IMO stompox compressors 1) suck the life out of your tone, and 2) tend to very often become a crutch, where after a while a player loses all semblance or right-and dynamics - pick attack, angle etc. all go right out the window.

For good Tele tone, use the smallest amp you can for a venue and crank it up. THAT will give you compression, plus the bonus is an amp will always sound better driven hard.

That's one reason I had about 15 different amps I used regularly with Teles.

Think about all the classic James Burton string-popping stuff. There's no stompbox to be seen, in the studio or live

I'm surprised about stompboxes in studios, though - why use a $100 cheapo when you can have pipoint control over the attack and release, plus not suffer the tonal loss, using a Manley, Avalon or Neve....or the various Protools goodies? When my son was at NRG he said he never saw a stompbox compressor (although some younger bands wanted to use them, the engineers would talk them out of it) used...it was always done at mixdown. Once you've squeezed the signal going in, you can't "unsqueeze" it. That's why most guitar (or anything) is recorded dry. you can always "sweeten" it later, but if it's recorded with effects, that's the way it's going to stay...usually a bad idea.

I wonder if some of the stompboxes used aren't just for the musician's can mix, and not for what's going on "tape"?

And again - for live use IMO it's best to avoid "too much amp" sydrome, use the smallest all-tube amp you can crank up, and make it "breath". That'll give you all the compression you want.

[This message was edited by Jim Sliff on 27 November 2006 at 08:20 PM.]

See, now that's the thing I tried to avoid with the Tele. You can get all the pop and snap without squeezing the heck out of your tone just by using the right amp...and studio compression will do the same thing, because it's not looking at guitar impedance. It's looking at a dry track after the guitar is long gone. You don't add the compression while the track is being recorded - that's terrible recording technique. Recording dry is how it's usually done - effects can be added to the headphone mix, but you want to keep them OFF the track. You add them later to sweeten the tracks.

i feel the same about compressors
compression can go either way. i prefer stomp box b4 amplifier cuz then i can adjust my playing dynamics.

i also own 1176's, LA2A's, Tridents, 7110, etc....but for a tele i like the above mentioned pedals.

i don't think Jeff Baxter could be wrong either.

Jim, nothing personal, but you say

"You don't add the compression while the track is being recorded - that's terrible recording technique. Recording dry is how it's usually done - effects can be added to the headphone mix, but you want to keep them OFF the track. You add them later to sweeten the tracks"

I come from the school of--if it sounds right--, it is right, and I never hesitate to print with whatever compression, eq and effects sound great, with the exception of liking to have control over the verb (though we printed tonight with some spring reverb on the amp). I like to find sounds I like an commit. Of course, there are really no rules, but that is where I like to start.

OK, now I get to drive 30 miles home in a snowstorm...

[This message was edited by John Macy on 28 November 2006 at 09:05 PM.]

no way! same goes for enevelope filter or dynamic filter or compressor.....

they react to your picking dynamics.....if that aint there to start with it aint gonna be there later. you are no longer playing the effect as part of the instrument, but rather using the effect to control the dynamics of the instrument.

(Either way you go though, you'll probably have to practice, gee what's that giant sucking sound?)

I think what probably happened was, some guy plugged in one of the original compressors like an Orange Squeezer because he was trying to get more tube overdrive out of some sucky little amp that wouldn't DO it, maybe he had a contract with Kustom to use a tucked-and-rolled upholstered number or something. Anyway, by some happy accident that wierd synthetic compressed tone happened to sit well in the mix, for that one single song, and it then became a case of studio guitarists everywhere asking "How'd he DO that?" And then they had to do it too, then "My Old School", etc. And now Jim wants to use 15 tube amps to imitate a sound that some guy accidentally got once, when he was trying to imitate a tube amp with a stompbox.

Intelligent Design? It pays to remember that one of Leo Fender's main design parameters for the Telecaster was that it could be made by uneducated workers on commonly-available furniture-making equipment; it pays to remember that Jim Marshall's ONLY design parameter for his legendary 4X12 speaker cabinets was that they use as little wood as possibly needed to hold 4 speakers, what's a Toots-Thiele parameter?

People still have the muscles needed to control their tail, and some dinosaurs went extinct because the bones armoring their heads against predators got so thick that they couldn't move, and all the Tyrannosaurus Rex had to do was walk around it's head and BITE IT IN THE ASS.

UN-intelligent design, is more like it.

[This message was edited by David Mason on 29 November 2006 at 04:56 AM.]

No Rand - I said a wah is recorded on the track. Please look at the post again, thanks.

David - actually, most of those guys DO have a ton of amps. But regardless, there are certain times when you may want a specific effect FOR SURE and use a really squeezed tone like Skunk did. However, if you're playing more normal stuff, you generally record tracks dry. That's just normal studio procedure. And yes, there are exceptions - but the exceptions being mentioned are guys with thousands os sessions of experience. For the average player, a stompbox compressor can easily become crutch, and in THAT guy's once-every-2 years foray into the studio (that's not meant as an insult folks) engineers and producers often have to teach him that you don't string all your effects like you do live....there's a lower noise floor and far more control over the WHOLE mix if the guitars can be "altered" later.

That's one really great thing about Protools, for example. You can get all your tracks dry and then do endless "effect" tests to see what blends the best with the whole track. If you have the effect on the original track to start with, you have to make everything fit THAT sound, since you can't remove the effect.

Again, there are ALWAYS going to be some exceptions - but Mason, Baxter et al were/are king-of-the-hill guys and know how to get a specific sound, or have a "signature" sound (Albert Lee is another example). They have a LOT more to draw from than the average player and know how to use a tool to get something they know will work for the whole track. Most players are not that intuitive or experienced as far as recording (or mixing, or mastering) and are an engineer is doing them a disservice letting them record playing wiht all the stuff they use on stage. But if you KNOW you can nail the specific sound you want, sure - go for it. It's just that most don't.

And as far as the amp thing - you don't NEED 15 amps to be able to turn one up, get it to breath and compress. But I can't imagine an experienced player using a Twin turned up to "3" expecting anything but a dead sound. For live playing, 3-4 amps (and I'm talking about tube amp players - SS is another whole issue) will cover just about everything...anything more than that is for specific sounds. I DO have a lot, but they ARE for specific uses.

Brad

Sliff.
In regards to my "terrible recording technique" you accused me of, I never trust an engineer geek to add compression to my tracks afterwards. I have done over 4000 recording sessions in the last 30+ years and have never recorded any other way. What goes down on tape is as close to what I want it to sound like as I can get. The only thing you never print is the verbs. Printing compression is just fine and is done on virtually every vocal track and drum track and bass track to a degree during initial tracking. You may have your way of doing it, but don't make reference to my way as being "terrible". I don't appreciate that.

The tele compressor "snap" is an effect. A stomp box is an effect.....

The Keely, Ross, Orange Squeezer types can be bought from various 'boutique' pedal makers - at 'boutique' prices...

The MXR compressor is much more affordable, is a 'classic' - but basically only has one sound.

The Boss CS-3 is the one used by lots of country musicians to get 'that' sound (snapping & pumping Tele), but some people say it adds to much noise and steals tone in bypass mode (only hearsay - no personal experience). There are a few 'mods' for the CS-3 to get rid of the problems.

DOD and Digitech both offer quite affordable stomp box compressors in the same quality range as the CS-3, a bit more versatile than the MXR.

The Line 6 Constrictor IMHO is the worst sounding and noisiest stomp box compressor on the market - hands off that one!

Terry

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Mullen RP D10 /8x5 / MSA Classic 8x4 Nashville 112 x 2 / American Tele and Fender
Hotrod Deville 2x12's
Thank God for music.

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