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Author
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Topic: Pickup Distortion. Too Many Windings?
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Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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posted 09 June 2006 07:31 PM
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It came up in a conversation today.I've been using 16ks for a couple years now, and I don't find any to speak of. The best pickups I had were wound even "thinner". Are those fat pickups producing too much signal for preamps? I guess what sets my question off is my Podxt shows that my "hotter" G&L pickups show an "overdrive alert" on my Podxt, where my thinner wound pickups on my CIC Tele don't. I don't have anything to compare PSG pickups with, and "Old" ShoBud pickups like the ones on my Professional only have tapped lower windings. Most in the last twenty or so years are around 22k from what experience I've had with them. Just wondering. Thanks for any response/observation. Off to the gig at Eagle Creek.
 EJL |
Jim Peters
Member From: St. Louis, Missouri, USA
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posted 09 June 2006 07:38 PM
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lower it down a little bit. JP |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 10 June 2006 03:10 AM
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The Bill Lawrence 710 pickups are a "hot" pickup and on a steel will tend to overdrive or distort if they are too close to the strings. That is the reason for the minimum 3/8" distance on that pickup.BTW, Bill Lawrence does not use DC (wire) resistance as a parameter for winding pickups. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 10 June 2006 04:54 AM
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quote:
Are those fat pickups producing too much signal for preamps?
In some cases, that's possible. It's also possible if you use a volume pedal with a preamp in it (a powered pedal) to have too much signal going out. However, since there is a volume pedal between the pickup and the preamp, the first thing you should always try is to just use less volume pedal. (But most players don't think of that.  ) |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 10 June 2006 08:52 AM
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Eric - yes. the POD's input impedance is designed for typical guitar pickups - humbuckers at 8-9k or so, single coils lower. So typically, 16k and up steel pickups will overdrive the input and sound distorted. turn it down, or use a matchbox (which is what I did when I had my MSA into a POD).It's true Bill Lawrence doesn't use impedance as the deciding factor in pickup tonality, it's still somethig that affects using certain pickups with certain devices. Another example - I have a Fender GDec practice amp, with a built-in MIDI "backup band". Great unit, everybody should have one. But while it works fine with my Fenders at 8k pickup resistance), it distorted immediately with a friend's Emmons - until he set up a Matchbox and "dumbed down" the signal. |
Eric West
Member From: Portland, Oregon, USA
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posted 10 June 2006 10:08 AM
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Well thanks, and again, it's not me. My 16ks never show the "clipping" sign on the xt, and don't sound like the are breaking up.It just kind of reinforced an idea I had after a conversation I had yesterday. I've thought since Danny Shields wound me a real thin SB PU that I liked the best, that even the fat old SHoBud pickups from the late 60s on were way overwound. After reading Bob Carlucci's posts of using even thinner ones and talking to Bill at Bill Lawrence, a lot of stuff gelled. Of course I don't use ohmage as anything more than comparing similar pickups with similar wire size. Maybe many more windings "helped out" amps 40-50 years ago, and they're no longer necessary. I know the old PUs that came stock on my Professional (that were gone a long time ago) had coil taps. I did use them one by one as replacements on my old PIII, but I had an Ernie Ball Volume pedal during those years that killed 20% of my signal ROTB. and now with my Hilton "Preamped" VP, I think they'd probably distort. My 16ks don't seem to. Similarly possibly large "emmons style" magnets. I tried a JW TT to start with and don't care for the tone at all over stock thin magnet SBs. Not for any "distortion". They just didn't seem o have the "bite" I have always been used to with thinner magnets. So. Is there a comparison between different pickups in "volts" or "microvolts"? Is there a way to measure it? I'd call Bill, but I dont want to interrupt him and can't seem to get off the phone. Off to check out a Behringer 112 V amp. EJL |
David Mason
Member From: Cambridge, MD, USA
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posted 10 June 2006 10:39 AM
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I think it was DiMarzio in the 70's that started using the idea of "more power=better tone" as a marketing ploy, I guess because certain good guitarists did find that overdriving certain tube preamps sounded good. It set off a bizarre arms race among pickup and guitar manufacturers that have culminated in Mesa Boogie Triple Rectifiers and other amps that actually feed three or more preamps directly into each other, making noises that sound like how an electric chair must feel. If you want to use most guitar effects with a "normal", 16K steel pickup, it does help to attenuate the signal with something or another. I think maybe that's why so many steel guitarists dislike effects - they don't realize that they're frying the poor little thing's innards and that those horrible rasping noises aren't really what's supposed to be coming out. |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 10 June 2006 11:23 AM
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quote:
So. Is there a comparison between different pickups in "volts" or "microvolts"? Is there a way to measure it?
Yes, but it will be meaningless from player to player. Different picking techniques, different amps, different hookups, all this leads to meaningless statistics. That said, "high output" pickups will put out over 500 millivolts. Old "thin wound" pickups rarely put out more than 250 millivolts.One thing that heavy wound pickups caused was the false conclusion on the part of some people that pots robbed you of highs. Bullhockey! It was really the high-output (high-impedance) pickups that stole the highs. I've said it before (but it bears repeating) that all those screaming, tinny, trebly, shreiking, searing Telecasters out there have pots too...and they certainly don't seem to lack any highs! Of course... "Common sense is sometimes not so common."  [This message was edited by Donny Hinson on 10 June 2006 at 11:26 AM.] |
John Bechtel
Member From: Nashville, Tennessee,U.S.A.
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posted 10 June 2006 10:48 PM
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With all due respect, I think Jack meant to say that the recommended height for an L-710 P/U is 3/16” below the string! I rather think that 3/8” would be almost impossible to obtain on most PSG's!------------------
“Big John”
a.k.a. {Keoni Nui}
Current Equipment
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