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Author
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Topic: Would you really use a JBL D-130 over a
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Gary Steele
Member From: Orient, Ohio, USA
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posted 17 August 2006 05:25 PM
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Black Widow. Do you guys that really have good ears really hear that much difference in the two. A guy told me yesterday a D-130 Origional only handles 50 Watts. I'm thinking if some of these newer speakers really sound that close and they probably handle a lot more power, It seems that would be the way to go. I want to get down to one good set of closed backs and play play play. What is your ideas?
Thanks!! |
Ricky Davis
Moderator From: Spring, Texas USA
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posted 17 August 2006 05:56 PM
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Gary; if you have a D-130 original(not reconed)that you don't want to use...I can certainly use it(email me your price sshawaiian@austin.rr.com ).
I do hear a difference...and I also use a K-130 that handles a little more power; but has the same voicing. I don't play loud or play in a loud band and use them to record mostly and the range and voicing is very pleasing to my ears. All the other speakers I've tried; are just a little harsh to my ears.
Ricky |
Robert Parent
Member From: Savage, MN
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posted 18 August 2006 04:29 AM
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A JBL over a BW you ask, any day of the week in my opinion. I never cared for the sound of BW speakers although you will find people that actually do like them. |
mtulbert
Member From: Plano, Texas 75023
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posted 18 August 2006 05:44 AM
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A friend of mine got a Walker Stereo Steel with JBL's Probably reconed but JBL's. He brought over a cabinet and we A-B'd one of his cabinets with one of mine which contained Black Widows. We both the sound was sweeter and better in the JBL's than the Widows. I guess it boils down to what you are looking for, but MY BW's morphed into JBL's!!! Mark |
Jim Palenscar
Member From: Oceanside, Calif, USA
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posted 18 August 2006 05:47 AM
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I play with both simultaneously with my Stereo Steel rig. There is a big difference between the 2 speakers- the JBL is real clear and a titch more "thin" and the the BW adds a bit of body but is a bit more muddy. That being said- they both have thier place and sound good together. |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 18 August 2006 06:41 AM
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I think it's whatever you find that you personally like. Years ago (mid 70's) I had a Twin and I removed the 12" D120F's and put in a K130. It made a drastic improvement for my 71 PP Emmons steel. Recently, I decided to sell the D120F's and I connected my rack system, that has a MosValve 500 power amp to the speakers to check them out before selling. The D120F's made my Franklin sound like the old Fender 2000 I had - lots of mids and highs. I have Peavey 1203's in my Nashville 112E clone speaker enclosures and they are much fuller and better overall frequency response. Actually I like the 1203's better than the 1501 BW speaker that Peavey uses in Steel Amps. The drawback to some of the older JBL's is the power handling capability. |
David Doggett
Member From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA
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posted 18 August 2006 09:14 AM
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I think the consensus is that JBLs are one of the best sounding speakers for steel. They have a special clarity. It is true that they only handle about 60 watts each. But that is in an open-back cab. Using a closed-back cab gives them substantially more power handling ability - two of them were commonly used in a closed back cab with 100 watt tube amps for bass, which is much more demanding than steel. Also, the fact that you are using two speakers doubles the power handling. So two of them in closed back cabs will probably handle 200 watts for guitar. In addition, you probably use a volume pedal. If your pedal is backed off about half-way as you attack your notes, that is like cutting the amp power in half. So you can probably safely use a 300 watt solid-state amp (NV1000) for steel with two JBLs in closed back cabs. I have used such an arrangement for steel with a 180 watt Fender Super Twin on 10 (which for tube power is about equivalent to a NV1000) with no problems.One of the reasons a lower power speaker like the old JBLs sounds so good is that it is a lower power speaker. This is especially true if the speaker is not being pushed near its top power handling range, which is mostly the case with clean steel playing. Higher power handling speakers just can't sound as good at low volumes (but may sound great at high volume). By using multiple lower power speakers, you get the best of both worlds - they sound good at low volume, but can handle high volume as well. That's why stacks of multiple lower volume speakers sound better than one high volume speaker. All that being said, the Black Widow is a great speaker. You can't go wrong either way. But I think most people would give the nod to the JBLs, as long as they are setup to handle the power, which using two in closed-back cabs would seem to do. ------------------
Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards |
Curt Langston
Member From: ***In the shadows of Tulsa at Bixby, USA***
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posted 18 August 2006 01:40 PM
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A lot of the clarity of the JBL comes from the closer voice coil gap. It is true that the JBL is probably more "sensitive", but there is a trade off, in that the JBL will not handle as much raw power. Closer voice coil gap is not as forgiving in extreme speaker excursion, as noted in most concert or jam sessions.The Black Widow is probably a tad less "sensitive", however, it has a proven track record as a work horse. LOUD and clear. Night after night. If you overheat, and blow one, you are really pushing it hard. Even then, you can pop in a new replacement basket. My 2 cents...........
JBL for recording, or at smaller, lower volume venues. Black Widow for the reliability of the live playing situations.
 [This message was edited by Curt Langston on 18 August 2006 at 01:42 PM.] |
Andy Zynda
Member From: Wisconsin
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posted 18 August 2006 03:13 PM
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I like the sound of a Black Widow.
I LOVE the sound of a D130f, above any other speaker, except possibly certain altecs and webers, which come close.
Same for 12" speakers. D120f's are so sweet.
-andy- |
James Morehead
Member From: Durant, Oklahoma, USA
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posted 18 August 2006 05:04 PM
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A BW speaker sounds nice, depending on the rig it's used with. I like the JBL D's and K's over the BW speakers, and I like my Altec 418B's over the JBL's, though. I play a Shobud Professional with original single coil, coil tap pickups through a '70 BF'ed twin reverb / with Jan Philips 7581A power tubes. I do believe, however, a BW would sound tremendous with a different type guitar/pickup setup---maybe over a JBL or Altec. Also, my guitar may not sound as good (to me) played through a different amp. Also, solid state vs. tube amp can't be ignored in the tone equation, either. There now, I believe I just kicked over the beehive to count the bees!! YEEE HAWWW!! |
chuck abend
Member From: Kansas City,Mo.64155 U.S.A.
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posted 20 August 2006 09:40 AM
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I am using JBL's in an evans hybrid and in a
walker stereo steel.When I play 3 lower stgs
and kick the volume up I get a light distortion in both systems.I've tried all
settings and it's still there.I bypassed all
effects,with no help.I have one 4 ohm black
widow I can substitute and try,but the ohmage is too low.Any Ideas? Chuck Abend |
Donny Hinson
Member From: Balto., Md. U.S.A.
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posted 21 August 2006 04:50 PM
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quote:
A guy told me yesterday a D-130 Origional only handles 50 Watts.
Actually, I think it was more like 25 watts! You have to remember that when this speaker was designed, a "maxed-out killer amp" was only about 30 watts! It's a great speaker for real low levels and recording, especially if you like sweet mids. (It's got some really sweet mids, and wonderful transient response.) But, being designed over 50 years ago, it's pretty anemic for today's music demands. I had a few of 'em, and eventually gave them all away years ago when I realized I'd go broke just continually reconing them. |
Al Sato
Member From: Texas Hill Country
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posted 22 August 2006 04:57 PM
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Jack Stoner wrote:>I think it's whatever you find that you >personally like.
...
>Recently, I decided to sell the D120F's and >I connected my rack system, that has a >MosValve 500 power amp to the speakers to >check them out before selling. The D120F's >made my Franklin sound like the old Fender >2000 I had - lots of mids and highs. And I bought those incredible speakers. To me, it's a question of what you play, what amp you use and what your personal preferences are. I put one of them in a BF Deluxe Reverb and use it for my Telecaster. The other one is there in case something happens to my first one, but I have a SF Deluxe Reverb that could use it, too. It's a wonderful speaker. I use it for my combined rig - Telecaster and Stringmaster D-8. Nothing but tonal nirvana, and nothing but compliments on my tone. This was a great transaction - both of us are happy and so it's a win-win. Thanks, Jack! Al ------------------
So many stringed instruments, so little time... |
Jim Sliff
Member From: Hermosa Beach California, USA
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posted 22 August 2006 05:17 PM
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As stated, JBL D130's are capable of 60 watts in an open-back cab with a TUBE amp - more power with wsolid-state, since it's harmonically not as diverse and one reason for the higher-wattage of many solid state amps compared to tube (I'm oversiplifying, so please no flames).Personally, I think the Weber California 15 with a paper dust cap outperforms the D130, K130 or Black Widow. Clean, but not harsh with a nice warm, round tone once it's broken in. Probably my favorite "clean tone" speaker. |
David Wren
Member From: Placerville, California, USA
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posted 24 August 2006 12:02 PM
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Well, I have a variation on this question... keeping in mind I am a long-time BW fan...I just ordered what appears to be Bobbe's last Fender amp...(not sure why, but that's what he said)...a reissued '65 Twin Custom 15... this comes with the new 15" Emminence "remake" of the D130.... curious how these Emminence speakers stack up to the orginal JBL?.... with that said, I'm already thinking of putting in a BW  Way back in the late sixties I ran a Sho~Bud D10 through a Fender bassman, fender reverb, and a D130 in a closed cab..... I traded this for a Standel with 2 12" EV SROs, liked that.... but when I got my Session 500 with the BW.... well I still have it! But now that I'm going back to a tube amp... I willing to be as open minded to the sound change as I can (pretty good for a old geezer like me ) Thoughts? ------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com |
Jack Stoner
Sysop From: Inverness, Florida
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posted 24 August 2006 02:17 PM
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Al, glad you like the speakers. If I were still playing lead I wouldn't have sold them. They would make my Tele come alive. |
David Wren
Member From: Placerville, California, USA
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posted 25 August 2006 09:26 AM
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Well, according to FedEx tracking web site.... I'll be getting my '65 reissue Twin Custom 15 today! If you see me asking Mike Brown for BW basket order info... you'll know my verdict on the Eminence D130 clone ------------------
Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; Twin Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com |
Bobby Lee
Sysop From: Cloverdale, North California, USA
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posted 25 August 2006 10:26 AM
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quote:
As stated, JBL D130's are capable of 60 watts in an open-back cab with a TUBE amp - more power with wsolid-state, since it's harmonically not as diverse and one reason for the higher-wattage of many solid state amps compared to tube (I'm oversiplifying, so please no flames).
Not flaming, but you can blow out a D-130 with a 100 watt solid state amp. Many of us blew out the original K-130's that came in our Webb amps. The K-130-4 was rated for 125 watts, and the Webb claimed 225 watts output. I measured the Webb into a passive 4 ohm load and it peaked at 197 watts.------------------
 Bobby Lee (a.k.a. b0b) - email: quasar@b0b.com - gigs - CDs, Open Hearts
Williams D-12 E9, C6add9, Sierra Olympic S-12 (F Diatonic)
Sierra Laptop S-8 (E6add9), Fender Stringmaster D-8 (E13, C6 or A6) My Blog [This message was edited by b0b on 25 August 2006 at 10:27 AM.] |
David Wren
Member From: Placerville, California, USA
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posted 30 August 2006 04:19 PM
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I've only used my new Fender Custom 15 in the house, but I may have to take back my misgivings re: the Eminence 15" Speaker! Damn sweet sounding amp/speaker combo. I'll let folks know how it does on the open road in a couple weeks. I had to change my signature
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Dave Wren
'96 Carter S12-E9/B6,7X7; NV 112; Fender Twin Custom 15 ('65 reissue); Session 500s; Hilton Pedal; Black Box
www.ameechapman.com
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