The debate regarding speakers is interesting and only shows one thing---tone is subjective and there's no right or wrong---just whatever suits the one playing through the amp! Adding the flexibility for a buyer to provide their own speaker will be a nice touch.

I would also suggest you contact Mr Ted Weber of Veber/VST for speakers---his offerings are right up there with the quality and dedication to tone that Jim Webb offered. I believe our own Gaylon Matthews is well acquainted with Ted which might be partially why he has considered venturing into the PSG world. Weber/VST has a wonderful JBL D-130 clone and even offers it with a paper dust cap for those who disliked the aluminum cap normally associated with the D- and E-series JBL's.

I sincerely hope your labor of love here will be rewarding--it seems you have a good support base if nothing more. With Brad Sarno onboard and the stellar players who will eventually use these amps there will be no shorage of feedback and input. Peavey, Fender and the other mass manufacturers cannot "afford" to produce the tones a Webb can---it will still be the benchmark of steel guitar tones!

1. A new Webb 614-E head unit in the aluminum chassis
2. A new 15" speaker cabinet, w/ sealed aluminum cabinet w/ adjustable ports)
3. A Webb 614-E Combo with an E-130 JBL
4. A Webb 614-E Combo with the new Kappalite 15" by Eminence.

So basically, I had a 614-E head unit powering 3 different cabinet/speaker combinations. For reference, my normal amp is a 1980ish Fender Vibrosonic Reverb, w/ a Weber Ceramic California w/ aluminum dust cap).

First: I have to say all these rigs kicked butt, and I'd take any one of them if Tom would sell me one. Here are my conclusions:

My first "testing" was with a 614-E head connected to the JBL E-130 that was in a Webb standard wooden cabinet. (I start here for people who have this combination already). This sounded very nice, like one would guess. I noticed very "scooped" mids from the JBL, with nice round full clear bass and smooth creamy highs. Ever so slightly distressing to the ear (I like a crispy sound, and it's hard to get this sound and still have it still be smooth to the ear; not an easy task).
As a note: the JBL was in a combo cabinet, but without the amp head in it. It weighed about the same as a complete(head in it) 614-E combo with the new Eminence Kappalite speaker. So, in other words, the weight savings from the Kappalite amounted to about the weight of the entire head. NICE!

Second: I took a 614-E head unit and hooked it to a standard Webb wooden cabinet with the Eminence Kappalite. I agree with Tom that
this speaker sounds a lot like the JBL. The first thing I noticed was that the mids were not as scooped out, this was fixable mostly by just using the knobs on the amp. No
problem there. I found this speaker to be a little harsher on the highs than the JBL was, but to be fair, this speaker had only like 1-2 hours of playing time on it, i.e., not broken in at all. I'm a firm believer in breaking in speakers, you can't really judge one until it's good and used. That said, I told Tom that I'd gladly take the amp back home and break it in for him, you know, do him a favor The plusses of the Kappalite speaker, sonically speaking, were an increase in tight bass response and cutting mids. This speaker really honks in a good way, it's really "IN YO FACE" which I like.

Third: I then hooked the 614-E head to Tom's new aluminum-sealed back cabinet with the Eminence Kappalite. This cab has adjustable ports, which I didn't mess with. I left them completely closed so the cabinet was totally sealed. I thought this cab sounded the best by quite a bit. It had all the bass, mids, highs, all in crispy detail, and
NONE of the harshness of the same speaker in an open-back wooden cabinet. This surprised me. This cabinet rocked. It cut so deep and penetrated to the center of my brain. The
bass was very bell like, and the highs were smooth and creamy, still had that edgy treble quality that I had dialed into the amp, but it rounded any harshness out of
it. My ears loved it; so smooth, yet punchy, crispy, loud and honkin'.

So that's my input, and what a blast to have this opportunity. Thanks again Tom. I can't wait to get one. I'd go with the traditional single unit amp, w/ the Kappalite speaker in it; mostly because I don't need an amp broke into two units. However, the piggy-back head and the aluminum cabinet would probably be the sweetest sounding rig.

quote:

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When did 'breaking in speakers' become necessary?

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Barry, that is one of those things like "cabinet drop" (which most people did not even "here" until they "saw" a slight fragment of drop in the meter of a Korg, or strobe tuner) that is highly overrated. And over worried about.

Breaking in a speaker is supposed to soften the cone, and make the amp sound mellower or "sweeter". Some folks swear by it.

I say "Just play that thing, and quit worrying about it!"

[This message was edited by Curt Langston on 21 September 2006 at 07:13 PM.]

I believe Tom is really thinking about Producing the other amp models. I think he's just starting with a run of 614-Es. I kept the EQ turned off also, but mainly because I only had the amps for 2 days. I wanted to find a likable tone, and then run the different cabs of it without changing settings. I fiddled w/ the EQ a bit, but figured it'd take some time getting used to it to benefit. But that in/out switch for the EQ section is smooth.

I agree completely w/ curt's last statement.

And, I believe there's plenty of markey for these amps, and it's my bet Tom will have no problem selling everything he can get put together.

[This message was edited by Mike Vallandigham on 22 September 2006 at 08:11 AM.]

Why not offer a specail price for "breaking in" a speaker at the factory? That way you get the sound right out of the box.

Regarding the graphic EQ on the Webb, Jimmy Webb told me also that he never cared for using it. He liked having it there for problematic instruments or acoustic situations, but the amp circuit is much more simple and pure with it bypassed. I never used it on my 614-E. If you look at the circuit, you can see that by using the graphic EQ, you subject the signal to more active stages, somewhat degrading the signal path and diminishing the sound quality, at least in theory. I always preferred the sound with it off.

Thanks Tom for keeping these cool amps alive!!!

Brad

[This message was edited by Brad Sarno on 22 September 2006 at 03:25 PM.]

[This message was edited by Jay Ganz on 03 October 2006 at 12:27 PM.]

506-MTG206N04

Search for that part number at Mouser.com. This is a very nice, gold contact toggle switch. The toggle bat is a bit shorter, but all the rest should be perfect. These switches are far more sensitive to soldering heat, so do be careful when wiring them up. The old Carlings that were stock in the Webb were very sturdy and rugged, they just lacked the good electrical contacts for low voltage audio signals.

Brad

A new speaker will sound different that a broken-in speaker, and testing has been done proving the point. Guitar magazines have reviewed speakers, done break-in, and provided comments from the manufacturers...never has Eminence said in those articles that you don't need to break in a speaker. So why would they change their story now...and where have they published the information saying you DON'T need to break in a speaker?

Ted Weber is the most knowledgable source on this; pick up the phone and talk to him, you might learn something - but as a guitar player I was breaking in speakers in the 70's - we all were! We ran tape decks with repeat mode into an amp in the garage and let it run for a day. Still do with new amps, but now it's with an iPod! Makes a huge difference in the sound after a day or so of "playing time".

I will point out one difference - if you are buying an amp/speaker combination for squeaky-clean tones with lots of headroom, like for country steel, you will NOT notice break-in as much as someone who is playing a warmer setup where "running on the edge" of breakup - where you can distort things just by a subtle touch on your guitar's volume control (some guitars DO have volume controls...). A new speaker breaking up nearly always sounds harsh - it takes some playing time for them to bloom and warm up.

George, you're talking to guys at steel shops - and honestly, they probably won't know squat about speaker break-in because it's not something they would ever encounter. It's not as noticable an issue with steel guitar clean tones. It is a HUGE issue with 6-string guitar tones, especially in rock and blues. And it may have been "just recently discussed" here, but it's been talked about for years on 6-string forums.

There are differences in practical application of similar subjects between the steel and 6-string worlds, and speaker break-in is one of them.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 05 October 2006 at 04:49 PM.]

Now everyone is right!

------------------
Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Baldwin Crossover converted to SD-10, Evans SE200

It's in the middle ranges, where speakers are run on the edge of breakup, where the sound differences are most dramatic. The whole "break-in" concept is ancient news in the 6-string world, and a normal practice. Experienced players get new amps and use old speakers until they can break in the ones that came with the amp in a practice amp - you never take an out-of-the-box amp to a gig and expect it to sound decent.

------------------
Steelin' Greetings
Marco Schouten
Sho-Bud Baldwin Crossover converted to SD-10, Evans SE200

...so there YOU go. But again, Barry - most of your experience has centered on steel, correct? And as I said, it's not as big an issue with pure clean tones...so you wouldn't have been involved with it much, probably...unless you were talking about playing your steel through a '59 Bassman or something.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 06 October 2006 at 05:11 PM.]

It's a different situation with six-stringers...or steelers who play outside the country "norm". If you use your amp for overdriven sounds instead of a pedal, there will be a very apparent difference between fresh and broken-in mid-to-low power capability speakers.