i'm curious about a deluxe reverb for PSG live applications. the places i play, i don't need a ton of volume. and i sometimes double on tele. i don't really love the peavey 112 for tele, and my old blackface princeton reverb with a 12" gets dirty a little too quick.

i like the size of the deluxe reverb, and a reissue would take the worry out of bringing it to gigs and stuff. i'd also like to hear about silverfaces, as they are still sometimes found within financial reach.

i'd love to hear opinions on deluxe reverbs of all stripes: silverfaces, reissues, replacement speakers and mods that make them more steel-friendly, etc...

anyone with experiences with these things, lemme know what you have found out.

I believe the JBL speaker makes it usable for me to use with PSG.

Dave Z

[This message was edited by Dave Zirbel on 13 November 2006 at 01:19 PM.]

A DR can have a cleaner speaker, be biased colder for clean headroom, use 6L6's (but NOT a solid-state rectifier, please!!) - all benign mods. But at some point you'll hit the wall as far as volume goes.

hey jim sliff - you're recommending the weber cali for clean volume, eh? i have an email into ted weber describing my situation. see what he says and then maybe just go ahead and do it. have you heard anything about his "beam blocker"? today was the first i ever read anything about it. what's the word?

thanks again guys! keep it coming; i love this amp tweaker stuff.

Nick

PS: The Princeton Reverb in the picture is a '67 model. I let Linda use it with her Fender Stringmaster.

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 13 November 2006 at 08:46 PM.]

It's merely a speaker dustcap or other dome (we made them flat) that is attached to a thin strap that runs across the front of the speaker. It sits right in front of the very center of the speaker, where the highest "treble concentration" is focused. It lets the smoother treble frequencies disperse well, but kills the harsh "icepick" that comes from close-range listening.

my only beef is:
tubes tend to compress and slow the attack...fast passages get mushy and loose that articulated separation. they sag and "fart out" on lower frequencies as well

and don't forget a backup!

had my fenders fail on gigs many a time....pluggin the tele into the NV112.....guitar players coming up and sayin' "wow, what great tone, what you runnin?".....me says "peavey"...the NV112 has a great tone and will really keep up on a loud band......

ever try a lab series?
awesome SS tele amps......nice on steel too
some of those music mans are nice dual use amps as well...i think they employ some SS too.

what i want is a mix and match pre/power amp
SS->SS
Tube->>SS
SS->Tube
Tube->Tube

w/ FX loop & tuner out

[This message was edited by Rand Anderson on 14 November 2006 at 12:19 AM.]

There's another very real reason a high number of steel players use SS amps, and it's basically for the copious amounts of clean headroom needed to use a volume pedal for sustain and expression. A Deluxe Reverb will not properly provide this headroom. I used an original BF Deluxe on some gigs a few years ago, and it just wasn't enough power - even in the small rooms - for me. The lack of volume pedal sustain was frustrating, and I ended up playing to the amp - which is never a good thing.

[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 14 November 2006 at 06:21 AM.]

That can be true of the wrong rectifier, or bad tbes, or lousy (over) biasing - but a wel set-up tube amp is no less responsive and articulate than any SS amp. That's a misconception that's based on badly servced tube amps.

Audiophiles who use high-end stero equipment use tubes because of the articulation and added warmth.

We know a lot more now about how to properly set up and fine-tune tube amps tham we did 20 years ago. If ALL you want is clan tone with a sharp edge, SS is the way to go. If you want clean wth a warmer tone and much wider harmonic content, go tube.

And tube amp failures are no more common than SS amp failures...in fact, a properly serviced tube amp is at least as reliable as the average SS amp.

I like tubes best for warmth and colour, but sometimes a bit of dirt comes along with that. In the studio, there's nothing like tubes to warm up a vocal track. However, there are low amounts of distortion present in most cases, which is part and parcel of the tube character. In a lot of cases, this added character is beneficial to the track and gives it presence and punch. I'm not sure if this side-effect of tube usage is always conductive to the pedal steel. The early steel sounds were obviously coming from tube amps, but you can clearly hear a lot of break-up, especially when the player digs in hard. This sound definitely has character, but it may have been something that the steel player would have rectified had he the technology to do so. I find such early sounds charming and nostalgic, butI doubt the players did. In fact, a lot of players switched to SS as soon as the technology made itself available.

[This message was edited by Chris LeDrew on 14 November 2006 at 06:52 AM.]

------------------
Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

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Bob
upcoming gigs
My Website

bob hoffnar - i sent you an email off-line, my friend.

again, i'm trying to stay away from lugging two amps to a gig i'm doing double duty on. it's new york, so that means cabs, loading into tight spaces, etc... the "stage" i played on this weekend barely had room for me, the drummer, and a bass player. the two other guys were on the floor with the crowd!

i don't mind a little breakup; i like the notes to have a little bit of hair on them. and i have a podxt if i'm looking to record crystal clear stuff.

i have another question: anybody ever use an extension cab with a 15" in it along with the DR? would that solve some of the clean volume issue as the amp gets turned up?

the collective experience of the folks on this forum is a great resource, and it's so in line with what the web is best for. plus, it's pretty thrilling to see an email telling me someone has replied to the topic.

mike

Drew

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Drew Howard - website - Red guitars sound better!

http://cgi.ebay.com/Fender-Deluxe-Reverb-Blackface-64-Mod_W0QQitemZ170049644191QQihZ007QQcategoryZ38074QQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem

[This message was edited by Nick Reed on 14 November 2006 at 02:10 PM.]

was just thinking a 15" cab for when it's a bigger venue of somethin'... although bigger venues tend to mic my amps pretty good.

just thinking aloud.

to paraphrase our former (whoopee!) defense secretary, with every gig there are known knowns, and known unknowns, etc...

i may just try this experiment and see what happens. i'll keep the nashville 112 for awhile and switch back and forth each gig until there is some form of consensus.

mike

1. that many failures points to bad components or bad service. Bad wiring in the "house" can be overcome with line filters/voltage regulators, which I've used for years. With zero on-stage failures, even playing of generators.

2. Audiophile and guitar amp comparisons are completely valid. Same technology. The "warmth" argument is irrlevant, as you would ant it in a guitar amp as well - right?

3. People who moved to SS amps jumped back to tube as soon as decent tubes were available again, and it became common knowledge how to keep amps running properly AND how to set them up for certain instruments. At least in that "other" guitar world no one seems to want to talk about, that is very relevant.

4. I've NEVER had a rectifier failure, ever. I've never had an arced tube except for cheap Chinese and Russian ones, which I no longer use. Screen resistors, yes - which is why almost any tech replaces carbon with metal film, which you're not going to fry if you use the right values.

5. I've had more failures of SS amps and PA heads than anything else, personally. The only SS amp I own is a Fender GDec practice amp. For Steel I use a Vibroverb and/or ProReverb, which tonally will (IMO) blow any SS rig out of the water, and have no problem keping up volume-wise...or with headroom either.

You either have to know how to set them up or have tech who does. It's not rocket science.

And as far as ditching a bunch of SF amps - why? Was it the collectable value (which I understand) - or the BF-vs-SF, or "Pre-CBS" tonal myths (which from a player standpoint are not issues any longer, as it's simple to "even the playing field" except in the case of ultralinear amps)?

Failure.....I play 4 to 5 nights a week...crap breaks...that includes everything

You must have never lost a transformer. Blew out the OT tranny in my 63 1/2 Virboverb replaced it with old stancor radio/audiophile tranny....
try finding a replacement OT in Telluride, CO

now there's a 40 year old component you wouldn't change in a regular "servicing"

as for the pile of SF amps...they all sounded pretty darn good....but a few really really shine..... it's all based on blindfolded tone AB tests no cosmetic/collectible issues involved....i had my servant throw away the least favorable...i'll keep 1 out of 10 of them.....

AND...i don't subscribe to any belief about SS and tube amps.....i own all of the above and can speak from experience....these are things i figured out on my own by trial and error over thousands of gigs and countless recordings

a lot of top notch tele players go SS too...Jerry Reed, Ray Flacke, Albert Lee...

i would go to say that i wouldn't be digging the tubes on the lower register C6/B6 side of things.....try plugging a bass into a SF or BF Deluxe

[This message was edited by Rand Anderson on 14 November 2006 at 11:59 PM.]

I have. Biased at 20ma with 6L6's and a bass speaker. Works great for studio applications.

Sorry, I forgot one failure -- I did lose a PT in a 1955 Deluxe once.

As far as bad power, all I can say is be prepared - line conditioners, voltage regulators, ground-fault interrupters. I use all of them at times.