but less power and "wieght" than a twin. It seems like a hot rod deluxe would be a good in between amp. I also play half of my gigs on guitar. Ive seen a lot of posts trashing the hot rod saying that theres not enough headroom, too harsh, not enough bass. when Ive played one I could hardly get the volume past 2. They do seem a little harsh. I figure thats nothing a tone tubby couldnt fix. Any thoughts would be great.Thanks[This message was edited by Alex Piazza on 29 May 2006 at 12:43 PM.] |
Chris LeDrew
Member From: Newfoundland, Canada
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posted 29 May 2006 01:56 PM
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Alex,I know you want a Fender, but I have to say that my Music Man RD-50 112 fills the exact void you're describing. It's a very clean 50 watts, about 35 pounds and it sounds really great. Granted, I do use a Graphic EQ to boost the lows and scoop the mids. But it's a nice reliable compact warm-sounding amp. I sold my SF Twin, and my Session is only for home use now. My Music Man 112 does all I need it to do live. It's a hybrid tube/solid state. It's got the Fender tone without the weight, IMO. There's one on Ebay right now. |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 29 May 2006 02:15 PM
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Alex - the '64 Vibroverb Custom fals right into the category. It's around 40-50 watts, 1x15" speaker, and much lighter than a Twin. I don't know aobut tone with modern steels, but it sounds great with my Fenders. |
Mike Fried
Member From: Nashville, TN, USA
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posted 29 May 2006 04:59 PM
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The Hot Rod Deluxe and other higher-gain modern Fender amps (and some other tweed-style amps) can be made more steel-friendly by replacing the first stage 12AX7/7025 preamp tube with a lower-gain tube like a 12AY7 (this is a straight swap, no mods required). This will increase the headroom, reduce the harshness, and can improve the bass rssponse as well. Sometimes replacing a 12AX7 phase inverter with a 12AT7 will also help (another straight swap). |
Jody Carver
Member From: The Knight Of Fender Tweed~ Dodger Blue Forever
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posted 29 May 2006 05:10 PM
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Music Man. |
Andy Zynda
Member From: Wisconsin
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posted 29 May 2006 07:24 PM
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Aye, Music Man.
-andy- |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 29 May 2006 10:41 PM
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You should try a Pro Reverb. The silver face ones are 60 watts. They weigh 64 lbs. with 2x12 Jensens, and mine with a 4 ohm JBL D130F weighs 60 lbs. If that's too much volume and weight for you, try a Vibrolux, 40 watts, 47 lbs. I don't care for the 2x10s for steel, but you could get a custom cab that would hold a single 12 or 15. I have a Music Man RD 112. It is an amazing 100 watts, 44 lbs. But for me the tone is not as good for steel as Fender silver faces. The bass is good, but there is a piercing high that I cannot tame. It doesn't have that Fender sparkle in the highs. ------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards |
Keith Cordell
Member From: Atlanta
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posted 30 May 2006 05:38 AM
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I did the tube mod described above and got a Cannabis Rex from Eminence- their approximation of a Tone Tubby. It was beautiful. A lot cleaner, very loud, harshness problem solved. |
Marlin Smoot
Member From: Atlanta,Georgia, USA
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posted 30 May 2006 07:05 AM
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Have you looked into the Fender Deville? Comes with 4x10's or 2x12's. 60 loud watts. |
Chris LeDrew
Member From: Newfoundland, Canada
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posted 30 May 2006 07:25 AM
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David's right about the highs. They're not as sparkly as my old SF....but with a Boss EQ stomp box, you'd be surprised what you can dial in for tone. Mine's the newer 80's model with the hybrid solid state/tube configuration. Three tubes and away you go.The big thing for me is the weight and size. It's so light and compact and still delivers nice tone. I'm tired of dragging around an overly heavy amp just because it's got amazing tone. The SF Twin I had sounded great, but not great enough to make up for the burden of dragging it up over stairs and down long hallways. I can get something close with my Music Man setup, and that's good enough for me. In fact, it sounds better than my Session 400; it's warmer. I put it on an amp stand close to me, and it's perfect in a live situation. I most always play venues that mic the amps, so I don't need 200 watts. 50 watts is enough for me to get a nice throw out of the pedal for sustain and boost. I may get flamed for this, but unless there's another steel player in the audience, no one cares about the superior tone of an SF Twin compared to whatever else. A passable whine and semi-authentic honk is all the average audience member wants from the pedal steel anyway. If it comes close to satisfying your ear (and it's not irritating anybody on or off the stage), then you've won the battle. IMHO, of course. |
Larry Chung
Member From: San Francisco, CA, USA
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posted 30 May 2006 10:18 AM
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Hey Alex:You may want to find an old (early 80s) Fender Concert amp. This all-tube 1x12 60 watt amp was made for only a couple of years. It has two channels, tube reverb, and is meant as more of a rock n' roll machine. But I find the clean channel very Fendery for guitar, and the overdrive channel very sweet for steel, with a little bit of grit and a lot more warmth than most of the other (heavier) tube and non-tube amps I've tried. Weighs in at about 60 pounds. They're not super expensive, either, because they're not "legitimate" silverfaces or blackfaces from the 60s or 70s. The only things with which I would find fault - no vibrato/tremolo, and it's a little noisier than some amps I've played due to all of the wiring inside. But for a live situation, perfect. I use mine alot, and it's very dependable and sounds like a Fender tube amp should. And I agree with Chris, that only steel players really hear the tonal differences most nights. But, as a steel player myself, I do want myself to sound my best. And I have a good and reliable massage therapist, too. (: All ZBest,
LC[This message was edited by Larry Chung on 30 May 2006 at 10:21 AM.] |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 30 May 2006 10:43 AM
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I've been gigging with an early '80's Fender 75 lately.
This one is the 1x12 combo but they also made a 1x15 combo and a head only model.
It has a pull boost on the tone knobs and I like the bass knob boosted.
Not much help in the weight dept, though. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 30 May 2006 12:31 PM
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Wow, Pete, I always wondered what one of those was like. That's from the Paul Rivera era at Fender. I noticed in the Fender Field Guide there is a Lo output (15 watts) switch. How does it sound in that mode? There is also a 140 and a 30 from that era (the names are the same as the outputs). I just got a Princeton Reverb II from the same era. It sounds like a cross between a blackface and a Mesa Boogie. On the other hand, my Super Twin Reverb from that era sounds like a silver face Twin, only louder.Chris, I understand what you are saying. And it's true that for modern country or jazz, most listeners will have no problem with a solid state amp, and they sure are lighter and more trouble free. But when I play in rock clubs, the younger crowd there (not to mention the other musicians) seem to appreciate the vintage tube sound, especially for vintage country, rockabilly, country-rock and blues. I think a lot of modern recordings have tube tone added in mixing, even if the steel amp is solid state. Audiences may not be fully conscious of the difference, and may not know the explanation, but I think the tube tone does have an effect on the audience. Maybe Brad Sarno's Black Box helps with that - I haven't had the pleasure of hearing one live. ------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards |
Pete Burak
Member From: Portland, OR USA
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posted 30 May 2006 03:46 PM
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David, It's still pretty freakin' loud at the low power setting!
It breaks up earlier though.
It's actually a nice feature.
A cool amp, hand wired, tube, Fender, (for $250 on our local Craigslist a few months back).FWIW, I had a Music Man RD 65 for a while, and didn't really like it for steel. This one had the solid state preamp section and a JBL speaker. It was small, light, and loud, though.
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Darvin Willhoite
Member From: Leander, Tx. USA
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posted 30 May 2006 06:21 PM
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I just got back from the OSGA show in Tulsa, and J.D. Walters was playing through some kind of a new Fender amp and got a great tone. I didn't get close enough to see what the model was, but it appeared to have two 12" speakers, and built in digital effects. Some one who was there may know what model it was. His sound was really clear and clean. ------------------
Darvin Willhoite
Riva Ridge Recording
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Tony Prior
Member From: Charlotte NC
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posted 31 May 2006 02:57 AM
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Hot Rod Deluxe = 40 watts, single 12..very cool amp but lacks the appropriate headroom should you decide to use it for Steel in a moderate to larger room.Hot Rod Deville..2x12 or 4 x10...= 60 watts... Has more stage volume and a lot more headroom... and it's heavier...
I played a HR Deluxe for many years then stepped up to the 2x12 HR Deville..I would have no problem using this amp alone for both Tele and Steel on appropriate gigs...
I use this amp very often with a two amp rig... It rocks... The Reverb is a bit harsh though,that would be my only negative comment..... very reliable ..very consistent...
very loud...
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TPrior
TPrior Steel Guitar Homesite
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Tim Whitlock
Member From: Arvada, CO, USA
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posted 31 May 2006 05:01 AM
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Another vote for the Music Man RD112. I have the 50 watt version and it substitutes very nicely for my Twin. Takes up less room on stage and is plenty loud enough for small to medium sized clubs. The tone is fine with my Fender 1000 and the reverb is the best I've heard. Still like the Twin when there's enough room for it and a 5 or 6 piece band. Never quite understood why so many have issues with the weight of the Twin. It's comparable in weight to a lot of D-10 guitars. As one forumite put it: It's not like you have to stand there holding it all night! |
Chris LeDrew
Member From: Newfoundland, Canada
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posted 31 May 2006 06:50 AM
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I think the weight of the Twin is a hassle because of it's dimensions.....a steel case of the same weight is a lot easier to handle, IMO. |
Henry Nagle
Member From: Santa Rosa, California
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posted 31 May 2006 08:35 AM
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I don't think the newer Fenders, like Hot Rod Deluxes and Devilles, have two seperate channels. They have "channel switching" but that won't help out much. I played with a steel player who used a Hot Rod Deluxe. It actually sounded fine for a medium volume band/room. I don't think they're good for double duty though. I find it very important to have two channels. A/B boxes, eq pedals, etc.... It's all too much stuff to fool with during an already hurried transition.
Do some of the Music Mans have two channels? I know that some don't.
There are lots of Fender amps that will work fine.
I bet a 40 watt Super Reverb would sound pretty good.
I had a Bandmaster Reverb that worked pretty well.
[This message was edited by Henry Nagle on 31 May 2006 at 08:36 AM.] |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 31 May 2006 08:37 AM
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One other idea would be to put lightweight speakers in the Twin. The Celestion G12 weighs just over 3 lbs., and putting 2 of these in a Twin would likely save 10-15 lbs.. They're only rated at 50-75 watts, but two of them would probably handle most duties in a Twin pretty well. I put one in my Stage 112 amp, and now it only weighs about 32 lbs., not bad for a 100 watt amp! |
Chip McConnell
Member From: San Francisco, California, USA
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posted 31 May 2006 07:25 PM
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Not to devalue what others have said about the Music Man amps, but I used a 115 "Sixty Five" for a couple of years for both steel and 6-string. Those particular models (with single 15") are not that easy to find, and I thought I had found a great solution to the dilemma you describe. I found it to be very "solid-state" sounding yet with much less headroom than I would have expected. Now, I think I should have tried replacing the stock speaker before giving up on it. My next amp? A SF Twin which made me wish I had switched a lot sooner. After that? A Webb 6-14E plus Princeton Reverb with a 12" speaker. So much for going light. |
Joe Shelby
Member From: Walnut Creek, California, USA
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posted 31 May 2006 07:32 PM
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I got a MusicMan 115 HD 130 in 1976. It came
without a speaker, which surprised the help at the music store (as well as I, since we all assumed that it would). They called the
company, and John Walker (then head guy at MusicMan) said they didn't make a speaker that could handle the amp's power rating. So
the music store guys scrambled and pulled a
D130f out of an old Showman cab and I was good to go.
I never took to it the way I had to the Fenders I had previously used (Blonde Bandmaster 2-12,blackface Vibrolux Reverb, mod-ed SF Super Reverb).
The MusicMan had what I still think is the nicest spring reverb of any amp I've used, very smooth and pretty. The treble was (as
David D. mentioned) so harsh that I could never tame it. It was built like a tank, and
it survived several falls off stage. I had to
replace the reverb tank once. At 20 years the
transistors (most of them) needed replacing,
and those were very difficult to find, at least at that time (?1995). I think the use of EL34's might not have been the best choice
for a steel amp. (The 6CA7's, which it came
with, were a slightly smoother sounding tube;
but try finding new ones in the '80's or now).
I tried other MusicMans over the years and generally didn't think any to be an improvement over what I had. There was an early 410 HD 65 that a guitar player I worked
with had, and that was a pretty good sounding
amp for steel.
I always thought the 210 HD to be a cool package, but here again probably not so much for steel.
This is just my own personal feelings about
these amps, so don't pass on trying one out,etc.Joe. |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 31 May 2006 09:36 PM
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Joe - Depending on who makes them, the 6CA7 and EL34 are the same tube. El34 is the European designation, 6CA7 the US one. Even in the 60's and 70's there was a ton of relabeling, so unless you had a Mullard, Tung Sol or RCA (plus a few other brands) it was often hard to know what maker REALLY made the tube.Darvin - you may have seen the Cyber Twin, which is not a bad sounding steel amp actually. Very tweakable and quite light for a 2x12. It's a "modeling" (Fender doesn't use that term...they say "emulate") amp that can approximate the tone of may amp/speaker/effect combinations. The first iteration I hated, but the Series II is a pretty decent amp. |
Mark Fasbender
Member From: Salt Lake City,Utah
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posted 01 June 2006 02:27 AM
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Try a peavey classic 30 or 50 . They are great amps in that range. At least I think so.  ------------------
Got Twang ? Mark |
TonyL
Member From: Vancouver, BC
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posted 01 June 2006 11:52 AM
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I use a 4 x10 59 Bassman LTD reissue. I find it's perfect with my stringmasters- it doesn't handle the low C6 on my pedal guitar quite as well, but it's acceptable. I use both channels crossed-over.. T[This message was edited by TonyL on 01 June 2006 at 11:52 AM.] |
Reid Fletcher
Member From: Leesville, LA, USA
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posted 05 June 2006 09:07 AM
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Alex, go with Tony Prior's input--HR DeVille--2/12-60 watts. Uae an A/B switch box and you will find it works well with steel and 6 string (use the channel switch for 6 st.) Adjust the drive and Master to your needs with 6 st. Try it--you will like it! |
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