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  FENDER SHOWMAN DUO

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Author Topic:   FENDER SHOWMAN DUO
Kris Oka
Member

From: San Francisco, CA, USA

posted 20 August 2006 06:25 PM     profile     
i HAVE A FRIEND WHO WANTS TO SELL HIS FENDER SHOWMAN DUO TUBE AMP. WOULD THIS AMP BE GOOD FOR STEEL GUITAR? iT IS RATHER BIG AND HAS TWO COMPONENTS.
Brad Bechtel
Moderator

From: San Francisco, CA

posted 20 August 2006 07:05 PM     profile     
Moved to Electronics from No Peddlers.

I think it would be a fine amp for steel if you don't mind the weight.

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Brad's Page of Steel
A web site devoted to acoustic & electric lap steel guitars

Justin Griffith
Member

From: Taylor, Texas, USA

posted 20 August 2006 08:21 PM     profile     
I have a Dual Showman Reverb head used with a single 15" cab loaded with a 8 ohm PV black widdow. It is simply the finest sounding amp I have ever seen or had. I think you owe it to yourself to try it out. If it has the double 15 cabnet it may be too heavy. Try it with one or two single 15" cabs.
Some folks say 100 watts is not enough. I disagree. YMMV
Justin

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Justin Griffith
D-10 Sho-Bud Professional, Fender Dual Showman reverb, NV400, Rv-3, Matchbox 7A, L-120

[This message was edited by Justin Griffith on 20 August 2006 at 08:23 PM.]

Ron Randall
Member

From: Dallas, Texas, USA

posted 20 August 2006 09:02 PM     profile     
A great amp for steel. 4 6L6 power tubes and 15 inch JBL's.
Dave Mudgett
Member

From: Central Pennsylvania, USA

posted 20 August 2006 09:24 PM     profile     
I love Dual Showmans, I have a '69 Dual Showman Reverb Head that I use with a JBL or EV cabinet, it's great for both pedal steel and jazz guitar.

Be aware that there are different versions of the basic Fender Showman amp, which was always a separate head/cabinet amp. This site spells out the differences: http://www.ampwares.com/ffg/ - but here's a brief summary:

The Showman started out as a white-tolex, brown control panel Showman and Dual Showman, as used by Dick Dale, the king of the surf guitar. Then came the black-tolex and black panel Showman and Dual Showman, which is a different circuit. Then came the black-tolex and silver-panel Showman, Dual Showman, and Dual Showman Reverb. There were changes in moving to the silver-panel circuit, and the Dual Showman Reverb is yet different from the no-reverb versions.

The Showman normally came with a single 8 ohm speaker, while the Dual Showman normally came with 2 8-ohm speakers wired in parallel for a total of 4 ohms. The Dual Showman Reverb is a Twin Reverb chassis in a head configuration, a separate cabinet with 2 8-ohm speakers.

Each of these amps is different in a significant way, and the value of the amp depends exactly on which model you are talking about and its condition and originality. But, to my tastes, any of them could be made to work for steel with an external reverb unit for the no-reverb models.

Edited to add - any of these are pretty clean unless turned up pretty loud - that's why I like them for pedal steel and jazz guitar. So, if one was looking for a more distorted sound for lap steel or blues/rock guitar, they might not be the ticket unless you really want to play loud, again to my tastes.

[This message was edited by Dave Mudgett on 20 August 2006 at 09:29 PM.]

Kris Oka
Member

From: San Francisco, CA, USA

posted 20 August 2006 09:56 PM     profile     
Thanks all for the info. Past threads have always seem to prefer tube amps over solid state. I have a Peavey Nashville 112 but in my apartment I practice on a Roland Microcube. I believe my friends amp is the Dual Showman Reverb because I saw the reverb switch. And you are absolutely correct the speaker unit is heavy and unwieldy. Perhaps a single speaker would be OK. The tolex is well worn but I understand that it can be replaced or changed. Any suggests as to how much this amp might be worth? I hope I can call upon you again when i get more details from my friend. He claims it was top of the line way back when and it is a collector's item because it is not being made anymore.
Keith Cordell
Member

From: Atlanta

posted 21 August 2006 03:41 AM     profile     
Any earlier Fender amp is valuable, these days they are appreciating at an alarming rate. The tone of this amp can be had though by acquiring an Alembic F2-B preamp; it is the showman circuit. There are a few steelers who will probably chime in about it, I have been on the lookout for one for a while but never seem to have the cash when someone has the unit, alas...
Cartwright Thompson
Member

From: Portland, Maine, USA

posted 21 August 2006 05:07 AM     profile     
Keith,
There's one on eBay now.
kris,
If you get the Showman, try using two 6550's instead of the four 6L6's. You'll need to beef-up a couple of resisters (no big deal), but the sound is awesome and you get a better impedance match if you use one speaker (preferably a D-130).
Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 21 August 2006 05:32 AM     profile     
"The tone of this amp can be had though by acquiring an Alembic F2-B preamp; it is the showman circuit. "

It will ge close, but it misses the entire power section, and that's where a lot of the tube amp "tone" is - phase inverter, bias circuit, filter caps, power tubes....all have a huge affect, and a preamp won't get you there.

Regarding the 6550 change, there are other things that need to be done as well - auxiliary filament transformer for one, unless you change the power transformer. 6550's draw more heater current, and can overheat the power transformer. You'd also likely need to beef up the filter caps. It's something best left to a good amp tech.

As far as the amp overall - it's a Twin Reverb circuit in a head/cabinet form. Don't let the "100 watt" thing deceive you; there is a huge difference in sound quality between 100 watts of tube amp output and 4-500 watts of solid-state output. It will keep up with, if not out-scream, a solid state high powered amp, depending on the speakers.

IMO the tone of tubeamps is still far superior to solid-state, however the weight and maintenance of them can be a disadvantage. the choice isconvenience or tone, and I prefertone; soI have about 20 tube amps of varying sizes and types for different applications.

A Dual Showman Reverb (not "Duo") is a tremendous steel amp.

Kris Oka
Member

From: San Francisco, CA, USA

posted 21 August 2006 09:04 AM     profile     
Thanks all for the help. He has not used it in ten years so I'll have to see if it still works. The case is well worn. Any idea how much I should pay? He is moving back to Hawaii after 45 years and anxious to get rid of it. Thanks in advance. Kris
David Doggett
Member

From: Philadelphia, Pennsylvania, USA

posted 21 August 2006 09:24 AM     profile     
My silver-face Dual Showman Reverb is the most used of all my amps. It has the power and tube tone of a Twin Reverb. But splitting the weight between a 46 lb. head cab, and separate speaker cabs is much easier for me to deal with than a single 80 lb. combo. I think these days among steelers, the Showman head is more sought after than the Twin combo, but there are fewer of them out there on the market. My 100 watt Dual is easily as loud as my 200 watt solid state NV400. I much prefer the tube tone, especially at high volume.

That big stock closed-back speaker cabinet with 2x15 probably sounds incredible with pedal steel, especially if it has two JBL D130fs. However, it was designed to be able to handle bass, and is much bigger and heavier than needed for the frequency range of steel. I play my Dual through two 15" JBL D130s in small, lightweight separate closed-back cabinets. This is versatile because the speakers can be pointed in different directions to cover big or odd shaped rooms, and can be stacked on top of each other for a small footprint. I also have a single heavy duty Eminence 15" in a medium sized closed-back cabinet with a darker sound. An advantage of an amphead is that you can use different speakers for different sounds - ultimate flexibility. Another advantage of a separate amp head and speaker cabs is that you can keep the amp next to you for tweaking the controls, and can put the speakers anywhere they need to go. I prefer them some distance behind me in the back line with other amps and speakers, to help me balance my volume with the stage sound.

Bottom line is that a Dual Showman is one of the best amp investments a steeler can make - and they are getting more and more hard to find.

A silver-face Dual Showman Reverb is worth $500 working, maybe $300 not working - double that if it is a black-face model. The 2x15 speaker cab is worth $400 or more, if the speakers are working. But this is a bit of a problem, since you don't really need that huge cabinet, and will probably want to buy a set of smaller cabinets for the speakers. Nevertheless, working JBL 15s are selling for close to $200 each.

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Student of the Steel: Zum uni, Fender tube amps, squareneck and roundneck resos, tenor sax, keyboards

[This message was edited by David Doggett on 21 August 2006 at 09:32 AM.]

Kris Oka
Member

From: San Francisco, CA, USA

posted 21 August 2006 07:15 PM     profile     
Dave, thanks for the information. It has been very helpful. I believe it is a silver faced Dual Reverb. I like the ideal of two small speaker cabinets. Now, I have to go find out and see if it still works. Kris
Cartwright Thompson
Member

From: Portland, Maine, USA

posted 14 September 2006 03:56 PM     profile     
Concerning the 6550 swap. An auxiliary filament transformer is not needed as we're talking about using only two power tubes and the twin/showman power transformer can handle the filament current with no problems.
Also, there was never a blackface Dual Showman with reverb.
Andy Zynda
Member

From: Wisconsin

posted 15 September 2006 06:22 AM     profile     
What would be the point of going from 4 6L6's to 2 6550's?
You'd be losing power.
??
-andy-
Jim Sliff
Member

From: Hermosa Beach California, USA

posted 15 September 2006 06:45 AM     profile     
Andy - nothing. You are correct. IT just gives it a different sound, and 6550's tend to have more headroom so it play "cleaner". But it's a LOT of work to install 6550's ( 2 or 4) in an amp like this, and I can't see any benefit either. Heck, just buy an SVT head or some other bass rig - they actually will work quite well for steel.
Cartwright Thompson
Member

From: Portland, Maine, USA

posted 15 September 2006 09:01 AM     profile     
If you're using it with an 8ohm load (like a D-130), using two power tubes causes a much better impedance match. The Dual Showman or a twin output transformer wants to see 4 ohms.
My '66 Twin has a D-130 and two 6550's. It is not a big job at all, just beef up your screen resistors. The twin's power transformer has no problem with the increased filiment current ( because there are only two power tubes- put four in and the thing would burn up). The loss in output is actually less than what you lose with an 8 ohm load on four 6L6's. I've had mine set up like this for about 6 years and never had a problem, just big fat tone.

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